A Difficult Quandary...Any Parents Available?

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello. Admissions are now over, but I find myself yet in a difficult quandary. I have been admitted to the following: University of Arizona Honors College, Duke, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Cornell, Berkeley, and Rice. </p>

<p>I am very interested in attending Cornell or Duke while majoring in Biological Sciences or Biology, respectively. I hope to attend medical school afterwards, but would like to leave my options open. An interview with a Cornell alumni very much endeared Cornell to me, especially with how he described the professors and curriculum. I like Duke's proximity to a prestigious medical center and the FOCUS program. In summary, it would be my dream to attend these schools for an undergraduate experience. I hear Cornell has a very nice undergraduate research atmosphere and focus, and the students are collaborative. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, like many of the other 1.6 million high students, the dream ends there, hamstringed by financial aid problems. For each of these private universities, I (my parents) would have to pay around $30,000 to $35,000 dollars. Berkeley takes the cake with an astounding $42,000 (with $250.59 in grant aid). The silver lining in all this is the fact I have a full-ride to the University of Arizona. </p>

<p>So my dilemma is this. If I attend any of these private universities, I will have to pay for medical school myself through loans ($200,000 + undergraduate debt of $15,000). If I go to the University of Arizona, my parents will pay for medical school, which means in the event I graduate, I am free of debt.</p>

<p>I would like to hear your input on this. If any of you, especially practicing, physicians, can give me any input if have this debt is worth the experience or if medical schools care greatly about which undergraduate university you attended, I would appreciate it. How long does it take one to pay off this debt? I'd really appreciate any advice you could give me about getting admitted to medical school/financial aid. </p>

<p>I have also heard from several people that it might be better to attend a school such as the UoA because you will stand out more than if you attended Cornell. Does this have any validity?</p>

<p>In advance, thank you for your time.</p>

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<p>At the same time you wait for parents to respond, have you also looked over at the graduate school section of CC, under Medical School?</p>

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<p>I had no idea such an section existed. Thank you for your information.</p>

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<p>How sure are you about medical school? Might you decide to major in something else? Undecided?<br>
Look at the CC section for med schools and grad schools. Where you went usually isn't as important as GPA and test scores and research completed.
Are all your non-UA schools equally expensive? Seems Rice used to be more affordable by far but YMMV.</p>

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<p>Med school debt still hounds our family of 2 MDs, twenty years later. I don't think the name of the school matters, but it's ability to prepare you for the MCAT's does. Things have changed, so there is more talk here about "shadowing" and research opportunities than I remember.</p>

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<p>QUicksilvery, to find it, click on "Discussion Home" (top left of this page), then scroll down about 2/3 way down to "Professional and Graduate Schools." Right under there are several Med School threads.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>(Heck, he's probably over there now. I'm a fool to advise anyone under age 20 on anything computer...)</p>

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<p>I'm not a physician. But I do have a D who wants to be one, and I don't have the resources to write checks for UG and Med School. Here's what I told my D starting in 9th grade: "Your Mom and I can afford to pay $20K per year toward your education, for whatever period that takes. That will cover UG costs at the state flagship university, and approximately half of Med School costs at the same flagship. If you want to attend somewhere else you will need to get scholarships, or work to earn the difference." D choose the scholarship route and is finishing her UG at an OOS private.</p>

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<p>Really no question here: U of A. Medical school costs are rising higher and higher. Even with your parents good intentions you may find yourself needing a few loans there anyway. Why don't you check the medical acceptance rates from U and A? If they are pitiful then maybe one of the other options is better because you want to be able to get into medical school! If they're good, then why not spend four years in a nice, warm place? At U of A you will find many like minded, bright people, but you will also see average and even slightly below average students. At the others, most of the students will be super bright. The nice thing about U of A is that it is very diverse. That makes it more interesting in my eyes. But, it is a tough decision. </p>

<p>By the way,you must be OOS for Berkeley. They don't really give money to out of state people. I never quite understood why OOS people want to apply there as an undergrad. As a graduate student? YES> but, not for undergrad. They don't even give most of the in state students much more then loans, but it costs a lot less for in state. </p>

<p>If you graduated with an MD debt free or near debt free, you will be far ahead of the normal medical student and will be able to enjoy your income right away. I am not an MD, but a critical care RN in a large teaching hospital. I see the residents struggling (MD is not a ticket to instant wealth anymore). You could easily be 40 years old before you have a fancy car.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
"How sure are you about medical school? Might you decide to major in something else? Undecided? "

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>About 70% sure. Make that very sure. But I like to keep my options open, in case I develop a sudden and unexplainable fear of doctors. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
"Med school debt still hounds our family of 2 MDs, twenty years later. I don't think the name of the school matters, but it's ability to prepare you for the MCAT's does."

