<p>dstark, thanks for the link to the other thread. I went in and looked some of it. very interesting. you sure stired up a big discussion there!
disagreement is allowed and is healthy. is it part of Kunt? (I still need to digest his theory.)</p>
<p>The other thread is more of this…from episode 3…</p>
<p>“1. According to philosopher Robert Nozick, when the government takes even a dollar from Bill Gates, a billionaire, and gives it to a poor person, it is like forcing Gates to work for the poor person. Is Nozick right to think that redistributive taxation is like forced labor? Should there be no redistributive taxation whatsoever?”</p>
<p>Compared to Rawls…who is in favor of redistribution to be give the greatest benefit to those worse off…</p>
<p>Of course…those are extremes…and people’s views are usually not that extreme…Most people can accept some redistribution…some… most of the arguments are …how much?</p>
<p>dstark,
WHY do you want to redistribute wealth? Basic question, I am curious to hear your opinion. </p>
<p>From what I have read, there is very little to no correlation between wealth or income and happiness. In fact, the poorer folks have more leisure time, which in our society is highly valued. Has it occurred to you that people of different income/wealth levels may be perfectly happy where they are, and therefore have tacitly chosen their situation?</p>
<p>Materialistic people tend to earn more, and that would make sense. But materialism is viewed as a negative trait. </p>
<p>If people have basic needs fulfilled - free K-12 education, housing, food and health-care, AND the opportunity to stay in school or work harder, why do you feel the need to take from the rich and give them more?</p>
<p>I don’t think the basic needs are taken care of. I’m not saying the poor or lower middle class people are saints…many aren’t…but educational needs and healthcare needs are not taken care of in this society. Free education…and a quality education are not the same thing. </p>
<p>I think society will be stronger overall with universal healthcare …at costs similar to other first world countries, and with more people educated. If that means more charter schools, or better public schools…and it costs more…we should spend the money. Those schools are making a difference. We should expand those schools. It’s an investment in the country.</p>
<p>The poor people I know are not happy being poor. As I said in another thread…I sit next to somebody that came from a poor neighborhood where the girls get pregnant as teenagers, and the guys are lucky if they make it to their 25th birthday. The poor are not choosing to be poor. The uneducated are not choosing to be uneducated. They don’t know there is a choice.</p>
<p>Studies show that after a certain level of happiness, the amount of income doesn’t matter. But that level isn’t food stamps, poor schools, lack of healthcare, etc. I read the Princeton study that said money didn’t matter. Except it did a little.</p>
<p>I think money matters. I’m not giving my money away and living on $20,000 a year.</p>
<p>I’ll admit to living in a nice suburban bubble. I don’t personally know many “poor” people. Like a previous poster, I did have a babysitter once who was a high school drop out, because she “didn’t like school.” (First terrible choice). She married an illegal immigrant (second terrible choice), who had a steady job in a plant applying the paint to kitchen appliances. They lived in a one bedroom apartment in the “bad” part of a middle-class city, but the area really was not bad, I felt safe there, it was about 10 blocks from the “nice” part of town. They didn’t own a car, but took the bus everywhere. They had lots of friends and were very active with their church, and by all apparent measures, they seemed quite happy. They had a TV, stereo and microwave.</p>
<p>The girl ended up getting pregnant, and got free pre-natal care through the State, and showed up to deliver at the emergency room of the same hospital where my kids were delivered. I kept in touch for a few years, and she always talked about wanting to put her daughter in a really good school. She and her husband were able to find an affordable apartment near the best of the public schools in her district, so I guess she did it. </p>
<p>If you asked her if she wished she had more money, she would probably say “yes,” but wouldn’t 99.9% of people? I suspect her life is pretty representative of America’s poor.</p>
<p>Bay… I don’t know about the people you mentioned in your post, but is happiness the measure to use to decide if we are living in a just society?</p>
<p>So if we decide not to educate a large segment of the population…and they end up dumb and ignorant…is that really good for our society? After all, the dumb and ignorant are happy.</p>
<p>Happiness may not be the measure of a just society, but who cares about a just society if it means everyone is equally miserable? (or even equally “just okay.”)</p>
<p>Equal opportunity is the key to a just society. Not equal result. Some people who are presented with an opportunity do not want to take it, and that should be fine, but it should also be fine that they then must live with the consequences, and many of them probably happily are. I don’t think we should be trying to fix everyone’s lives and making them live to a certain defined standard if that is not what they chose.</p>
<p>I don’t think America’s problems stem from lack of opportunity (I mean in the theoretical sense, not the current economy -obviously few job opportunities now). I think it is more of a cultural malaise, an acceptable cycle of existence, and teacher unions.</p>
<p>I don’t think it has been proven that throwing more money at schools changes things. In fact, I recall a study that showed throwing money at a terrible school had no effect. (I think it was in Chicago - don’t have any cites).</p>
<p>“I don’t think it has been proven that throwing more money at schools changes things. In fact, I recall a study that showed throwing money at a terrible school had no effect. (I think it was in Chicago - don’t have any cites).”</p>
<p>Money does have an affect if it is spent right.</p>
<p>"Equal opportunity is the key to a just society. Not equal result. Some people who are presented with an opportunity do not want to take it, and that should be fine, but it should also be fine that they then must live with the consequences, and many of them probably happily are. I don’t think we should be trying to fix everyone’s lives and making them live to a certain defined standard if that is not what they chose.</p>
<p>I don’t think America’s problems stem from lack of opportunity (I mean in the theoretical sense, not the current economy -obviously few job opportunities now). I think it is more of a cultural malaise, an acceptable cycle of existence, and teacher unions." </p>
<p>We don’t have equal opportuntity. Why pretend that we do? I can just go across the Richmond Bridge and see that we don’t. I can just go to the canal district in San Rafael…Marin City…(these are areas near me).</p>
<p>People don’t know the opportunities. I need a few things done…and if it wasn’t for other people…I wouldn’t have a clue myself. Luckily…I have access. Many people are raised in broken homes. They are hungry. Can’t rely on their parents. Don’t have anybody to look up to. The churches don’t help. Education is not stressed. There is no support. They don’t have access.
That is not equal to what I had…and I didn’t grow up rich either. Plus…I was a first born. ;)</p>
<p>And why pick on the teachers union? You’re picking on teachers. My mother-in-law was a teacher. My aunt. My sister.
They were good teachers. Well respected. They did the best they could. Teachers can only do so much.</p>
<p>My sister taught in an area with kids from broken homes. The kids were starving. The parents were messed up. Some of the kids had learning issues. Some were disabled. One or two had to wear diapers. This is 2nd and 3rd grade.
It was not easy.</p>
<p>"“Finished” the course! Wish I could take the quizzes without the grading part. </p>
<p>I like how MacIntyre’s communitarian theory challenges the traditional philosophy (all of them) by the arguments of emotion and “common sense”. </p>
<p>Just watched “quiz show” on video. A good story that shows a good bit of conflict between utilitarianism and Kant. (with correct spelling of his name. :)) when asked to do the show in NBC’s way, VanDoren asked what Kant would think of this, or sth. like that, rang a bell in my mind.</p>