<p>Just something to ponder - I work for a medical practice. The doctors/partners come from very different backgrounds. A couple of them are retired Navy, and got their educations there. A couple went to small schools I've never heard of. One went to the local state U. One went to Georgetown. </p>
<p>They all make the same amount of money, but some have debt and some don't.</p>
<p>I would definitely recommend attending Univ of Arizona free over having to pay for Duke or Cornell. However, you should understand that at Arizona you will need to be much more self-motivated, because your friends at Arizona will be much less motivated than you are (i.e. peer pressure is quite different at the schools). Furthermore, state schools tend to have much less grade inflation than Ivies or similar schools. Some people actually fail classes at state schools.</p>
<p>I attended the University of Florida as an undergrad (which is comparable to Arizona) but was fortunately able to maintain very high grades and received a fellowship for a PhD at MIT. My daughter wants to attend med school, so she turned down Princeton and CalTech to attend Case Western with a scholarship that mostly covers tuition, so we could afford med school (fortunately she is doing very well). Our family is old-fashioned, so we think debt is particularly a bad idea for a girl who wants to work part-time or not at all while she has young children (i.e. my daughter).</p>
<p>Do not assume that because you attend Arizona it will be very easy to achieve a 4.0 GPA (it may be, but in such a case you would be highly unusual). Maintaining a high GPA is essential for med school. Furthermore, make sure you thoroughly prepare for the MCAT exam. I agree with the others that no one really cares very much where their doctor attended undergrad (or even med school, as long as it is in the US). I know many doctors who are still burdened by med school debt even now when their children are ready for college. Avoid debt as much as possible.</p>
<p>I'm torn whether to reply here or on the thread about being a consumer about education.</p>
<p>"I know many doctors who are still burdened by med school debt even now when their children are ready for college. Avoid debt as much as possible."</p>
<p>I don't know "many," but knowing one is enough. It's a married couple I'm thinking of, now into middle age. One child in a private college after expensive private high school (almost essential in my area, due to alternatives), another child still in expensive middle school. The couple has mountains of debt; she has wanted to increase her job marketability in a very competitive job region, so she's now getting her Ph.D., adding to that financial burden. They get no breaks for financial aid, anywhere, despite that debt, due to their income on paper. With credit the way it is right now, and with some of us worried about the country's financial future, I would heed pafather's advice big time. (Although I'm no expert on med school!)</p>
<p>Northwestern used to have (what we called) a 6-year Med program. At the end you have your B.A. and M.D. Northwestern is expensive, but you are done in 6 years instead of 8. </p>
<p>Sorry I can't be sure if the program still exists.</p>
<p>"To play devils advocate: You don't know for absolute sure that your parents will be able to pay for medical school in four years."</p>
<p>Doesn't that argue for going to Duke or Cornell now? I have to be a bit of a contrarian on this...while financial concerns are important, they aren't everything. You will get some very valuable experiences out of an education at a Duke or a Cornell. Do some solid figuring on the financial impacts of different choices, but also be somewhat hesitant to give up high value in the shorter term for more speculative value in the middle term. (In the long term, you'll probably be perfectly fine whatever you decide to do.)</p>
<p>It's a fair argument, but only if Cornell and Duke are educationally substantially better than the U of A Honors College. I doubt that very, very much. (I have a stepnephew graduating from Duke.)</p>
<p>I have a niece at UofA. She started out pre-med at Hopkins, but it was not for her. She transferred to UofA and has since changed her major to something occupational or physical therapy related - can't remember which.</p>
<p>She is very studious, lives in an apartment, works part time, but loves the mentoring she gets at UofA. UofA is also much closer to her family and extended family who are all in the midwest. She feels the classes at UofA are just as challenging as the ones at Hopkins. </p>
<p>I agree with mini in that at UofA you will be a big fish in a big pond - at Duke and Cornell you will be one of many little fish in a big pond. </p>
<p>And just think of the debt. Do you really want to spend your first few years in the workforce paying off debt - unable to start saving for a home of your own because you owe so much for your education.</p>
