A painful incident

<p>PS - many congratulations and thanks to Marite for her usual thoughtful, wise, and kind posts. Can we revisit her nomination for "highest EQ?"</p>

<p>There actually are leadership workshops in many communities for team captains or team representatives. The various team reps from around the city at all the high schools attend these leadership camps on topics such as sportsmanship, responsible behavior, representing your school in your sport etc. The students go back to their teams and run groups and team building exercises. They roleplay various situations, that can come up or have in the past ie alcohol at parties where the team is present etc. My D as team captain got to participate and found it a great experience. She enjoyed the opportunities to meet team reps from different schools and various sports . Have your S check with his coach about it. I'm sure most schools have some similar type programs.</p>

<p>Do schools outside of top 15 really care about minor suspensions and mistakes by kids due to their ignorance or carelessness?</p>

<p>Reading my posts the morning after makes a huge difference.</p>

<p>I still am convinced that a suspension will never help you, but only hurt you. As well, my story is true, I just scombined my friends SAT with writing (he took the writing test too.)The gist of my message is still correct. However I must apologize for two things.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>"It appears that I have incurred the wrath of a few mothers whose children cannot research potential colleges on their own; hence, their mothers have to go to this board." This comment was, and is, COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. I deeply regret having made it. I think part of this stems from the fact that my parents expect me to do everything on my own, pay for college, research it, etc. It still gets me a little mad when I see kids who have everything to start with from their parents but don't take full advantage of every opportunity they've been given. However, this comment I made was just stupid and, you're right, disrespectful. </p></li>
<li><p>Different families have different standards. My family is very strict. If I did something like Burlmom's son did, I would be severely grounded. I also think that, coming from a military background and going to boot camp, SEAL trainings, etc., my standards of conduct are very high. As a leader at boot camp, I expect perfection. Nothing less. I should have realized that the military standards are definitely not for everyone and made a blanket generalization of kid. What he did was still, in my book, dumb, but there was no reason for me to take out my feelings on him.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In conclusion, I am truly sorry, it's amazing what a good night of sleep can do. However, I still believe that a suspension at school is going to hurt, not help.</p>

<p>Bill_Smear -
"I think part of this stems from the fact that my parents expect me to do everything on my own, pay for college, research it, etc. "</p>

<p>I will go back latter today and stare at you stats for merit scholarship ops - if you don't mind a suggestion or two from someone else's nosy mother. One thing that I know is a consideration for homeschool kids is the SAT II's - you will have a year of prep school for 'official' grades, but I wonder if having a couple more than just the required 2 or 3 might be advisable. I don't know for sure - just a thought. </p>

<p>You might see if you can look up Tlaktan - he did a lot of JROTC in HS, and has been admitted to Georgetown for this fall.</p>

<p>Bill:</p>

<p>It is very mature and gracious of you to reconsider the tone of your posts and offer an apology. Kudoes to you. </p>

<p>You are right that a suspension can hurt. We just don't know where and how much. My hunch is not a lot; I could be wrong, but, of course, I hope not. </p>

<p>I also want to offer an anecdote about Emory. Years ago, an Asian-American student from MA with perfect SATs, high GPA, etc... applied to a number of top colleges. She got into Swarthmore, Brown, and a few others I don't remember, but got rejected outright by Emory. Our GC was incredulous. Your friend got waitlisted. She did not even make the wait-list; and she had an unblemished record. It is not just admission at HYPSMAWS which is a crapshoot. </p>

<p>If you are homeschooled, Ohio-mom's advice is spot on. The more conventional yardsticks you have to offer the better.</p>

<p>Bill:
Thanks for offering an apology. It is very easy online to be arrogant and rude and to forget that the posters and readers are interesting and worthy multidimensional people. Many of us have posted remarks on the internet that we might not have said in a social setting, so good for you for regrets. The rude portion of your posts indicated a lack of finesse in participating with skill in the "marketplace of ideas" that is so much a part of college life and also the setting for the world of work. Even in the military things are not black and white or any way near perfect, clear and harmonious (spoken as a daughter of a career officer who personally shined a lot of shoes over 20 years). And as you have said today, you have now made a connection between your impatience and your own personal history with insight. EQ and IQ need to converge if you want to influence others or be effective. Insight comes with time and years and is a lifetime task for all of us.
This is a parents' post site and an outlet for parents who are learning, or who enjoy advising young people or each other. Some of us are just now looking ahead to college selection and application season for our children, some of us are moving out soon enough to new chapters in life. Every phase of life has its challenges and I hope you enjoy gleaning various perspectives and nuggets from these boards while its subject matter is relevant to you. good luck in pursuit of your path</p>

<p>On the question of answering questions on college applications -- the applications my D filled out asked if she had ever been convicted, and since her conviction by that time had been expunged from her record she was able to answer no. That, I believe, is the purpose of such court provisions -- to avoid having a youthful moment of terrible judgment/impulsivity ruin one's life.</p>

<p>I haven't read all the messages on this thread, but thought you'd like to know of our experience. My son did something incredibly stupid at the end of 9th grade. He was arrested, suspended for the rest of the year and spent all of 10th grade -- we're talking 6 days per week -- doing something related to the court and a special program he had to complete.</p>

<p>Anyway, he completely disclosed this incident on his application to the colleges that asked about it. The guidance counselor and principal mentioned it in their recommendations, but mostly talked about all the wonderful things he'd done.</p>

<p>He was accepted EA to an Ivy and got a lot of merit scholarships to other schools.</p>

<p>This may be useful - College Confidential interviewed various admissions officers about this topic - they all state the importance of disclosure.
<a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/experts/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/experts/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Interestingly, at least one of them also says that they expect disclosure on the college application even when a conviction has been expunged or sealed: <a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/experts/suspension-msu.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/experts/suspension-msu.htm&lt;/a> </p>

<p>I've been trying to track down a definitive answer on the Internet, and it appears that "expungement" varies from state to state. In some states, like California, expungement will be reported by the state for certain types of jobs and licensures (nursing, teaching, jobs with the state). In other states, it is less clear. Meanwhile, the state of NJ has less restrictive requirements about when an expungement needs to be revealed and when they will allow access to the records. Even so, they make it clear that the records of the expungement are still kept, although not revealed by the state except under certain circumstances. Other states have time limits (usually 5 years) after which the expungement is deemed gone from the records permanently. How this affects the need to disclose expungements and sealed records in a different state is not clear to me. Maybe one of our resident attorneys could answer this?</p>

<p>Similarly, some law school, teacher education, nursing, medical school and pharmacy programs specifically ask "have you been convicted of a crime that has been expunged?" while others do not.</p>

<p>I suppose, the best thing is to ask each school - perhaps anonymously through email - if they want to know about expungements and minor suspensions from school. That way, there will be no surprises.</p>

<p>Many times minors are not convicted of a crime, they can be arrested and charges dropped with community service or counseling but they are not usually convicted for a minor first offense. If a student is arrested and charges are dropped it is quite different from an expunged record but these are all good questions for a lawyer for sure.</p>

<p>Definitely Arizonamom. It is troublesome how much conflicting information there is on this out there. It also seems like some schools want to know and others don't. The wording of the question on many applications also leads to some questions.</p>