My son has learning disability and he does not do well in LA. Struggles mightily with testing like the SAT. Does really well with Math, Science. Has an interest in Engineering School. His overall GPA is about 3.7. No AP classes. I am not pushing him into things he doesn’t want to do. He will be taking Calculus in his senior next year. Lack of maturity is an issue as well. Quiet kid. I am OK with his choice of engineering because I was a lot like him at his age and I went to Engineering school. But when I got there, I was not prepared for it. I did have Calculus, Differential Equations, etc in High School and well prepared in Math, I felt somewhat unprepared for other classes. I struggled for a couple of years but made it through and graduated in 4 years. I see my son struggling if he goes straight out of high school to college. He will most likely have no shot at the top engineering schools and won’t even apply. I don’t want him to go to North Podunk State college either.
I am considering talking with him about a gap year followed by 2 years in community college and the transfer to 4-year University to finish up the engineering program. I am hoping a gap year may help in maturing and seeing the real word out there and somehow prepare him for engineering. What kinds of gap year opportunities are available to high school graduates, perhaps related to engineering, math, etc? He could also choose non-academic choices including getting a job.
I read talk about attrition. Obviously the goal is to not flunk out of college. What do these kids who flunk out of engineering schools do anyway? Goal is to allow him to mature a little after a gap year and then focus on school at one of the community colleges that have guaranteed transfer to university if the required GPA is obtained. Thanks.
First, there are lots of good engineering programs he could get into with a 3.7. More simply, there are lots of good engineering programs. I even had a retired NASA manager tell me some of his best engineers were from Podunk U. He said they many were more creative, less constrained by dogma and convention than his employees from Cal Tech. That’s not to say all Cal Tech engineers are bad and Boondocks U students are good, but rather it’s more about the individual than the program. All that is a round about way of saying he’ll get into a good program.
The question, is he ready? How does he feel? We as humans can’t be saved from ourselves. We all tend to come around in our own time. If he isn’t ready in his own mind. There isn’t a lot you can do until he’s ready.
The problem with a gap year is that a break in stride is detrimental to a student’s chances of completing a degree for all but the most focussed and motivated. There’s a high correlation between taking a break and not finishing college. Were he gung ho and just wanting to take a break before getting serious again a gap year could be a great recharge. Otherwise, I’d avoid the break.
Then, where to go. The issue with CC is that students tend to be underprepared for the rigor of university level engineering. Don’t get me wrong, CCs are a great resource. There will just be a wide gap in the caliber of students he’ll be around and the expectation foist upon him. All schools expect this of Freshmen. The support isn’t so robust for incoming Juniors. It won’t make much difference to a humanities major, but engineering is so cumulative that the foundation is extremely important. Not that it can’t be done, but it’ll be harder to be solid taking the CC route.
If he were my son, AND I knew he was motivated to go to college, I’d have him start at our local state flagship and see how it went.
You hit the nail on the head about CCs. I am concerned about that as well. The peers and how motivated they are and how good the teachers are, etc. I looked into many of them. I was told by a few that sending him to any of them in NJ would be a mistake, even though admission to Rutgers is possible after two years. Then I looked into several elsewhere. Found the RETP program at gatech. That looked interesting. Take a specific set of courses equivalent to what gatech students will take in their first two years, maintain 3.0 GPA or above and then transfer to gatech. I looked at another one. Montgomery College in MD. They seemed to have a good program with record of students transferring to decent colleges after the AS degree. But the problem with this is I don’t know if my son would succeed after two years. He says he wants to go to college straight out of high school. Having been to engineering school myself, I know it is a hard slog and I am not sure about him being motivated fully at this point.
With our son, the issue was more of him feeling confident enough to succeed in an engineering program. Basically, he was scared he’d fail. He had above average grades, but average SAT scores in high school. We saw fairly good motivation, but lack of confidence. He suggested the CC route, but I agree that it’s risky for the reasons mentioned above, so we steered him away from that option. Our solution was the state flagship which has lots of support. And, if he did not like/succeed in engineering, he would have many other majors to choose from (people who transfer out of engineering typically just pick another major, they don’t just leave the university). We avoided schools where there were only engineering majors, so as not to have to transfer if another major was sought. Our son is now in his second year and doing very well. It was the right decision for him. Hope this helps…
One other point I forgot to mention in my previous post. To help ease into the engineering curriculum, our son decided to take pre calculus, instead of calculus even though he got an A in high school calculus and a 4 on the AP test and passed the math placement test at the university. Because he only got an average SAT math scores, he thought he might not be ready. In fact, his counselor said he was in the “grey area” because of his SAT score, but it was still up to him. It was probably the best thing he could have done. It really gave him confidence his first semester when he got very good grades and it propelled him forward. Even thought it pushed his graduation by one semester, it has allowed him to take fewer hard classes his freshman/sophomore year. Just a thought…
I was in your shoes last year. My son scored very well on his ACT so ended up with several good choices despite average grades. He could go to a local Uni with a decent engineering program (but not the major he wanted) or farther away. He chose the ginormous school several hours away that had his perfect major. My Aspie kid, who made his very purchase senior year of hs (ie NO independence up to that point) felt he could do it. We let him. Mmmmm, I think it was a mistake, and we have trouble sleeping because we worry about it! He still won’t advocate for himself, still isn’t asking for help, is having trouble navigating group projects when the others aren’t holding up their ends… I think he even received some bad advising advice, which compounds everything because there’s a black and white line for entrance into his program. So where we thought it was great that he’d be accelerated even amongst his college peers…it doesn’t matter come application time for programs. Now he might not make it into his specialty even though he’s ahead academically! Hindsite…another Uni had implemented a program to support and retain their freshmen engineering students, with weekly small group and advising meetings. That would’ve been an easier transition for my Aspie son!! Ask Unis whether they have a freshman retention program. Also, your son may do better at a school with a strong co-op program, if he’s like my son. Application helps with motivation! Good luck!
