A Harrowing Tale of Sexual Assault at Amherst College

Parents Forum
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<p>At the very minimum a friend could document with a phone (that has a camera) or by “telling” someone immediate create a documentation. Not telling, not doing is NOT the answer.</p>

<p>I’m not ignorant, I know alcohol reduces inhibitions and creates an environment where non-consensual sex can occur. The only time i got myself in a “situation” that required immediate action on my part to get the heck out of that situation there was alcohol. Empowerment without accountability does not work. Our women are now empowered but we cannot forget the accountability part of the equation. Men were already empowered and we need to make them accountable also. We cannot empower both yet make only one half (or 47% at some colleges) accountable.</p>

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<p>Did you even read what I wrote?</p>

<p>I never suggested that anyone who answered the surveyed lied. I did suggest that people who had been the victims of sexual assault MIGHT, just MIGHT, be more likely to reply to the survey than those who had not. </p>

<p>One could just as easily argue that those who had been the victims of assault would be LESS likely to respond out of a desire to avoid the topic altogether. </p>

<p>In any case, AS I SAID AND YOU CHOSE TO IGNORE:</p>

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<p>I am increasingly convinced that binge drinking and sexual assault are not only related, but the most significant issues facing college and university administrations now.</p>

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<p><a href=“This%20begs%20the%20question%20of%20why–in%20YOUR%20scenario–%20she%20does%20not%20just%20get%20the%20hell%20up%20and%20LEAVE%20when%20he%20pauses%20to%20put%20on%20a%20condom!%20But%20of%20course,%20the%20reality%20is%20probably%20that%20she%20is%20blotto,%20incapacitated,%20drunk%20on%20her%20ass.%20The%20classic%20drunken%20hookup.”>quote</a>

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<p>Nope…but that’s what too many cops would say. All he has to do is get between her and the door. Or just get to the door almost as soon as she does. (It is, after all, very likely to be locked and it will take her some time to unlock it, especially if it’s double bolted. )</p>

<p>I don’t know what planet you live on. On the one where I live, most young men are much stronger physically than young women. So, if they really want to physically hurt them, they can. And, while you may not understand this reaction, if a young woman realizes that if she doesn’t resist, she’ll get raped and if she does resist she’ll get raped and beaten, she may just choose not to resist…even though the bruises might help convince others that she didn’t consent.</p>

<p>But no…in your world…the young woman who is raped has to fight as hard as she can so she’s so beaten up someone will believe her. Then she has to ask someone to take photos of her. Then she has to get herself to an ER and ask for a rape kit. Then she has to press charges. If she fails to do all of these…well, obviously, it was a “classic drunken hook up.” </p>

<p>I hope you don’t have a daughter.</p>

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<p>You seem to be absolutely determined to cast things in a way that makes me blame the victim. This is simply untrue.</p>

<p>I think that in fact we are on the same side. We abhor rape and sexual assault. We want to empower women. The only question is how to do it. </p>

<p>I don’t see any constructive suggestions from the hand-wringing contingent: I just see–ironically–attacks on other women who believe that empowerment of women is, ultimately, the only thing that will work.</p>

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<p>I think most people know what to do if they are robbed. We all know we are supposed to protect our purses, lock out cars and houses, install alarm systems whatever. Sure a victim might have left their front door open or their purse lying on the seat of an unlocked car or unattended in a bar. They may have been robbed at gunpoint or they may not have realized the robbery was occurring as with a pickpocket, but they know they need to call the police and they know they have been robbed. </p>

