<p>OP should be able to make some money by tutoring or babysitting initially. There are a lot of families in NYC that would pay good money to have a Columbia student tutor their kids - $50-100/hour. Babysitting is also a good way of earning extra money ($10-20). Columbia doesn’t have classes on Fri, students take the opportunity to do some internship. I wouldn’t be surprised if OP could make 5-10K a year in NYC.</p>
<p>m2ck-
Where do your family members’ companies recruit for interns and new employees? Yes they all probably start with similar pay, but they have to make the cut and get noticed first, and in this day and age getting met at a campus recruiting session or getting their resumes selected for review or for an interview is a tough hoop to jump through. Perhaps not as much for our lucky engineering kids, but certainly for non stem kids, I would think.</p>
<p>In regards to eng’g and CS students, they do campus recruitment at flagships, better known privates, and strong-non-flagship publics. They tend to go where the programs are large because there are more fish in the pondl. </p>
<p>That doesn’t mean that a grad from a small program has no chance at a job. It just means that the company may not have sent a rep there for recruitment.</p>
<p>The name of the school is not a biggie at all when getting selected for an interview or internship (or BTW…for REU summer campus research).</p>
<p>There are hundreds of colleges with CS and eng’g. The top schools we hear about do not produce enough grads to fill all the jobs. Besides, companies aren’t “wowed” by a number of those grads anyway. </p>
<p>Social skills are very important. Some kids who’ve followed a rather predictable route to a top school are lacking in social skills. Those grads aren’t desired because companies need techies who can present at meetings, present to the customer, etc. </p>
<p>I got this PM from a MechE dad whose child will be an eng’g student this fall (I did ask permission to post):</p>
<p>*I manage a team of 100+ engineers from Universities all over the world. It is interesting to see the correlation between the “quality” of the University they attended and on-the-job performance. There isn’t one, laziness seems to be the common denominator for bad engineers. Every few years we recruit high-tier university engineer graduates and they rarely do very well, certainly not any better than engineers from traditional universities. Interesting…</p>
<p>I had dinner last night with one of my geologists that attended Colby College in Maine. He said he went there because his parents could afford it and they would be “laughed at” if they had sent their child to a public university. He said he was raised (in Vermont) to believe that ALL public universities are party schools and to be avoided at all costs…ridiculous*
*</p>
<p>DS’s ivy league CS roommates and friends made in excess of $20K in their summer jobs at places like Google. Not just one or two of them, but most of them. That kind of money can go a long way towards minimizing debt. (I don’t know if those kind of opportunities would be as available as a student at UF.)</p>
<p>Some of you might not know that the University of Florida is trying to kill its Computer Science Department.</p>
<p>[Engineering</a> College chairman blasts cuts as wrong time, wrong place | Gainesville.com](<a href=“http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120411/ARTICLES/120419892]Engineering”>http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120411/ARTICLES/120419892)</p>
<p>
Yes, there’s that. Previously OP wanted to be a Creative Writing major (advertising copywriting), and then a French major. </p>
<p>Is there a non-custodial parent in the picture that had to fill out information for the CSS form?</p>
<p>JimSauce, the John Jay scholars have access to a lot of extra internship opportunities.</p>
<p>I do think Cpt. bring up an important point about potentially splitting the debt with your mom. How would she feel about that?</p>
<p>I noticed, too, when I searched your posts for information, that you also applied to NYU. Clearly New York appeals to you.</p>
<p>As someone who gets the appeal of being in NY for this part of your life, I would think it over before I passed that up. Education is more than just the classroom, imho. </p>
<p>Good luck to you.</p>
<p>I would read the link spurster posted. Doesn’t sound good for CS in FL.</p>
<p>I have both Bachelors and Phd in CS from a state flagship. At the time I was graduating our department was just starting to come out of a racial scandal that made some professors leave several years earlier. While the state flagship is a decent school, it was not the best situation.</p>
