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<p>I love DH, but ideally we would have separate bathrooms.</p>
<p>Couple of points:</p>
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<li><p>One keeps lots of ‘stuff’ in ones bathroom at home. This does not happen in a communal bathroom which are strictly all business (at least not in the ones I had). Nor does one take leisurely baths with scented candles, drink wine, watch television, or enjoy chromatherapy bubbles from the jacuzzi. Not suggesting I do these things but I’ve heard tell of them. Apples to oranges in my book. </p></li>
<li><p>We have a bathroom where the toilet and shower are behind a closed door while the sink is not. Not dissimilar to communal setups. My different gender children not infrequently use the two areas simultaneously. I agree that while two people are unlikely to use an open BR together, having relatively private areas makes a big difference in usage patterns.</p></li>
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<p>S and D shared a bathroom all the years growing up. Shared in the sense that when one of them was taking too long in there, the other one would generally pound on the locked door and demand to be let in! Definitely not just a public issue in that regard - for most college students the fact remains that in some versions of coed bathrooms they are crossing lines of privacy they have never been asked to cross. The social mores I referred to in my earlier post did not come about in a vacuum or without good reason - reasons that many others on this thread have already pointed out. My other point was that it’s NOT rational to say that other people should just toughen up and deal with coed bathrooms in the name of an abstract philosophy of social equality. It’s simply unreasonable to assume that everyone else will or should all of a sudden be OK with discarding the standards of a lifetime of practice, standards that exist and continue to exist in the world for a multitude of reasons. </p>
<p>If some people want or are OK with coed bathrooms that is, of course no skin off anyone’s nose. But don’t force the choice as being somehow morally superior, representative of someone’s adaptability etc., either.</p>
<p>Re the “mystery”. I know that there are plenty of married people who do not conduct certain bathroom activities in front of each other because they do think it kills the romance. A closed door provides more privacy than a stall does in terms of soundproofing. The fact that many married people prefer a certain amount of privacy does support the idea that some people would prefer not to conduct bathroom business in front of someone they may be trying to impress. My son has a gender neutral bathroom across the hall from his room – one toilet, one shower behind stalls, sinks in the open. However, he tells me the unwritten rule is to let someone have complete access of the bathroom when they are in there and to only come in and use the toilet if the other person has the shower going and you can’t wait. It’s not a dorm rule, but just what the students who use that bathroom have ended up doing out of respect for each other’s privacy.</p>
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<p>Great post. It is ludicrous to claim some sort of moral superiority for being “enlightened” enough to welcome and enjoy sharing what is typically personal, intimate space with strangers of the opposite gender. Although I fully realize that gender lines are being blurred and to some degree oblierated these days for some, that is not the way that the majority view gender. </p>
<p>I don’t have a college student or applicant yet, but I could see my kid taking this into consideration in choosing a college, just as s/he might be selective about any other facet that creates an intolerable level of discomfort on a daily basis.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, one thing you’re forgetting is that a very substantial percentage of the harassment (beyond dirty looks) that many trans people face in single gender bathrooms, including the risk of physical violence – and, of course, arrest – comes from security guards and police. And that’s a problem that gender neutral bathrooms do take care of. (So – at least in theory, if they were enforced – would laws prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations on grounds of gender identity or expression, but the majority of states and localities don’t have such laws, and federal ENDA, even if it’s passed at some point, covers only employment discrimination. Besides, even in places with such laws, like NYC, trans people still get harassed by security guards and police all the time.)</p>
<p>PS: You’re not likely to find too many trans women or trans men standing at the next urinal. Not trans women, because women’s rooms don’t usually have urinals, and because no trans woman would be caught dead using one anyway – even if they are physically able to. And not trans men (or genderqueer people on the transmasculine spectrum), because for the most part they’re not physically able to without use of one of those devices you can buy that enables people without original male equipment to pee standing up.</p>
<p>Back when I was still physically able to do that, and before transition, when I still used public men’s rooms when I was presenting as a guy, I didn’t use urinals, and hadn’t for years. I suffered from what’s known as “shy kidney,” a problem shared by lots of men who aren’t trans, from what I’ve heard.</p>
<p>And I don’t miss not being able to pee standing up. At least so far; I haven’t encountered any extremely filthy public bathrooms yet!</p>
<p>And I’m still waiting for someone – anyone!! – to provide any evidence whatsoever that the supposed problem of forcing college students to use co-ed bathrooms is actually a problem at a single college in the entire country, other than (supposedly) the one in the article linked by the OP.</p>
<p>Basically, I see this as just another scare tactic, with minimal, if any, grounding in reality. Just like all the anti-trans scare tactics about “men” assaulting women and children in public women’s rooms.</p>
<p>I really haven’t heard anyone in this thread (with one possible exception) even suggest that a preference for single-gender bathrooms is in any way morally or philosophically inferior, or culturally retrogressive. Almost everyone has simply said that co-ed or gender neutral bathrooms should be an available choice in colleges for those who want them, especially on co-ed dormitory floors – where, apart from everything else, having a co-ed bathroom can be a matter of convenience, as when there’s only one bathroom per floor. And that such bathrooms have been an available option in many colleges for at least 30 or 35 years. Hardly a newfangled liberal innovation!</p>
<p>By contrast, particularly early in the thread, there were plenty of people who didn’t hesitate to characterize co-ed bathrooms as being “wrong” (apparently even when they are a matter of choice.)</p>
<p>We developed certain criteria when we looked at colleges- bathrooms were not really one of them.