<p>You might also look into programs where you commit to going to a small community for your first years as a physician. There are programs where they will pay your med school costs in exchange for a commitment to go to a rural area. Don't know the name of the programs - someone else on this forum might.</p>
<p>Do not underestimate the freedom that would come from graduating from med school debt free. </p>
<p>You would not find yourself selecting specialties and employment based, in part, on the ability to pay your loans. You could choose to work with Doctors Without Borders or the Peace Corps if you wanted to. You could work in a clinic in an under-served area without worrying much about finances if that is where your heart leads you.</p>
<p>You may want to PM curmudgeon. His D, also premed, was accepted at many schools, including Yale, but chose to go to Rhodes on a free ride, and is as happy, and challenged as she can be.</p>
<p>I agree with mini--my daughter attends an honors college at a large state university--and they LOVE their honor students, and provide them with all kinds of perks and advantages in order to attract them. I have been so impressed after talking to some of these students and hearing what they have been doing and what their plans are. Many of them are going on to Law schools and Medical schools at the finest universities. Some of them have studied abroad, attending foreign schools while paying their in-state tuition (free) alongside students who are paying their private school tuition ($35,000). I say--go to U of A and vow to make the very best of every opportunity you encounter--take all it has to offer, and get the very best education that you can--and you will be able to write your future. You sound like a very intelligent, articulate and level-headed person--
Good Luck!</p>
<p>I thought the UofA Honors College had a very good reputation, but that is only hearsay - yet that may be part of what you are wondering - how is it <em>perceived</em>? UofA seems to be in the USNews top tier (top 100) and that is the U as a whole, without the advantages of the Honors College.</p>
<p>I am another vote for the UoA for your situation. You can talk to someone there about med school placement of Honors College students, and that may reassure you.</p>
<p>"There are programs where they will pay your med school costs in exchange for a commitment to go to a rural area. Don't know the name of the programs - someone else on this forum might."</p>
<p>Something like " Public Health Service".</p>
<p>edit
Public</a> Health, Commissioned Corps</p>
<p>P.S. Although we are still paying off school loans, we do okay, and will probably pay full price for our D to attend Duke with the class of '12. She's been offered a few small to medium scholarships elsewhere, and can do honors at a midtier UC, but we didn't have to ponder turning down a "full-ride".</p>
<p>Thanks for all your help. Your stories/opinions are very helpful.</p>
<p>I believe mini is correct. A relative who graduated from a top Ivy and went on to med school said he wished he had opted for a less expensive state school. He said after he spent med school with many state U students he felt he received no better an education than they, and some, he felt, got to do some more interesting things than he did.</p>
<p>Every doctor my D has asked about this said go for the cheapest undergrad (as long as you a getting a good euducation) if medical school is really in your future. In our case, D went with great scholarship to a wonderful school so that all of the money we set aside can help her with med school. She passed up Duke and Wash U, which many might believe to be better schools. She loves where she is and will have tangible economic benefits from her decision.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision.</p>
<p>
<p>You would not find yourself selecting specialties and employment based, in part, on the ability to pay your loans. You could choose to work with Doctors Without Borders or the Peace Corps if you wanted to. You could work in a clinic in an under-served area without worrying much about finances if that is where your heart leads you.
mafool, are you sure my D hasn't co-opted your account? ;)</p>
<p>Although "no debt" is a lovely pipe-dream for my D after med school, substantially less debt is a reality that she can count on.</p>
<p>I do think the rules shift for the dreaded pre-professional kid . The economics are different, why shouldn't the strategy be different, too?</p>
<p>S has a friend who has done lab research in a highly respected/competitive environment for the past couple of summers. The mentor, post-doc and grad students ALL told him to take the merit money and attend a state flagship -- better opportunities for funded research, the Honors College will take good care of you, etc. </p>
<p>Friend had planned on JHU for undergrad his entire life. Turned down the acceptance and never looked back. He loves his school and they love him.</p>
<p>Here is an article from Money magazine about two young doctors in $500k of debt: Young</a> doctors in debt - Nov. 16, 2007</p>
<p>This may help you decide, if it is worth it to go into debt.</p>