<p>+1 Hanna (post #15, above)
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<p>mini-it is a “mutual” violation without consent as an element. What Williams does about the violation is determined by the process.</p>
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<p>Agreed. Whatever benefit might result from the Williams policy is more than outweighed by its very real potential to discourage the reporting of sexual assaults.</p>
<p>I can envision a rape counseling session very much like the ones described as occurring at Amherst: “Well, dear, I can understand that you’re upset by what you say happened . . . but you do understand, don’t you, that if you report it, the school may have to expel you?”</p>
<p>It’s an absolutely unconscionable policy.</p>
<p>" What Williams does about the violation is determined by the process."</p>
<p>Then we can say for sure that expulsion is extremely unlikely. They expelled four rapists last year. They hadn’t expelled any others for a decade (I believe), but there is no reason to believe there were fewer rapists then. (Again, there have be several dozen rapists walking around the Williams campus today.) I’m sure there were lots of other disciplinary actions. </p>
<p>Williams makes it very clear that drinking does NOT prevent one giving valid consent. It is physical or mental incapacitation. So what they’ve done is address a “he said-she said” situation where the evidence suggests both were incapacitated. It isn’t perfect, but I think it’s a pretty good rule. </p>
<p>Why Williams and Amherst feel so comfortable with more than half of their student bodies being a bunch of drunken sots (and where approximately 15% of them will end up as alcoholics or having serious alcohol problems later in life) is another question entirely.</p>
<p>It seems clear that if one is sexually assaulted on a campus by a fellow student, one should report it to the municipal police (not campus police) immediately. If the college tried to discipline you on the grounds of being drunk or something, I imagine the publicity would be so negative that the college would back down. </p>
<p>Universities (like all institutions) are inclined to protect themselves and avoid trouble. Individual employees may want to do the right thing, but in the absence of a police report, there is little that can be done.</p>
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<p>I agree. Especially since it gives the college the ability to let other students whose college experience is being lessened by this conduct of others have a disciplinary means of stopping it.</p>
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<p>Not so sure the questions are unrelated. Binge drinking by 21 and older college females is on the rise.</p>
<p>[College</a> reports stats on sexual assault ? The Williams Record](<a href=“http://williamsrecord.com/2012/02/22/college-reports-stats-on-sexual-assault/]College”>http://williamsrecord.com/2012/02/22/college-reports-stats-on-sexual-assault/)</p>
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<p>As noted by JHS in post #42, the Williams policy allows enormous leeway for selective enforcement. I appreciate the attempt to deal with a difficult problem, but discretionary enforcement of an overly broad rule is not the solution.</p>
<p>“As noted by JHS in post #42, the Williams policy allows enormous leeway for selective enforcement. I appreciate the attempt to deal with a difficult problem, but discretionary enforcement of an overly broad rule is not the solution.”</p>
<p>Well, we’ll have to disagree. What Williams is trying to do (with great difficulty, it must be understood) is to change the norms of acceptable behavior, not find new ways to punish students. Will mistakes be made? You bet! Just as currently. Only the former policy has it that if the male is inebriated, it doesn’t matter - all that matters is that the female is.</p>
<p>And where is the MOST selective enforcement? That’s simple. The local police.</p>
<p>Does anyone know when the Williams policy went into effect? If recently it would seem to be an attempt to address what the Williams Record calls “a higher prevalence of rape and sexual assault at the College than at peer institutions.” If this is an older policy the stats. from the ACHA survey (see link to story in post #67) would indicate it’s an ineffective way of dealing with sexual assaults on campus.</p>
<p>I wonder how many people who post on this board have been sexually assaulted but did not report it immediately.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is uncommon. </p>
<p>Ideally, I suppose, anyone who is the victim of a crime should report it immediately. But rape is not exactly the same thing as having your car stolen. There are a lot more complex feelings involved, and I can see several reasons why a person might be reluctant to go to the authorities.</p>
<p>I was glad to see that @absweetmarie has the same concerns about this article that I did. The tone of it–the hints of persecution and paranoia–bothered me right from the start and set off little bells of doubt. The girl comes from a very troubled background, and her writing suggests she is still unstable emotionally. She kept the assault a secret from the police, administrations and even her friends for an extended period of time, which is not a typical reaction in this day and age. For all we know she had a substantial history with the counseling services at Amherst which she is not revealing (and which they can’t reveal) and which could explain much of the school’s handling of the situation. We don’t know what actually precipitated her stint at the psychiatric hospital, though it seems surprising that a single comment would lead to such an extreme result. I think there’s a lot we don’t know here, including the girl’s current mental state and reputation for veracity, and I would certainly refrain from condemning Amherst’s handling of the situation based on her allegations alone. Maybe everything happened just as she says it did; maybe not.</p>