But I can see for some people- it would be something to look into.
In our own house, we have one bathroom- the way it is designed- you can use the shower-toilet-sink, without bothering someone using another part of the bathroom, so other than alerting other occupants that you were going to be entering, usage is not restricted to same sex, as long as both people are comfortable.</p>
<p>As I have mentioned, the co-ed dorm bathroom, didn’t have urinals, they had stalls, so it was not any less private than a single sex bathroom.</p>
<p>A bathroom consideration that I am concerned about is access for those who are physically challenged. Are dorms providing access for students with limited mobility?
Are they restricted to certain dorms, or do most dorms have elevators and handicapped access toilets and showers?</p>
<p>The dorm my youngest is in, doesn’t have an elevator and she is on the 4th floor. lots of little stairs and wings that stick out here and there. It’s quaint but PITA ( at least I kept getting lost when I was helping her move in)
Lots of things we don’t have to think about unless forced to.</p>
<p>Thats why I am in favor of bathrooms not being divided by being fancy on the inside or not.</p>
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<p>Donna, That’s why I asked the question about whether or not the hall votes are always 100% anonymous and if not, if there could be perceived pressure on students to vote in a certain way. Both replies I got more or less acknowledged that there is, at least theoretically, some truth to that. In fact, I know one student to whom this did happen. She ended up going out of her way to use a bathroom on another floor rather than be the one to raise an objection. I think that is unfortunate - you just have to wonder how many others felt the same way but acceded to the more vocal students’ wishes.</p>
<p>Muslim girls who wear a hijab and Orthodox Jewish female students need to request single-sex bathrooms. Religious students might want to live in an integrated hallway where they get to be with all kinds of people, but their practices relegate them to what may be the only hallway with a single-sex bathroom. In my daughter’s building there was only one single-sex bathroom, leaving little choice for those students who must have them for religious reasons.</p>
<p>Students who for religious reasons require single sex bathrooms are also likely to require single sex dorms- most schools do have something like that don’t they?
my nieces in NY, were in womens dorms/off campus- but while Reed had a women’s floor, I don’t think they had a women’s dorm.
It’s something to investigate upfront.</p>
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<p>I think this is a reasonable assumption.</p>
<p>Both H and I lived in (non-coed bathroom) dorms in college, but I admit that it never crossed our minds, nor our Ds’ minds, that the dorm bathrooms at D’s chosen colleges might be coed, so none of us ever considered it.</p>
<p>At D1’s college, she has lived in all-female suites with their own bathroom all 3 years, so it never came up. Freshman D2 is currently in the same arrangement. However, D2 recently learned that next year she will share a common entryway bathroom with whatever gender suites end up in that entryway, so it will likely be co-ed. When I asked her what she thought of that, she displayed a look of repugnance, but didn’t say anything. D2 is not the type to rock the boat or be demanding in a way that compromises the will of the group, so she will likely adapt. Just like every student who would have preferred a co-ed bathroom and didn’t get one will adapt. But the fact that students can adapt to the arrangement doesn’t make it the “right” one.</p>
<p>Not necessarily. You can stay covered with a man living on the same floor (only being uncovered in your own room.) You can’t stay covered while you are showering. I don’t think all girls whose religion requires that they be modest choose to live in single-sex housing. I know one Muslim girl who dressed very modestly but lived on a co-ed floor (without co-ed bathrooms.)</p>
<p>However the Muslim religion forbids relationships with the opposite sex prior to marriage so someone who is devout would find it uncomfortable I imagine to live in such close proximity to the opposite sex.</p>
<p>I like the setup in my college a lot - all floors are co-ed but individual suites/dorms are not - meaning your roommate is the same gender, but half the people on your floor aren’t. However, every dorm has its own bathroom, so you only share with your roommates or suitemates, rather than the floor. Some suites have 2 bathrooms if there’s 6-8 people.