@Pbrain is in a situation I don’t recommend to anyone. His son is at a school that didn’t have direct admission into his major of choice. University of Washington is a classic example of a school like this. Students compete for engineering and CS spots AFTER Freshman year. It’s very competitive and admission is not guaranteed. It can result in not getting into any engineering field or wasting Freshman year and transferring. Choose a school that has direct engineering admission.
One other thing that I think has been helpful for my son is that he lives in a dorm of all engineers. It’s helpful to be among students who are all going through the same stuff. There’s mental and academic support basically built in.
@inspiration12 so your son took Pre-calc again in Freshman year of College after taking Calculus in High School? Did he say if there was a difference in the material taught and if the college Pre-Calc was more advanced?
@Pbrain my son is an Aspie as well. He has gotten better with advocating for himself and speaking up with time but needs to get better still. Another issue with my son is what field in Engineering to choose. It is too early to know I think. I am considering sending him to one of those summer week long programs that give High School students an overview of the various fields in Engineering. Perhaps he would like one. I was told by RETP coordinator for gatech that admission is guaranteed but not specific major.
@HFAparent Yes, my son took Pre Calc his freshman year in college. It was a decision based on him being in the “grey area” which was a function of his SAT math score and their math placement test. Officially, he could have gone into Calculus because his math placement score was good, but the department wanted kids to be aware of borderline cases. Their statistics showed that grey area kids had a 50/50 chance of being successful in Calculus and an 85% success rate if they took Pre Calculus (their success rate is defined as an A or B). They also showed that kids who got an A or B in Pre Calculus had a 90% chance of graduating with ANY degree. He said his Pre Calculus was easier than his high school Calculus, but challenging none the less. It was a GREAT review of the algebra and trig skills needed for Calculus and it was streamlined in the sense that it’s at the same institution. They are teaching exactly what they want kids to know when they take Calculus. He did end of up getting an A in Pre Calc and went on to get B’s in Calc I and II. He actually liked the physics series better and was able to pull A’s. For him, the delay was worth it on many levels. He had the desire for math/science and the time management skills, but lacked the self confidence that he would be successful…slowing things down a bit at a great university worked for him…
“Yes, my son took Pre Calc his freshman year in college” - That sounds like it could be a good option for some schools/students. But… I’m not sure how many schools have that option for Engineers. Many other courses build upon calc, so it would likely delay graduation. It still could be a reasonable option if available and affordable.
I take a contrary view to repeating classes, especially two in the same sequence. There’s no guarantee that the student will cruise through at the collegiate level and they lose valuable time in an otherwise packed curriculum. My approach is to recommend starting as advanced as they are ready for. The only way to assess that is to get old tests and see how they do. Now, the large grain of salt, I don’t understand the reality of doing that with Aspergers. The next step is more stressful though no matter what. I wouldn’t be inclined to sell a student short academically just because of the diagnosis. Another dose of salt please.
Starting at precalc and graduating in four or even four and a half will largely depend on the school your son chooses. Some schools, like Cal Poly where an ME degree is 200 hours, are hard to finish in less than 5 even if you start in Calculus. Most students in the strong programs will be starting in Calc II or Calc III. I’m not saying that is the right way for your son, but trying to point out that you’ll want to know a lot about the program at the schools he narrows down to if he plans on starting in pre-Calc. Engineering programs that even have pre-Calc on their curriculum map are the exception.
Starting in precalculus makes it very likely that the student will have difficulty graduating in 8 semesters or 12 quarters as an engineering major, since long sequences prerequisites start with calculus as a first semester or quarter frosh.
For students who do have AP calculus credit, it is a good idea to try the college’s old final exams for the courses that are allowed to be skipped, in order to determine whether skipping or repeating the course at the college is the best placement.
Regarding the starting at CC path, how viable that is for engineering majors depends on the CC and the target universities. In some cases, the CCs may have good coverage of the frosh/soph prerequisite courses, so that the transfer is relatively seamless, and there may be a significant cohort of transfer-prep students at the CC. In other cases, the coverage may be lacking, so a transfer student will have to take “catch up” courses after transfer, and there may be few other transfer-prep students there. Merit scholarships tend to be more available for frosh than transfers, if that is a consideration. What kind of SAT or ACT scores is he getting to go with his 3.7 GPA?
Perhaps one of the biggest adjustments in college is that the student needs to have good self-motivation and time management – there is less progress monitoring and hand-holding like in high school. Students who have trouble here can fall much further behind than they can in high school, with disastrous results. But students who are motivated and manage their time well can make a seamless transition to college.
Remember that any ABET-accredited engineering major will have some humanities and social studies breadth requirements, though the extent of these does vary by school.
Worcester Polytechnic Institute has very comprehensive special needs services, if you feel that’s something he needs. There are lots of other schools like that, as well, WPI is just the first that comes to mind.