<p>absweetmarie, re: post 52, I might agree with you had I not read the comments to Angie’s story and the president’s response. Both point to a pattern and practice of reaction that fits with this young woman’s account. Whether her perspective was colored by the trauma she experienced or not, I don’t doubt that it was sufficiently true that it should be accepted as such. I’m saddened that her account can’t stand on its own and that there is any tendency to question her credibility based on her “mental illness.” </p>
<p>President Martin: In response to her story, still more accounts of unreported sexual violence have appeared in social media postings and in emails I have received from several students and alumni. Clearly, the administrations responses to reports have left survivors feeling that they were badly served.</p>
<p>MommaJ, schools absolutely react that quickly to a single comment that suggests suicidal ideation. You may or may not remember a tragic suicide at MIT some years ago after a young woman expressed suicidal thoughts to a counselor. The counselor did not hospitalize her nor did she tell her parents. The parents sued the school.</p>
<p>While I’m sure there is more here than we know, again, I was struck by the comments to the story, the reaction of the president of the college, and by my own daughters’ accounts of friends’ experiences. It is NOT the norm for young women to report rape immediately: look at the wide range of reactions in this thread alone. It’s far too common for young women to worry about how they will be received by the police and instead think they can put it away and forget the experience only to have it come back to haunt them later. People don’t always behave rationally in the face of trauma.</p>
<p>“I am not personally convinced that this young woman is a wholly reliable narrator based on what I have read.”</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is a wholly reliable narrator even as to their own thoughts, words, and actions a year ago at a time of extreme stress. This goes double for the words and actions of others. Humans are really terrible at remembering conversations in a way that would match a secret recording of the conversation. That just isn’t how we encode memories of our interactions. It’s not just our memory that is biased; it is our perception.</p>
<p>“We all know what the guy’s side of the story would be; any one of us could write a reasonable approximation of it.”</p>
<p>Here, I disagree. I think there are a lot of different stories you might hear from a young man in this situation, some that would mitigate his responsibility if true and others that would not. He might have corroborating evidence for a wildly different story. On the other hand, he might confirm her account, deliberately or inadvertently. His version might make it even worse (the laughing roommates were in on the scheme?). All of these scenarios have played out before.</p>
<p>“She kept the assault a secret from the police, administrations and even her friends for an extended period of time, which is not a typical reaction in this day and age.”</p>
<p>Unfortunately, my impression from professionals in the field is that there are still too many victims who tell no one.</p>
<p>The take-away, for me, is that this is a disturbing account that merits serious investigation by the school. It is not, by itself, enough for me to discourage my female students from going to Amherst. (I have one right now who is strongly considering Amherst ED, so it’s not an academic question for me.) This particular alleged assailant either has graduated or will shortly; the important question now is how the staff and leadership at this college act to prevent and respond to rape. And I just don’t feel confident about that based on the evidence we have.</p>
<p>I agree that we can’t know exactly what happened. However, I think it unlikely that the president of Williams would have issued the particular statement she issued if there was absolutely no basis for the young woman’s statements.</p>
<p>re post 73: the paragraph after President Martin: should be quoted. Those were her words not mine.</p>
<p>“The girl comes from a very troubled background, and her writing suggests she is still unstable emotionally.”</p>
<p>MommaJ - The “girl” has a name and a rape victim’s background has absolutely nothing to do with her capability to understand and express to others that she was raped. And I could not disagree with you more about Angie’s writing. I found the piece to be straight from the heart, written by someone who is still very much in deep pain. She has found her voice and wants it to be heard. I don’t think any of us have enough facts to make any kind of judgment.</p>
<p>I think there is probably much more to this story than meets the eye. I am sure that writing this was part of her catharsis, but to take it at face value or draw conclusions without benefit of any other point of view would also be negligent.</p>
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<p>Do you know Angie personally? If not, how do you know she came from a “very troubled backgound?”</p>
<p>I did a quick google. This young woman’s background looks pretty darn stable to me. As of her senior year in high school, her parents were alive and married to each other. Angie seems to have had a good relationship with them.</p>
<p>In high school, she was a Girl Scout. She worked as a counselor in training at a Girl Scout camp for two summers. (Somehow I doubt she could get that job twice if she was a messed up kid.) She ran track and cross country. She belonged to a group that knit for charity. She is a very good artist and loves photography. (She won a local scholarship of $1,000 for her art work and you can find lots of her photos on-line.) She was in an IB program. </p>
<p>She ran track at Amherst. </p>
<p>Now, please tell me you know she came from " a very troubled background."</p>