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>That's the exact sort of thing I am afraid of. I don't want myself to be in the forties or fifties still making payments.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
"(Heck, he's probably over there now. I'm a fool to advise anyone under age 20 on anything computer...)"

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Heh, you're right. Found it right after you said it. Thanks for the heads-up though.</p>

<p>By the way, I live in Arizona, about two hours away from home at UA. Friends going to be there too..</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
"you must be OOS for Berkeley. They don't really give money to out of state people. I never quite understood why OOS people want to apply there as an undergrad. As a graduate student? YES> but, not for undergrad.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Hit the nail on the head. They really don't. I applied there because Berkeley was ranked near the top in many different fields. I probably should have done more research, but I was caught up a little in the moment. Application Frenzy.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
"If you graduated with an MD debt free or near debt free, you will be far ahead of the normal medical student and will be able to enjoy your income right away, not in ten/fifteen years. I see the residents struggling and you could easily be 35-40 years old before you have that fancy car."
[/QUOTE.]
</p>

<p>For now, I have little interests in fancy cars or homes :p My parents never did, and I learned from them. I'd like to hear about medical school debt and how bad it could be, would be nice to see some examples.</p>

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<p>I think the debt free route and your parents paying for medical school is the way to go. My daughter opted for a State U where, between scholarships and some financial aid, she will graduate almost debt free. We will put what we have saved to paying off her small loans if she does not go to med or graduate school or toward med or grad school if she does. She will not be debt free after med school but will have lower than average debt. Wonderful option gor you to have.</p>

<p>My sons girlfriends Dad is a Doctor - he is still paying off his student loans and has 2 in college (who both have to take out loans because he cannot pay for them) and one about to college.</p>

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<p>H is a medical professor and I have been to numerous gatherings of interns, residents and faculty over the years where this issue has been discussed extensively. The consensus is that it doesn't matter where you do your undergraduate work. When applying to med school, the most important factors are GPA, MCAT scores, and demonstrated interest in medicine (by working as a research assistant, for example), plus the usual intangibles of course. If I were you, I would definitely choose the in-state public, even if there is a possibility that you may later decide against med school. By finishing debt-free, your future options, both profesional and personal, would not be constrained by financial concerns.</p>

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<p>Does anyone know how the University of Arizona compares with other universities, i.e. its reputation?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If I go to the University of Arizona, my parents will pay for medical school, which means in the event I graduate, I am free of debt.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So what you're really deciding here is how much the private undergraduate experience is worth to YOU. If your parents cover your undergraduate years, and you take out loans to cover medical school only, then you need to calculate how many years it'd take you to pay back the med school (only) loan. </p>

<p>A good thing about medical school is it has real payback potential. How important is it to you to begin to gain material footing at a young age? (Note: I think 28 is young.)</p>

<p>Maybe you're weighing moving into your own house at age 30 instead of at age 35, or taking which kinds of vacations and how long you'll have to wait for them. </p>

<p>One thing I'm thinking is that if you decide against medical school while in college, you might be better situated from a Dartmouth, Duke or Cornell to get a stronger post-college job than from U of A. Your U of A strategy is great IF you go to med school, but if you change majors, maybe the Duke or Cornell degree is a stronger launching pad for the next stage, whatever that is (job, grad school with paid assistantship in a different scientific field..).</p>

<p>Check out that business about training to score well on MCAT's, too. Sometimes I hear people having trouble going from state university to med school, and I don't know them well enough to know if their MCAT's are low, or what. </p>

<p>All the above is based on logic; we have few dr.'s in our family, just lawyers and such.</p>

<p>You asked about reputations. My hunch is that U of A is fine in that region of the country, but some of your other schools have national reputations. For example, what do you think of the U of Massachusetts, or the U of New Hampshire...For certain careers, where regional hires count for more (such as teaching, government), you're better off to have the local network of contacts and comfort.
For medicine, you can go from anywhere to anywhere else; it's not bound by geography. </p>

<p>Your U of A strategy is a financial strategy, primarily, and works only if you end up in med school. The reason to let your parents fund your undergrad and you take on your med school financing through loans is it might actually give you more flexibility of choices and a national reputation undergraduate school; but you'll have to wait longer for houses, fancy cars, and so on.</p>

<p>I'm just laying things out logically, so you can apply pricetags and your own personal value system to the logic, if you agree with it.</p>