Don’t christianity and judaism also prohibit pre-marital sex? it’s not like most 21st century muslim-Americans live strictly by the rules of the koran anymore than christian-americans live strictly by the Bible. I’m sure some do, but most don’t.
My college has a large muslim population, but we only offer co-ed floors and are known for being liberal with a large lgbt population too - they don’t seem to mind. 
I guess if you’re very religious, you have to look into this stuff in advance. It would avoid situations where the student ends up suing the school. Imo, it’s the students’ responsibility to check first.</p>
<p>*Don’t christianity and judaism also prohibit pre-marital sex? it’s not like most 21st century muslim-Americans live strictly by the rules of the koran anymore than christian-americans live strictly by the Bible. I’m sure some do, but most don’t. *</p>
<p>Many Muslim students may be recent immigrants, international students or come from a stronger religious background than those who have been in the US for generations.</p>
<p>Orthodox Jews may also have a problem with co-ed dorms, some Yale students who were Orthodox, were assigned to co-ed dorms, which didn’t work for them, but they also were forbidden to live off campus.
They went as far as suing the school, but the court ruled that they were free to go elsewhere.</p>
<p>My nieces who are Latter Day Saints attended a school that was not LDS, but they also were always assigned to single sex housing, I expect if that was not an option they would have transferred .</p>
<p>However, some Mormons think co-ed housing is a good idea!
[Mormon</a> Mentality - Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People Co-ed living](<a href=“http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/24/co-ed-living.htm]Mormon”>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/04/24/co-ed-living.htm)</p>
<p>I’m a college senior guy. I went to boarding prep school with single-sex dorms but undivided showers open to the entire bathroom. In college I’ve lived on a coed floor with single-sex bathrooms on opposite ends of the hall that wound up mixed-sex for guests, an all-guys hall that had a number of near live-in girlfriends who thoroughly used our ‘single sex’ bathroom, never mind plenty of other girls spending the night, a dorm with private in-room bathrooms and finally this year an all-guys off campus house with two bathrooms that everyone shares, including female guests. I also regularly use the ‘all girls’ bathroom in my girlfriend’s sorority.</p>
<p>From that perspective…this entire argument is ludicrous. If you have any bathroom or other privacy issues you should ensure that schools meet your standards before you apply to them. A lawsuit, really?</p>
<p>DonnaL</p>
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<p>A handicap accessible bathroom does not force others of a different sex to share it with you. Wheelchair ramps do not impinge on other’s privacy</p>
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<p>Yes you are. Perhaps not in so many words but that is certainly what you implied - otherwise you wouldn’t be arguing so vociferously for co-ed bathrooms as the only place that is safe for a trans gendered to pee</p>
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<p>And anyone who would harass a transgendered individual in a single sex bathroom will also do so in a co-ed bathroom. </p>
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<p>It is indeed</p>
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<p>One case is too many. And why do you doubt the veracity of the case presented? Plus I have no doubt many others are forced via peer pressure in these so called open votes to have to go along with the co-ed bathroom idea even though they are opposed to it</p>
<p>im positive its a responsibility thing - i mean c’mon, u have to be exposed to the opposite sex somewhere - im not trying to be rude to you at all, but its how the world is these days, lax and chill. You just gotta get used to it. Like girls for instance wear short short skirts… at age 12 and 13. thats how it is and it changes everyday. Just let it be the way its gonna be.</p>
<p>I’ll say it again. Gender-neutral bathrooms do, in fact, make trans people safe from harassment, arrest, or violence by security personnel and police. And they remove the usual “you’re in the wrong bathroom” excuse for harassnent by anyone. </p>
<p>ps: I’m not saying that co-ed bathrooms are the only safe bathrooms for all trans or gender queer people. For example, I’ve always felt safe in women’s rooms since I started using them. But just because I’ve akways been lucky enough to have passing privilege doesn’t mean everyone has… Or that I’m incapable of empathy for those who haven’t been lucky that way, who aren’t safe in any kind of single-gender bathroom. For them, gender-neutral or single-occupancy bathrooms are a necessity, not a question of comfort.</p>
<p>when it comes right down to it, though, trans people’s needs haven’t been the imprtius for most co-ed bathrooms in college. If college students didn’t want them, most woudn’t exist,</p>
<p>Finally, 35 years of co-ed bathrooms, and all anyone can come up with to prove that people are forced to use them is speculation about peer preesure? Even assuming that happens (and I’m sure peer pressure can work both ways), if it’s really important to someone, why can’t they either resist the peer pressure or move to a floor or dorm that has single-sex bathrooms? It’s still their choice. Not a requirement.</p>