<p>From your mouth to God's ears!</p>
<p>I think that your daughter should work on the rest of her applications. Since Amherst uses the common application and has some really great essay questions, both can be retooled for other colleges without totally re-inventing the wheel (D used her Amherst app as her optional essay for some schools). </p>
<p>She should get the rest of her paperwork together the rest of the recommendations, supplemental essays and short answers together so if the worse happens and she does not get in ED, everything is ready to drop in the mail.</p>
<p>She should also submit if she hasn 't done so yet, a rolling application so at least by the time the ED decision comes back she most likely has an admissions under her belt (it also helps to relieve some of the tension in the house).</p>
<p>hey there aparent5 -- no need to take personal swipes at my book. It was the first one to reveal the inside process and was and is the exact way admissions worked from the inside. Of course HYP don't want you to know about the AI, but it has been around for years. I'd add that I agree with you on the Chuck Hughes book -- it's excellent and one of my favorites -- I find it 100% whereas others I read are much less so. Dartmouth was part of the all Ivy meetings (plus MIT) so we certainly were privvy to admissions practices at other Ivies as admissions officers. Anyway, I think you might want to take the Yale office's opinion with a grain of salt. Don't you think they just might have a bias against inside info? Ask yourself, which school is THE hardest to get into and rejects all sorts of "perfect" kids -- Yale would certainly be up there. There is zero misinformation in my book -- Yale does some things differently but I did point those out where appropriate. I'm happy to answer specific queries with you privately if you feel there are errors, but to make a blanket statement like that with no evidence besides an offended admissions officer seems a bit harsh. PS -- although some of my older threads were removed and were under a different name, I've been a member on CC for several years and have always respectfully answered questions. If you have any for me, shoot.</p>
<p>Sorry, Michele, I didn't see it as a "personal swipe" since all I did was quote a Yale adcom's statements about a book made in a public meeting. I can understand that you would experience it as personal since you were on the thread, but actually I hadn't noticed you. I am always surprised to see you here. </p>
<p>Thanks for the advice offer, but admissions are all taken care of in our family. If you have any advice on how to pay off those Ivy tuitions, now, that would be very nice... ;)</p>
<p>"For elite admissions, I'd go by Chuck Hughes's Book ("What It Really Takes..."), which has by far the most specific info of any book I have seen; he is a former Harvard adcom and really helps you see how colleges sift through the excellent and stellar applicants."</p>
<p>We all read the same books and draw different conclusions. I truly enjoyed many parts of Hughes' book, but would not consider it "the best" by a far margin. On the subject of the stellar applicants, one has to wonder how many of the "cases" would still receive an acceptance letter today. In the meantime, it did go a long way to show that mere mortals DO have a fighting chance. In addition, the biggest value of the book was to show that admissions' officers are not above making mistakes as Hughes' own command of grammar indicates. </p>
<p>"As I have said before, when we visited Yale the adcom there announced he didn't know how Michele Hernandez slept at night, given how full of misinformation he believed her book to be."</p>
<p>Could the good Yale adcom exhibit a severe case of mistaken identity? There are authors named Katherine and Rachel out there that could fight for the title of most misinformative author. Obviously, there might be a little Yale pride involved as the authors attended Yale -if I remember correctly. On the other hand, the "not sleeping" at night" has been brandished a few times (see Thacker), but in the context of the "exorbitant" fees paid by parents to high-priced consultants. There is no need to rekindle the debate about expensive consultants, but we could agree that a $11 dollar book should not painted with the same brush. </p>
<p>Not too long along, I was asked to pick an admission's book as a gift for a school principal and this forced me to reread several books, including A for A. I have mentioned that I did not think that her second book -the one on applications- was a good as the first one. However, I really do not see where all the misinformation that offended the Yale person is supposed to hide. Just as the Chuck's book, A for Admission does shows its patina -a nice way to say old age- and some of the breaking news is now old news. There is, however, a huge step between misinformation and lack of actuality. Most everyone agrees that the "bible" on essay writing was penned by Harry Bauld. Yet, it is also full of dust and does have several weak passages. It is hard to stay on the top, but let's not forget that Hernandez paved the way for many. </p>
<p>In my view, every book presents a different twist and helps frame the "debate" better -even the Toor's and Cohen's books which I consider awful. I have my favorites: first, nobody comes close to Bill Maher's Admission Mystique in helping families navigate the admission's Styx and, then the newly released book by Sally Stringer -Admission Matters- is such a wonderfully researched, beautifully written, objective and comprehensive book that it represents the antithesis of Jay Matthews' prior effort.</p>
<p>To the OP, Keep in mind that the college admissions books are written to wake up and educate the masses of parents and students who have NO CLUE. They are the people who, unfortunately, never read the books. Really, I meet parents every day whose kids are applying to schools they have no business considering. For them it only leads to disappointment. You are not that parent and your d is not that applicant. </p>
<p>Should your d not be admitted ED it will not mean she blew the app. The adcoms have their own perspective, concerns, etc., which extend beyond each applicant's individual merit. No kid can apply to top schools without recognizing that it's a long shot for everyone, short of the kids who are USA Today Academic First Team types, with national credentials in more than one field. It behooves us to discourage our kids from feeling any particular school is their One and Only, because there's just no telling, but I'm sure your d will be admitted to a school where she will be very happy. And here's hoping it's Amherst!</p>
<p>Xiggi, what I liked about Hughes's book was that he wrote very specifically about ECs. For example, he pointed out that for a dancer, the Harvard adcom is going to be more impressed if a student has participated in X summer program than in Y (naming names), and if she has performed a solo variation in Z competition rather than dancing in the corps. He does the same for other ECs. This kind of info seems to be well-known by people looking to be recruited athletes, but I haven't seen it spelled out in other books. The details themselves, as you say, change over time, but an applicant paying close attention to the fine distinctions Hughes draws will recognize that adcoms are looking for much more than a particular AI.</p>
<p>However, we are all entitled to have our favorite authors. :)</p>
<p>That's okay aparent5, I don't have to be your favorite authors. I've read all the others books, believe me. Just that there is a difference between outdated info and misinformation. For all the years its been out, not one actual admissions person has pointed out any errors. Even when Karl Furstenberg was letting off steam about how angry he was about the book, when a reporter asked him what wasn't true, he had to dodge the question. The main issue is that admissions is MORE competitive now than when the book came out, so as I said, academics 8's and 9's are not auto admits anymore, but the PROCESS is the same -- only the competition is higher. Nothing significant as far as process has changed at all.