<p>Anyway, there is truth to it that it is harder to get foot in the door if you don’t come from top ranking school. When I was interviewing at Intel during a big recruiting event in Portland (after being selected from on-campus interview), I was the only one from my state. There were some colleges that had 20 kids there. Also, when I was graduating it was the very first year Microsoft came to our campus. They hired only one person, my friend who is still there more than 15 years ago. Microsoft came back on our campus after my friend proved himself on a job. </p>
<p>What I found the most useful is to have a stellar GPA and get to know the professors, who sometimes have leads for opportunities that they will share only with a few select students. </p>
<p>I was supposed to graduate in June and had job offers in November of previous year - more than 6 months prior to graduation. I don’t know how good my offers were in comparison with those given to top school graduates, but they were where I wanted them to be.</p>
<p>I eventually decided to pursue graduate school and encountered the same situation. Companies do not directly recruit at the lower level schools. What you have to do is publish and try to impress employers (other researchers) at the conferences. I am now working at the company that does not recruit at my state flagship. When I started, my wages were not determined by my school, they were determined by employment market. In fact I know for a fact that my starting salary was way above starting salary of CMU grad, just because that person graduated in a different market couple of years earlier.</p>
<p>If you decide that you want to go to state school, get to know your professors right away and tell them you are interested in research. Whenever a professor knows of an opportunity, he or she will let you know, not everyone else. </p>
<p>If you decide to go to Columbia, then make sure you spend all your summer earnings on minimizing the debt. </p>
<p>As you can see, it is hard for me to give advice. That being said, I told my son that he is going to state flagship because I will not be cosigning for his loans and I will not be taking out parent plus loans (I will be paying for his education though). It is his responsibility from that point on to take advantage of every opportunity at the flagship.</p>
<p>poetgirl</p>
<p>As I’m sure you can see, people have different views on this.</p>
<p>One thing in favor of Florida – I believe that Princeton did a study where it tracked Ivy League graduates vs People accepted by Ivy League schools who went elsewhere for whatever reason. They did not find any significant difference in career earnings between the two groups. This strongly suggests that it’s the students that make the institution rather than the institution making the student.</p>
<p>However – fwiw, if it were me, I’d incur the debt $50,000 over 4 years and go to Columbia.</p>
<p>Go to Columbia. 60k honestly is not that much. Honestly, UF might have a good reputation in Florida, but here in the northeast, if you mention that name people will be like “…what?”. Compared to Columbia’s reputation.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In different circumstances even I have different views on this, actually.</p>
<p>And, I’m aware of the research on this issue, and I don’t disagree with the research. I’m not in favor of taking out massive amounts of debt to fund just any education in the middle of the woods or farm fields, either. However, I see this as a different set of circumstances.</p>
<p>It’s an interesting question, anyway, because I’m usually pretty knee-jerk, “NO!” to borrowing more than 25,000-30,000 for undergrad. So, I’m actually kind of surprised to find out I think this, but I do, in this case.</p>
<p>JMO</p>
<p>I think this one is a close call, but you’re being offered a Columbia degree for half price. I think it’s worth taking on this much debt. As others have pointed out, it’s not all about ROI. You’ll have an overall experience at Columbia that UF, as good as it is, can’t really match.</p>
<p>60K is a lot for some families and can put them under. I know a family torn apart, in part due to the debt undertaken for a college student. </p>
<p>I’m glad that the posters here, Poetgrl, are not knee-jerking “no” to borrowing in some formulaic chorus. THere are other things in the picture here to make it a consideration. First of all the parent is informed and knows the implication of taking these loans; she’s a veteran of them. Secondly, the parent is making 6 figures. There is more play in paying when someone is at that income level than with a family who is barely making subsistence income. There is an aura and name recognition factor to the ivies. It is something that people want. Is it worth $60k in loans for it; I would personally pay it. If mom is willing go on board with this and split the debt, and both parties understand what is going into paying for this, it can be a go.</p>
