A Dose Of Genius: 'Smart Pills' Are on The Rise. But Is Taking Them Wise?

[simfish]

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You can't be serious. Most teachers are willing to help you if you're willing to work with them. Plus, I said you can ALSO GO TO A FELLOW PUPIL and ask for help. </p>

<p>And, most districts have alternative schools for children with learning disabilities, different learning styles, or schedules. My district has a few of these schools (about 8) which allow for LD supervision, kids who want to take classes in the evening versus the traditional schedule. And, don't tell me that "I probably live in a district more funded than an inner-city one". Inner-city ATL pays MORE per pupil than does my district.

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<p>Look, teachers can't spend a lot of time with you. How much time do they have in the day that they can devote to helping students ONE ON ONE? Barely any at all. Most have to teach most of the day - and want some extra free time to enjoy themselves - the majority aren't going to take you to their homes to teach you stuff. According to your logic, everyone would be able to learn adequately well if they had access to public school teachers. But that's definitely not the case. </p>

<p>And there are just SO MANY STUDENTS. Only a few students can really get adequate amounts of help. More students, and then the teacher will get overwhelmed.</p>

<p>Asking peers may or may not be an option. Oftentimes, peers just don't care about the work [or only care about getting the minimum done, they don't care about pursuing knowledge per se]. And some people like me just suck at socializing. I have Asperger's Syndrome, and a lot of those with Asperger's suck at socializing in the early years, but become better as we move up the academic hierarchy. </p>

<p>Your ability to understand what the teacher and others say, moreover, is highly dependent on how quickly you think and how quickly you can learn - both are correlated with intelligence. As I've said before, if you're perceived as unintelligent, people aren't going to be very enthusiastic in helping you. Unless you have something to offer them. Of course I'm biased, since I have Asperger's Syndrome AND social anxiety - so I suck...</p>

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The point stands - you have almost no control over your own intelligence. And intelligence is obviously important in a technologically driven society like ours."</p>

<p>No, they had opportunity. My mom came from a decent upper-middle class home, my dad a middle class home. But, still, they didn't attend college. They tell me "it wasn't for them" and that they had a difficult time with their schoolwork in secondary school.

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<p>Just because your parents aren't smart and you're the first to go to college in the entire family doesn't mean that you are smart. 50% of American teenagers now initially attempt to enroll in college - and that's a huge amount. I'm not saying you aren't smart - I'm just giving a hypothetical situation. </p>

<p>Furthermore, intelligence isn't always everything. Attention span and peer group also determine what intelligence doesn't (heck, peer group often influences whether you say something is easy or not - I even call some things that I can't do easy because I've adopted a peer group more intelligent than I am). A lot of people think that they suck at a particular subject just because they're too scared to even try. Academic achievement, of course, is far from 100% genetics - if it were, then all would find competition pointless. But intelligence still has good correlations with indicators of societal success - and once you're motivated to DO STUFF, then intelligence sorts people out - it's like controlling for cultural attitudes and peer group once you get to studying for most of your day - and there the effects of intelligence become far more pronounced. . That's the case in Asian countries - where students are spending much of their free time studying - there, since people are more unidirectionally focused on studying, peer group and cultural attitudes do less for weaning people away from studying.</p>

[simfish]

<p>
[quote]
And, most districts have alternative schools for children with learning disabilities, different learning styles, or schedules. My district has a few of these schools (about 8) which allow for LD supervision, kids who want to take classes in the evening versus the traditional schedule. And, don't tell me that "I probably live in a district more funded than an inner-city one". Inner-city ATL pays MORE per pupil than does my district.

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<p>And guess what? A lot of parents are quite reluctant to send thier kids to such schools. There's a lot of stigma associated with the phrase "my child goes to an alternative school." Besides, MANY districts don't have many programs for learning disabilities. My district doesn't - and it's a rich one.</p>

<p>Also, the pay-per-pupil is NOT correlated with educational quality, Americans spend more money per pupil than most other European and Asian countries, and our educational system still SUCKS compared to those countries</p>

[runningncircles1]

<p>"And some people like me just suck at socializing. I have Asperger's Syndrome, and a lot of those with Asperger's suck at socializing in the early years, but become better as we move up the academic hierarchy."</p>

<p>And, that's my problem HOW? I'm not a great "people person," but I suck it up and talk to people. Unfortunately, no matter how smart you are, you aren't going to be taken very seriously if you can't communicate well with others. Just because you're not a people person doesn't mean you have the right to take "smart pills," (how I detest that name).</p>