And regarding Ivy tuitions, just be glad your kids are older! Mine are 2 and 8, so I'll have to sell my house and live in a trailer when their time comes!</p>
<p>Aparent5, I am in total agreement with you and I liked the EC chapters of Hughes very much. I also like the book and consider it very worthy of a good recommendation. I believe that it is nice to poach a few gems from each book, and that is why I like to go back and check them again. Some paragraphs "sound" different and I even find some redeeming values in books I hated at the first read. </p>
<p>There are more than 4,000 colleges, tens of thousands of admission offciers, and millions of candidates. And I am sure that every one of them has a good opinion on the much debated subject of college admissions. My opinion is only one of them!</p>
<p>Poor BJM8 ... the waiting is just miserable. All you can really do is make sure plan B is ready to go, and also to talk up the merits of match and likely admit schools should Amherst not come through. I thoroughly agree with Sybbie's post - if the ED doesn't come through, its going to be really hard to do the apps. Thanksgiving break might be a good time. The week before the ED notice will likely be intolerable - nothing much will happen then.</p>
<p>This is a fascinating article on the Williams admissions process (Thanks to MikeyD!)</p>
<p>Theres a fair amount of fluff here, but the article gives a good insight into how an LAC adcom crafts a class in addition to reviewing individual. In describing the journey of applications through the process the article emphasizes the extreme scrutiny that each application receives especially the ones that are not auto-admits. Every facet is examined by more than one person and often discussed by committee.</p>
<p>The part quoted below reaffirms that the academic rating IS only one piece of the mosaic.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Two readers examine each folder independently, without seeing each others comments, and assess them in three major ways. Each applicant gets an academic rating from 1 to 9 that focuses heavily on his or her high school grades, standardized test scores, the rigor of his or her academic program within the context of the school setting and the strength of teacher recommendations. Then there is a non-academic rating from 1 to 6, assessing a students level and length of involvement in school and outside activities.</p>
<p>The readers also assign any of more than 30 attributes that admissions uses to identify exceptional traits. Some of these are easily quantified, such as being the child or grandchild of an alumnus, a member of a minority group, and impact athlete or a local resident. Other more subjective tags draw attention (usually but not always favorably) to something special about a candidate, like a powerful passion or aptitude for scientific research or an interest in getting a non-science Ph.D. Among the most significant of these is the intellectual vitality or IVIT code, which marks a candidate as having extraordinary academic depth/talent or being a classroom catalyst who would have a significant impact in labs or class discussions
[/quote]
</p>
<p>BJM8, It sounds as if your daughter submitted a strong and thoughtful application. My guess is that the Amherst adcom operates much like Williams and that they will see her as a good catch. For us, the best way to fill the wait time to December 15 was to try to put the ED school out of mind and work assiduously on the other apps.</p>
<p>I am amazed at how nice and helpful you all have been. We will take the advice and start preparing the other applications; looks like Smith, Brown, Wellesley, and Tufts. D is determined to stay near home, but we are very lucky to have so many great schools in the northeast. Little did I realize when I started this thread that we would have Ms. Hernandez posting. I never had the opportunities that my D has; partly because I was the first from my family to attend college, and secondly because I never put in that much effort in H.S. Working very hard for what I have today is rewarding, but I want more for my D, as I'm sure you do also for your kids. The conversations regarding the different books is eye opening. We only have one child and do not have to go through this again; but what an experience! My D realizes that Amherst is a reach for many students who apply each year, and as good as her stats are, she is level headed enough to know that there are no promises. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. But if we hear good news by Dec. 15th, we're gonna have a great celebration on her behalf.</p>
<p>Though a little dated, this piece also provides a look at the admissions process and suggests that the things that tip the scale one way or another are often a matter of subjective interpretation and largely out of one's control. <a href="http://www.scfun.net/sceduc-cl-newsweek.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.scfun.net/sceduc-cl-newsweek.pdf</a></p>
<p>Let's hope it tips in your D's direction. Good luck.</p>