<p>Sex is a more problematic topic. Some parents are loath to discuss sex with kids. Some parents simply don’t believe the kids are having sex. Some kids don’t know what the rules are or if there are any rules. We don’t have clear trusted path for victims of sexual crimes. We have people saying that the victim will be treated as a criminal. We have people saying it’s not rape if it’s not forced or violent. Yet we have a culture where casual sex is accepted. It’s not, Jonri, that some of us don’t believe rape occurs or don’t believe that it’s rape if the woman has had a few drinks and is alone with a guy in his dorm room. It’s not until women use the system that is in place, and are empowered to be as vocal about non-consensual sex as consensual sex will change occur. And yes unfortunately women need to guard their bodies like they guard their purses and we need to make sure we teach our young women those lessons as well. We need to address those colleges where drinking culture is prevalent since clearly alcohol is often the fuel for non-consensual sex. Frankly, I’ve fought to long and too hard to seen as an equal in the business place, in society, and the big guy gave me three boys instead of a daughter I would have loved to have had etc. to not get defenssive when people use the ‘men are strong, women are weak’ battle cry. I can be moved to tears by women who write about rapes that occurred in the past where they did nothing, but I can’t but stop and wonder why they didn’t’ tell anyone, do anything. Time for a new voice.</p>

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<p>You really are a vicious *****.</p>

<p>Disgusting.</p>

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<p>If anything has come out of the Sandusky ,coaching, Boy Scout “perversion files”, female teachers with teenage boys stories,etc., it has shown more and more that boys are not immune.</p>

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<p>No, Consolation, THIS is disgusting:</p>

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<p>Are you kidding??? Or are you really that out of touch with reality? I see this scenario all too often - not in acquaintance rapes, but in stranger rapes. However aberrant they may be, most rapists know better than to leave DNA behind. A 200-lb. man puts his knee on a woman’s chest . . . where the hell is she going to go??? I realize that I am repeating what jonri already said so eloquently - but many man are readily capable of overpowering a woman, either because they are stronger than she is or because they outweigh her.</p>

<p>So, if a condom is used and the woman doesn’t just “get up and slip out the door,” it’s not rape? And then we wonder why rape victims hesitate to report the crime . . . sheesh!</p>

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<p>Consolation I agree that was an uncalled for comment. All it does is discredit the poster’s comments. It is exactly that type of comment and attitude that can defeat any dialogue by women as a group.</p>

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<p>Dogersmom you aren’t reading what you are writing or what others are writing…are you saying that your supposed overpowered, forcibly raped woman with his knee on her chest should NOT go to the police? What are you saying?? That is an entirely different scenario than Jonri posted of the woman who is on her third date, has a few drinks, goes back to the guys room, kisses a few times, fondles etc. and perhaps had a point in time when she could have left before non consensual sex occurs. There are many, many scenarios, the reality is that it isn’t ALWAYS a 200 pound guy with his knee on a woman’s chest forcing her to have sex. That’s just one scenario.</p>

<p>What do you two (Jonri and Dodgers) propose a woman should do IF she finds herself after an evening of non-consensual sex? What about the woman who drinks too much and has a black out and wakes up in the morning and realizes she had sex with someone she knew from class or a party and thnks she remembers say no no no? What about the woman who is all snuggled in a dorm room under a blanket with a “friend” watching a movie and drinking a beer and he rolls over and starts getting sexually aggressive and the girl can’t extricate herself. What do those women DO? What do they WANT to have happen. If they want it adjudicated how do you ascribe guilt or innocence. That is the question. I suspect some of those women who have been in similar scenarios answered the Amherst questionnaire answering yes they have been raped and I suspect they don’t tell anyone or report it except in the anonymity of a survey.</p>

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<p>Last year or so, we had a long thread about Title IX, the threat of accusations against sons, the fears T9 generates because it only requires “a preponderance of evidence” for the college to expel, reprimand or otherwise take action against the accused. It’s worth reading the two most recet “Dear Colleague” letters, which clearly state the expectations of/from the college, regardless of whether police are involved. If any school doesn’t have adequate compliance, they should take steps to, whether or not all agree with T9 itself. And, that seems to be just what the pres of Amhert has gotten rolling. </p>

<p>Mini, my concern about any study is that not all questions generate a simple, fast, clear-cut Yes or No answer. I wonder who here has asked a daughter what they know of sexual assaults on campus, how they view different levels of threat, what situations they or friends have been placed in, how they reacted and how they would react.</p>

<p>As for the astericks and other needling, I think it does possibly parallel just how fast society is to judge. That’s worrisome.</p>