<p>"Just because your parents aren't smart and you're the first to go to college in the entire family doesn't mean that you are smart. 50% of American teenagers now initially attempt to enroll in college - and that's a huge amount. I'm not saying you aren't smart - I'm just giving a hypothetical situation. "</p>

<p>Have you read any of my other posts? I'm not intelligent just for going to college. Read everything else, please.</p>

<p>"And guess what? A lot of parents are quite reluctant to send thier kids to such schools. There's a lot of stigma associated with the phrase "my child goes to an alternative school." Besides, MANY districts don't have many programs for learning disabilities. My district doesn't - and it's a rich one."</p>

<p>Again, my problem how? If anyone's parents are reluctant to send them to a school where they can get the assistance they need yet are willing to put their children on these drugs, well, they are terrible parents.</p>

<p>"Also, the pay-per-pupil is NOT correlated with educational quality, Americans spend more money per pupil than most other European and Asian countries, and our educational system still SUCKS compared to those countries"</p>

<p>No ****. They also don't face certain burdens we do: undereduated immigrants with little or no English skills, several thousand districts teaching different concepts (including this "evolution vs. creationism" crap), and an ever-growing, extremely diverse population. Have you been to most Asian countries? The populations are extremely homogenious. Same in most European nations (except for the migration of Middle Easterners to the region, which still tend to be more educated and able to speak the native language of whatever country they go to; however Euro-nations still don't have a "melting pot" effect as found in North-American cities). These countries tend not to have a fast growing population like the United States. Italy and Japan, for instance, are expected to LOSE population, while other European nations' populations will continue to be stabilized. The United States, on the otherhand, is expected to continue increasing its population with its fairly high birthrate (high for an industrialized nation), its high migration rate, and its fairly low death rate.</p>

<p>Also, it is much harder to drop out of school in the United States than it is in many other countries; in England, for example, you can drop out at the drop of a dime whereas in America you must go through several bureaucratic procedures, and in some jurisdictions you can lose priviledges such as driver's licenses and the ability to work. So kids not interested in school, with behavioral problems, who just don't learn well and don't enjoy academia stay in the school-age population and are counted on those exams distributed world-wide while other countries don't have these kids on their rankings. These things, and the social and corporate stigma of not attaining basic secondary education in the United States, deter many from dropping out. This is why America, while not learning basic concepts the best of any country, still has one of the highest secondary graduation rates in the world.</p>

[simfish]

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And, that's my problem HOW? I'm not a great "people person," but I suck it up and talk to people. Unfortunately, no matter how smart you are, you aren't going to be taken very seriously if you can't communicate well with others. Just because you're not a people person doesn't mean you have the right to take "smart pills," (how I detest that name).

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<p>Look - AS I SAID - many people with Asperger's Syndrome just can't socialize at the school level and lack friends - but AS THEY CLIMB the academic hierarchy, they finally meet people who they can actually talk with and understand and then they finally LEARN to socialize. Look, socializing as much as most teenagers these days do IS NOT GOING TO make your social skills that good. IT COMES AT A DECREASING MARGINAL UTILITY. It's not communicating well with others - IT'S CONNECTING WITH THEM AT A CERTAIN LEVEL THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ASPIES LIKE ME.</p>

<p>THAT'S WHY WE FIND THE INTERNET MORE COMFORTABLE THAN REAL LIFE. AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A MORE ACTIVE SOCIAL LIFE WHEN WE GROW OLDER. WE JUST CAN'T MEET ANYONE WITH SHARED INTERESTS.</p>

<p>And I'm quite familiar witih the literature on Asperger's Syndrome - go pick up a book on that, and you'll find PLENTY of testimonials about those whose social lives were virtually nonexistant in school, but then developed them later in life. YOU DON'T NEED TO SOCIALIZE AS MUCH AS A NEUROTYPICAL TEENAGER EARLY ON IN ORDER TO DEVELOP THOSE SKILLS.</p>

<p>And you just revealed your bias against smart pills. Well, of course I'm pro-smart pills so I'm biased too. </p>

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Have you read any of my other posts? I'm not intelligent just for going to college. Read everything else, please.

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<p>I was not referring to you specifically, I only used the word "you" in the hypothetical situation - it could have applied to anyone else who was the first to go to college. And wow, I can see that you do have an ego. </p>

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Again, my problem how? If anyone's parents are reluctant to send them to a school where they can get the assistance they need yet are willing to put their children on these drugs, well, they are terrible parents.

