A little Advice from the Parents Please!

Parents Forum
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<p>I posted this in the high school life forum, however; I'd really like to hear parents thoughts on this, any advice you might have on going at this pursuit!</p>

<p>"I've had straight As in history my entire life. Its the easiest course in the world to me. I should have moved up freshman year, I didn't. I should have moved up this year, well I didn't. But currently in USI I'm finished entire history tests between 9-15 minutes, and getting perfect scores. I've started a pursuit to try and convince three people to let me move up to US history AP for my junior year. I really love history, and I really want to, for once, be challenged in the subject. </p>

<p>The three people I need to convince are: my current history teacher, my guidance counselor, and the social studies department head. At this point I've convinced my current history teacher, and my guidance counselor. They both agreed I'm qualified enough to move up, however; two things stand in my way. First off, the prerequisite for AP US history, is USI honors. Second I have to somehow convince the social studies department head to let me take AP US history despite not having met this requirement for the course. </p>

<p>I really want this, so I took the extra step, and went to my history teacher (who also teaches USI honors) and asked if I could borrow an American Pageant textbook, outline a chapter, and then take a test to see how I do on an honors level test. He agreed, and today I spent practically the entire day, with decent breaks, completing the outline, and on tuesday I will take the honors test.</p>

<p>Does anybody have any advice, using the information I've given, on how to confront the department head with this idea? I've yet to talk to her, mainly cause I'm almost certain I'll be rejected, but if I don't try, I won't ever know. Hopefully I'll do well on this test and I can show her it, but otherwise, please give me advice on what to say!"</p>

<p>I'm open to anything you guys come up with! I'm hoping with advice from both high school students, and parents, I can figure out a way to politely present my idea to the department head! Thanks in advance!</p>

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<p>I’m not a parent, but to be frank, I highly doubt APUSH is going to challenge you. Now that I think about it, no history class has ever felt challenging (and I’ve take quite a few college history classes) in the sense that machine learning or electromagnetism are challenging. So don’t expect to suddenly be overwhelmed in that class.</p>

<p>If your department head isn’t a jack*** she/he will probably let you do it. But really, don’t worry too much about it. As a history nut myself, I found my personal study of history to encompass much more “challenging” material than the American pageant. If you’re really passionate about history, forget about the class. I did all 3 AP history tests my junior year, and they were all easy as hell (self-studied for 2 of them) and not particularly rewarding. Reading through all six volumes of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbons, on the other hand, was a much more interesting endeavor.</p>

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<p>I’ll tell you what my kid did to skip a year of a high school course and go straight into AP-- she took an old AP test administered by the AP teacher who then graded it. The teacher estimated that dd’s test would earn a 4 (before taking the class). They then let her take the class. </p>

<p>I thought the whole thing was silly. I had met with the head of the dept and guidance and shown them her outside work in the subject and they suggested she take a practice AP test. </p>

<p>I thought if she could get a 4 before sitting in on the class, surely even that class was too easy, but, anyway, that’s what it took. Oh, and the school made her keep it quiet about it because apparently, a lot of kids wanted to do it but were denied. My kid was better at the subject than they were but the other parents had actually been actively lobbying to get their kids the same opportunity. (So don’t blab to too many people because part of the issue may be that the school doesn’t want to open the floodgates and set a precedent.)</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies!
Ray192-for me anything is better then my cp classes which are a snore, and being in AP US history opens AP gov here at my school, which is supposed to be incredibly hard, so im considering that class too while trying to move up next year.
2collegewego-Thats what I’m essentially trying to do. I can’t take the AP test, but I’m also trying to make arrangements to do the next DBQ with the class to prove I can handle the class. But how else did you convince the department head?</p>

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<p>APUSH is often a junior year AP class, taught together with AP-Literature.
Your best advocate should be the teacher and the guidance counselor. Ask them, especially the teacher to urge that you be allowed to take APUSH. In other words, do more than just endorse your petition.</p>

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<p>APUSH was the hardest class in my D’s High school, the most time consuming also. The second hardest was AP-literature. She took APUSH to get credit at college, which has accopmlished. She has never had anything but A’s including college (college senior). Thanks goodness she did not have to take history in college and only 1 semester of English (was very easy compared to AP).</p>

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<p>I believe you can take AP courses on line. It can be pricey, but for students who have the money, want the challenge and can’t take the course at their schools, this is an option to check out. The question for your guidence counselor/teacher would be what does a 3, 4 or 5 on the AP exam means for subsequent enrollment in history courses in your high school. You wouldn’t want to retake the AP class the following year, once you were eligible to enroll.</p>

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<p>^3 in almost all AP’s means that the time/money was wasted. Even with 4, you most likely will need one more semester. Not all schools will allow AP on-line. Check before taking, they might not include it.</p>

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<p>IMHO, schools should let students self-select about AP courses. My kids’ HS got rid of the requirement that students have to qualify to take an AP course. They discovered that even those students who, in the past, would not have been allowed to take AP courses did very well in them.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Little Mother,
Your kids’ HS might have unlimited number of spots in AP classes. Not every school is in the same position and would like to give opportunity to kids who are the most prepared and most likely not to waste this precious resource and get college credit for subject, which is the only goal of AP class. Material of AP class could be taught at any level, if teacher desires to do so. In fact, my D’s school had very few AP classes, but her regular classes had prepared her very well. as she noticed at college. For example, her regular Chemistry class prepared her much better than others’ AP Chem. which was also noticed by Chem prof. who offerred her a position of Supplemental Instructor.</p>