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<p>Agree. And add Greek life to the mix–at many schools it defines the social culture on campus, and has binge drinking is at its core. I get that fraternities and sororities do good things. But in many cases they foster an environment that is full of risk for female students.</p>

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<p>“Mini, my concern about any study is that not all questions generate a simple, fast, clear-cut Yes or No answer.”</p>

<p>Oh, yes they do. And in this case, a particularly simple, fast, clear-cut Yes or No answer. Let’s be clear: the survey gave people a choice of how to answer: they could have checked forcible sexual penetration (rape), forcible sexual assault, sexual assault, sexual harassment. These distinctions were clear in the survey, the questions were tested with focus groups in advance, and people answering them knew what they were reporting. And since the survey was anonymous, yet so clear, the only way I can see any significant difference in the numbers is to assume that women at Williams, Amherst, and elsewhere not only lie, they lie in one particular direction. (By the way, scientific survey work does have ways to account for lying - but that’s another subject. And ways to deal with non-responsiveness.)</p>

<p>And, no, it is unlikely that hundreds of women at Amherst reported they had been sexually assaulted to the administration (no less the police) last year. Remember: these women, from experience, and from secondhand experience, know that they are going to have live to with the assaulters, and the rapists, and - even more critically the assaulters’ and rapists’ friends - for up to four years, and see them on a daily basis. In the culture that seems to exist at Amherst (and elsewhere), if you were a young woman, would you be ready to make a decision to do so?</p>

<p>It’s really an uphill battle. I found Angie’s article not particularly surprising in most respects, and I fully expect there are likely a dozen women at Amherst (over four years) with somewhat similar stories. </p>

<p>"I am increasingly convinced that binge drinking and sexual assault are not only related, but the most significant issues facing college and university administrations now. "</p>

<p>You’d never know by the way they act. Put it in the USNWR rankings, and…</p>

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<p>dodgersmom, that is NOT the scenario Jonri proposed and NOT the one I was commenting on. </p>

<p>A person who is physically overpowered clearly cannot just get up and leave.</p>

<p>Get a grip. Or put down your pitchfork and torch long enough to read.</p>

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<p>Consolation - </p>

<p>I’m sorry, I don’t see where the misunderstanding is. I quoted words from YOUR [YOUR</a> post](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14956500-post155.html]YOUR”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14956500-post155.html).</p>

<p>Or are you suggesting that it is rape when a stranger holds a woman down and puts on a condom, but it isn’t when an acquaintance does it? The scenario that you were commenting on was an acquaintance rape scenario . . . but the fact that the assailant is an acquaintance does not preclude the use of force.</p>

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<p>(Full disclosure: my older d. was recruited at Williams, and turned it down for, among other reasons, her experience there with first-year women’s alcohol abuse, and turned down Amherst after her experience of total male domination in two classroom settings. I’d love to feel better about my alma mater than I do. And I think the new President is not likely to allow things to be business as usual - which might mean he has a short stay.)</p>

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<p>Mini, clearly you have access to more info than I do- the Williams Record link from Redpoint uses the phrase, “sexual penetration without consent.” I am trying hard not to state anything that seems to take sides.<br>
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<p>Btw, can we just quit putting down other posters? Especially when discussing rape, where so many are quick to put down one side or the other.</p>

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<p>By the way, regarding “sampling bias” . . . I can’t see what relevance it would have unless we’re talking about the percentage of those surveyed who claim to have been raped. But there was no reference to a percentage - simply to a number of women. Sampling bias would have no impact the number of women claiming to have been raped.</p>

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<p>Yes, a percentage: Survey results for the College reported that within the last 12 months…4.4 percent of females and 0.3 percent of males experienced sexual penetration without consent. Of 2106 students, 832 responded. From the Williams Record.</p>

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<p>momofthreeboys - Sorry if I confused things with my reference to stranger rape. I was just trying to point out that the “pause” while an assailant puts on a condom (regardless of whether it’s a stranger or an acquaintance) is not likely to offer the victim an opportunity to escape. But if I muddied things, I apologize.</p>

<p>As for the various scenarios you describe, bottom line is that no means no. And if a would-be sex partner is too inebriated to give knowing consent, that also means no.</p>