<p>thought of paying back 50-60k for DECADES after I graduate makes me sick. (My mother’s 54, makes 110k per year, and is STILL paying back her loans. I don’t want to be that.)</p>
<p>Yikes! That is awful!</p>
<p>Have we even heard if the mom wil co-sign? if not, then this is a non-issue. Maybe the student should contact Columbia and mention that “mom is still paying back student loans” issue to see if they’ll cough up another $5-10k per year. That would significantly reduce the debt.</p>
<p>OP…how strong are your stats?</p>
<p>Agree that this is tough. If the OOP cost was $20-25K that would be a no brainer. But this is more, and the COL in NY isnt cheap. </p>
<p>How does Columbia’s CS department compare to UF? Yes UF has been having significant budget issues. Hard to believe they’d axe the program, though.</p>
<p>Agree with those above who have pointed out that, especially with engineering degrees, they can get a good education at a number of places. But the key is being able to get a JOB if they dont go on to grad school. If there is little recruitment on campus, its really hard to get internships and jobs, and filling out a gazillion on line applications often isnt very fruitful. So while in principal, yes I agree that good training can be gotten at many schools, if they cannot get a desirable job, what good is it? Engineers are in demand, so while it may take more work, hopefully schools with poor recruitment resources can get something eventually. But they may not be the desirable jobs, and it may be a tough task to find a job. In this economy, whatever edge we can give our kids to be able to successfully launch at the end of their college career should be an important factor.</p>
<p>My views also change on this from situation to situation, but like many others I don’t think that $50,000 is unreasonable debt for Columbia (or even $60K, although that’s pushing it). I do believe that as a CS major coming from Columbia you can make enough to pay that off.</p>
<p>I will add the caveat that I don’t necessarily think that the educational/teaching opportunities are better at Columbia than UF (I read a lot of the Core readings in high school, and I think I had far better readings in my college’s required curriculum), but I think the networking, connections, and opportunities that New York may have to offer you can benefit you more than Gainesville.</p>
<p>
LOL ;)</p>
<p>I usually preach against student debt too, but I also would personally take Columbia at that price. – You know, three quarters off full-pay ;)</p>
<p>It is not $60K. It is really $108K. I would borrow to give that to my DS3 if he can get into Columbia for Finance/Econ but not for CS. Perhaps, a CS minor. ;)</p>
<p>ace, the OP said he has to pay $27k but his mother will contribute $10k and he figures he can earn $3-4k working each year.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for all of the responses, guys! It’s helped me put things in perspective.</p>
<p>I’ve decided not to attend UF–but that doesn’t mean I’m going to Columbia.</p>
<p>As someone mentioned, I also got into NYU (Big Apple ftw!). Turns out I got similar packages from both schools (would pay 108k for Columbia and 120k for NYU). To most this is a no-brainer: Columbia.</p>
<p>But here’s the catch: NYU lets you use outside scholarships to reduce your expected contribution. Columbia doesn’t. And I’ve applied, and will apply, for lots of scholarships for the rest of this year and during undergrad.</p>
<p>Perfect example: I recently won a $20,000 scholarship (5k per year). This already makes NYU cheaper than Columbia by 8k. Of course with only 8k difference I’d still choose Columbia, but the point is, if I win more scholarships I may end up paying significantly less at NYU.</p>
<p>I already appealed for Columbia. They took my mom’s student loans into account, and gave me an extra 3k a year. (Originally our contribution was 30k per year, the same as NYU. Go figure.)</p>
<p>And yeah, I got chosen as a John Jay Scholar–but I was also chosen as an MLK Scholar for NYU, and they offer very similar opportunities (e.g. at NYU I’m guaranteed to travel internationally or within the US every year.) So those cancel each other out.</p>
<p>I’m leaning towards NYU at this point, simply because that 27k per year at Columbia is locked in stone–at NYU, depending on scholarships, I might be graduating with significantly less.</p>
<p>NYU isn’t significantly far behind Columbia. And the CS programs at both schools are really similar; some have told me that NYU is superior.</p>
<p>Thanks for the update and congrats on the $5k per year merit! If you win anymore, note if they are multi-year or for one year only.</p>
<p>Will your mom co-sign your loans?</p>
<p>Are you a URM?</p>
<p>If you get anymore merit offers within the next few days, contact Columbia and let them know to see if they will give you any more money to make themselves as affordable as NYU.</p>