<p>The big complaint I read and hear about Cornell from science and pre-med students is: too many sections of large courses are run by graduate assistants with accents they can't understand! If that scares you, maybe Dartmouth is a better choice... Other people have a good ear to hear through foreign accents. Only you know you.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all your posts and help. They have been very insightful and I'll have to spend some of this time digesting this information.</p>

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<p>U of A is by far the best choice. Not just financially, but likely educationally. If you were good enough to get into Duke and Cornell, with effort you will be at or close to the top of your class. You will get MORE research opportunities, better internships, more mentoring than you would if you were a middling student at Duke or Cornell. And no matter where you go, 50% of the class is in the bottom half. If you put in the effort, you will have the sure backing of your med. school committee.</p>

<p>Top of your class at a good state university has a better reputation than middle of the class ANYWHERE.</p>

<p>And you have no idea the opportunities that being debt-free will give you down the road.</p>

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<p>I just want to point out that it is very possible to earn a lot of money as an MD, but it is NOT guaranteed anymore. HMO's and managed care have put a lid on MD salaries. The ones who make the big bucks don't generally accept those. And, when you are a new doctor it is hard to survive without the HMOs. Setting up a private practice costs boocoo bucks, too, so many young doctors work for someone else. 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical schools and 2-4 years of residency (where you are paid poorly) adds up to 28/29 years old before you are done with school. Then you have to start paying off loans. Being an MD can be lucrative, but wanting to be an MD for only the money is about the worst reason to be an MD. Again, wealth is not guaranteed, especially if you are strapped with 200K+ in loans as a 28 year old. The trick would be getting a great enough education to be able to do well on the MCAT. The MCAT is the key to med.school, not so much the undergrad. college.</p>

<p>If you change your mind about medical school, the U of A is a great school for other majors. Usually biochemistry class does in about half of doctor wannabes. Personally, I cannot see the advantage of a large private school with classes the same size as a public. But, many people do, I guess.</p>

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<p>If you look at my screen name you can probably guess what my answer to your question is! Take the free ride and revel in it. There is absolutely no guarantee you will be accepted to any medical school just because you paid too much to go to any of the other schools. It is far more important how well YOU did as an undergrad, not WHERE you were an undergrad! You can also major in anything you want that you really love, as long as you get the basic science courses completed. I have seen students who were education majors and music majors sail right into medical school and outshine many chemistry majors, biology majors and engineers. Save that money for a truly great medical school, like,say Vanderbilt! Who knows, I might just be teaching you there someday! Do well on your MCATs, find some volunteer work that you are passionate and deeply involved in, try to get involved in some worthy global health volunteering projects (that is a hot button at Vandy right now!) and yes, of course try to fit some research project(s) in as well. Good luck</p>

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<p>save some money/stress-go to Arizona (and free up a space for me at Dartmouth- j/k)</p>

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<p>You might want to look at statistics for the U of Arizona medical school. This will probably be the most obvious place for you to attend medical school, no matter where you do undergrad, because as an AZ resident, cost will be very reasonable compared to any other med school. Look at how many U of A undergrads are accepted to the Medical School. Also, see if you can find out where other accepted students did their undergrad. The quickest way to get these answers might be to talk to someone in admissions at the U of A med school. If they love to admit their own, then that would be an obvious track. If they prefer to admit Arizona kids who have gone farther afield for their undergraduate work, that would be good to know.</p>

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<p>PS: I just noticed you were admitted to the U of A Honors College. There's your answer right there. You will get the extra attention you get at a private in the honors programs at most Universities. The negatives of attending a large public are usually negated in the Honors programs. For example, many give the Honors students priority registration so you don't have to fight everyone else for classes. That's a big perk. Does U of A do that? U of A isn't chopped liver, you know. It is a good school!</p>

<p>I know attending your in state public, not far from home, isn't nearly as exciting as going far away. If you weren't thinking of medical school then the other schools would be a no brainer to choose. I feel for you in this decision. It is only four years, but then again, it is four years. Try to plan some study abroad or domestic exchange or summer opportunities that are neat if you decide to go to U of A. Maybe you could investigate what opportunities would be available to you other then just free tuition. You should know by the end of Sophomore year if you still want to be a doctor. </p>

<p>To play devils advocate: You don't know for absolute sure that your parents will be able to pay for medical school in four years. Anything could happen- a job loss, a health issue, a house fire, anything! Don't just choose U of A for the money. You need to be happy, too. If you are happy, you will do well. Could you be happy at U of A?</p>