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<p>Hey - something else determined by parents. This argument only serves to corroborate my point.</p>

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[quote]

No ****. They also don't face certain burdens we do: undereduated immigrants with little or no English skills, several thousand districts teaching different concepts (including this "evolution vs. creationism" crap), and an ever-growing, extremely diverse population. Have you been to most Asian countries? The populations are extremely homogenious. Same in most European nations (except for the migration of Middle Easterners to the region, which still tend to be more educated and able to speak the native language of whatever country they go to; however Euro-nations still don't have a "melting pot" effect as found in North-American cities). These countries tend not to have a fast growing population like the United States. Italy and Japan, for instance, are expected to LOSE population, while other European nations' populations will continue to be stabilized. The United States, on the otherhand, is expected to continue increasing its population with its fairly high birthrate (high for an industrialized nation), its high migration rate, and its fairly low death rate.</p>

<p>Also, it is much harder to drop out of school in the United States than it is in many other countries; in England, for example, you can drop out at the drop of a dime whereas in America you must go through several bureaucratic procedures, and in some jurisdictions you can lose priviledges such as driver's licenses and the ability to work. So kids not interested in school, with behavioral problems, who just don't learn well and don't enjoy academia stay in the school-age population and are counted on those exams distributed world-wide while other countries don't have these kids on their rankings. These things, and the social and corporate stigma of not attaining basic secondary education in the United States, deter many from dropping out. This is why America, while not learning basic concepts the best of any country, still has one of the highest secondary graduation rates in the world.

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<p>Yes, this definitely is a point that needs acknowledgement - I was about to put it in, but had to go. Indeed, the statistics show averages, and the disadvantaged in the US pull the averages down a lot. Some study needs to be done comparing between students of SIMILAR genetic and socioeconomic material - that is, comparing Americans of European ancestry who are not immigrants with Europeans - then we have CONTROLS.</p>

<p>There is a TIMSS study that shows the top US students (those taking AP Calculus, Physics) as comparable to international students who enroll in similar programs.</p>

<p>Also, credential inflation occurs with more students graduating - the value of the high school diploma decreases significantly. And a lot of classes are dumbed down too.</p>

[logicus]

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Even say, Paul Erdos?

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<p>No, he had a problem - he was old. And honestly, nothing can subtract from my admiration of Erdos. </p>

<p>For a kid though, it just seems like the kid wouldn't be someone I'd want to hang out with. Because 1) kids have lots of energy, so we don't suffer from Erdos's problem 2) Well, er, I imagine any kid who takes them would have to be incredibly anal and I try to avoid being around incredibly anal people since that generally decreases my utility.</p>

[simfish]

<p>
[quote]
For a kid though, it just seems like the kid wouldn't be someone I'd want to hang out with. Because 1) kids have lots of energy, so we don't suffer from Erdos's problem 2) Well, er, I imagine any kid who takes them would have to be incredibly anal and I try to avoid being around incredibly anal people since that generally decreases my utility.

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<p>Yeah, certain personality types are more likely to take drugs.</p>

<p>Unlike most kids, despite having a lot of sleep, I'm frustratingly tired almost all of the time. But in any case,, I do have problems with attenton span.</p>

<p>==</p>

<p>This of course, is an issue that we will never reach a consensus on - such as gay marriage or abortion - because we all argue with different notions of what's right and what's wrong. And when we argue with conflicting philosophies, then no one can really agree with each other. I can see that we have taken this thread off-topic.</p>

[simfish]

<p>Another thing: Virtually all of us don't object to the use of caffeine to boost academic performance. Why? One thing is that it's so readily available to most people - and cheap enough for most to afford - although anything with a cost does have the potential of widening the gap between rich and poor. Furthermore, caffeine is naturally present in foods that people enjoy - and it's a cultural thing.</p>

<p>However, people do react differently to caffeine. Some just don't work much more efficiently with caffeine, and some get side effects from it (like that **** stomachache I get). Indeed, there now exists more options for them - piracetam, deprenyl, adrafinil, modafinil, pyritinol, etc... However, these compounds ay produce an edge that caffeine doesn't provide.</p>

<p>If they are as accessible as caffeine and as harmless as piracetam or deprenyl, then there should be little objection to them. Heck, some of them have neuroprotective effects - and caffeine might have sme too.</p>