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<p>I totally disagree with this statement. The majority of students at top schools who come in with enough AP credits to be eligible for Advanced Standing do not in fact avail themselves of this opportunity. And if they do not, the AP scores are useful only for placement, not credit.
Their reason for taking APs had little to do with receiving college credit, and everything to do with wanting to challenge themselves intellectually.
This is the OP’s reason, and it is an admirable one. It was the reason why my S started studying AP-Calc BC as a 7th grader: he did not avail himself of Advanced Standing, nor did any of his roommates, most of whom could have used their AP credits to graduate in 3 years.</p>

<p>The beauty of the American educational system is that it does not track students at age 11 or 14, but allows them to move among different courses at different levels of difficulty. While I would agree about AP classes being open to students who are well prepared to perform at the appropriate level, I see a downside of prerequisites: tracking out students who could do very well but have not jumped through the hoops of taking Honors classes. A solution would be to administer a test for those students who did not take the prerequisite Honors classes. The test would cover materials that students in the Honors track took.</p>

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<p>^Well, it worked well for my D both ways. She was able not to take college history and most likely torture herself thru and potentially lower her college GPA (the most difficult class for her and the least that she is interested, worked extremely hard to get “A” and “5” in AP US Hist.). She also limited herself to only 1 semester of college English. Honors English in college was way too easy and waste of time for her. she called it “joke”, but had to take it because of college reguirement and because of “4” in AP exam (she is very strong writer with writing awards in HS). </p>

<p>On the other hand, although she got full credit for AP Bio in college, she had to start with very first Bio. Skipping first Bio semester was not allowed for pre-meds (thank goodness). D. said that without foundation from first semester of Bio, she would not be successful. </p>

<p>However, after all said and done and being college senior next year, she will be able to graduate on time (in 4 years) with very challenging major and 2 minors and very light schdule in her college senior year and without taking single summer class. AP were definately worth it but only from standpoint of getting college credits, nothing else.</p>

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<p>Would she have been happy taking CP classes instead of the more challenging AP classes if it were not for the credits? I know my kid would have caused a riot! In fact, he did disrupt classes in 6th grade because he was bored out of his skull. Taking Precalc and AP-Calc in 7th grade fixed that problem for both him, the teachers, and the class as a whole.
In many schools, the gulf between CP and Honors or AP classes is enormous, the type of students who take these classes differs widely not only in terms of ability but also attitude toward learning and discipline. And that’s not taking into account that, often, the best teachers are assigned to AP classes.</p>

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<p>^D’s school did not allow to take classes outside of school. Her AP Hist was more than challenging for her and AP English was also very challenging. Actually all her AP classes were challenging. But D. would not create any trouble even if she was bored. It is up to boy’s to do so. I was lucky to have both. But then, S. learned to doodle when he was bored and ended up being very good artist and Graphic Designer. One always can transform boredom and anger and all negative type of energy into positive one. Girls just do what needs to be done, boys do what they want to do, just have to live with both while accepting them in positive way.</p>

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<p>I don’t have daughters, but I know that I would not have gotten where I am today if I had just been a girl who “just did what needs to be done.” I always wanted more out of my education than “just doing what needs to be done.”</p>

<p>While my S is pretty good at doodling, I see no reason why a kid who loved math from the time he could talk would have to become a graphic designer out of sheer boredom instead of a mathematician. I don’t see any benefit to anyone to ask a kid to sit through four years of math which he has already covered on his own for the sake of not making waves.</p>

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Great. And this is the chief reason why students should take AP classes. Not college credit but the love of learning for its own sake. And this, I gather, is the chief reason why the OP wants to take APUSH. I say to her, go for it.</p>

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<p>xclass2012x, why did not you move up to honor class this year? It is hard to have school break prerequisite because they can face a roomful of upset parents/students. It is not about not believe in you but protect themselves and system.</p>

<p>One dad suggested taking old Ap exam, that might help. Otherwise, be prepared to explain why you did not want to move up before now you want to break the policy and skip one level to challenge yourself.</p>

<p>Agree taking AP is not for college credits, but for intellectual challenge and show colleges you are ready.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the responses! Today I saw the department head and had a nice quick talk with her about my prospects. I told her I was taking a test today after school ( i feel pretty confident about that test! Hopefully I didn’t bomb it, or I’m screwed :((( ), and then she mentioned I was missing a lot of chapter outlines from the American Pageant. I then said I was willing to do the work over the summer, and she gave me a rather shocked look. She is going to meet with my current history teacher and see how he feels on the idea.<br>
Min Cheng, I wanted to move up this year, but I couldn’t convince my mom, so I’m doing this on my own now. I’m not actually taking AP for college credits, its for the reasons you stated. I love history, and I want to be challenged and enjoy the course</p>

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<p>If you can’t convince the powers that be to let you take APUSH next year, is it possible for you to take a history class at your local community college while still in high school (for credit or not)?</p>

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<p>Its possible, the community college around here is one of the top in the country, so it wouldn’t be a bad choice either…</p>