<p>marite, what does that coda have to do with anything? You still can't make a distinction between MIT students and high school students who do foolish things.</p>
<p>The coda relates to an earlier post of mine about Gina Grant.
You should note that the MIT pranks are not sanctioned. That they happen at all is because the school turns a blind eye. The prank they pulled at a Yale-Harvard game was very funny--but not to the players; they could have been prosecuted.
But more to the point, I don't believe that goody-two shoes suddenly turn into pranksters only when they get into MIT.
I also note that you are a rising high school senior. Never got into any trouble? Good for you.</p>
<p>bill_smear -
"Do not even attempt to draw a parallel between the nation's brightest minds (students who do need some free time once in a while between hours of studying) and Burlmom's son (who probably had too much free time on his hands and decided to impress his friends by shimmying through the school's roof.)"</p>
<p>From what I've seen, brilliancy insures neither wisdom nor good sense - at least from a hs sophomore. </p>
<p>Actually, most of the MIT and Caltech grads I know are a little on the fiesty side - I've seen at least one rap sheet from the Caltech police, proudly displayed in a professor's office.</p>
<p>bill_smear:
[quote]
But the fact that the Ivies, Rice, and Georgetown did not even consider him
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How do you know they didn't consider him?</p>
<p>Hi everyone, to the OP, youre son might not actually have to report an in-school suspension. I graduated high school just recently, and at least in my school, in school suspension was considered more of a glorified detention. An actual suspension was reserved for offenses deemed to be more serious. When I was a high school freshmen I ended up with an in-school-suspension (undeserved I might add!). Last year when it came time to apply to colleges I never even thought about checking the suspension box on applications. When letters came back in the spring, I was accepted to most places I expected to be. I can only assume that colleges were not concerned with the in-school-suspension.</p>
<p>It appears that I have incurred the wrath of a few mothers whose children cannot research potential colleges on their own; hence, their mothers have to go to this board. </p>
<p>marite: I have gotten into trouble a few times in my life, with my parents and my elders. However, a school suspension is entirely different. Schools do not throw suspensions around for no reason; otherwise, an entire school could technically be suspended because I'm sure every student has, at one time, created trouble. I hope that you, as you seem to be a reasonable person, know this. All I'm saying is that a school suspension is a red flag. It's not impossible to overcome, but it is a definite obstacle to the most prestigious institutions. Yes I have gotten into trouble, but I also don't have a juvenile delinquent record like the child who climbed into his school. </p>
<p>Conclusion: There is absolutely nothing wrong with a prankster; there is something wrong if the child was suspended from school, and forced to go through a juvenile delinquency program. MIT will get pranksters, but I will tell you this: there is no one at MIT who went through juvenile delinquency. </p>
<p>Yes, I don't have the "stats" to prove the above statement (BUT BILL_SMEAR HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT!?!? I'VE GONE THROUGH MY PRINCETON REVIEW STATS AND I CAN'T FIND THAT ON PAPER!!!), but people, please use your common sense and you should come to that conclusion yourself. </p>
<p>My friend made the mistake of applying to all elite schools, thinking that his stats would overcome his suspension in school. They did not. The suspension of Burlmom's son will only hurt if he plans to apply to elite schools. Many schools will take students who have been suspended. (Heck, my friend got off the wait-list at Emory, a darn good school.)</p>
<p>Sorry, Bill Smear, I AM using my common sense (thank you very much) and my rather longer experience to comment on Burlmom's son's chances.
And I take offence at your characterization of the posters here as "mothers whose children cannot research colleges on their own." My two kids have done very well in the college admission process, thank you very much again. They knew exactly where they wanted to apply to and have gotten in.
This is the Parents Forum. That is why Burlmom posted here.</p>
<p>It might not look good to have a suspension or expulsion on your record for college
But the Marines won't care ;)</p>
<p>THis is information from a college advisor from MIddlebury who is on this site- worth a read</p>
<p>*In the end, each part of your college application is an opportunity to present yourself in the best and most complete way possible. Despite the fact that informing a college of a disciplinary action highlights an error in judgment, it is the way you handle the topic that most matters. None of us is perfect and there are real people sitting on the admissions committee who know well that foibles and failings are as much part of learning as exams and GPAs. Dont underestimate the committees ability to separate you from the event leading to your disciplinary action. More importantly dont sell yourself short; it is an adult skill to assume responsibility for ones actions and to account honestly for lapses in judgment. We ask you to answer our application question because we expect the best from you. So, too, should you expect the best of yourself. *</p>
<p>I hope the parents won't take Bill Smear's anecdote as proof of anything. I have much more solid information that could refute everything he said. I suspect his well-qualified friend had poor references because he continued to be a jerk through high school. There are so many kids at the elite colleges who have tested limits. It is not very hard to be suspended from high schools. In fact, I know a kid who got into a minor fight at his boarding school and got a 1 day suspension. It was more of a wrestling match, but fighting was a violation of the school code. Do you honestly think this kid was limited to his state university because of this? Think again- he's at Princeton.<br>
Your credibility is nil, Smear.</p>
<p>Bill Smear, it is unkind to "smear mothers". Parents go to this board because they care deeply about their children's education and future. They are not here because their children cannot research colleges, and it is unkind to smear them too. There is no need to be rude and insulting when you disagree.</p>
<p>Amazing!, "I have a very good friend, went to a private school, 2300 SAT, straight A student, many ECs, etc." Since SAT's with top scores higher then 1600 were not offered until March of this year Bill Smear's friend was somehow able to apply to colleges last fall but not take the SAT's until this March? Now that's tricky!</p>
<p>There are many students with perfect GPA's, perfect SAT's and wonderful EC's without any discipline issues who might not get accepted to HYP.</p>
<p>I was also thinking that a student who just got into college would not have taken the new SAT. </p>
<p>Your story is suspect-bill smear!</p>
<p>bill_smear wrote:</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have gotten into trouble a few times in my life, with my parents and my elders. However, a school suspension is entirely different. Schools do not throw suspensions around for no reason; otherwise, an entire school could technically be suspended because I'm sure every student has, at one time, created trouble.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's interesting that bill_smear appears so certain about school disciplinary policies, given that he has indicated in an earlier posting that he has been homeschooled up to now. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=79040%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=79040</a></p>
<p>(Ironic note: yes, there ARE homeschooling parents who actually threaten to effectively suspend their children from homeschooling. I've heard of parents who say to their kids, "If you don't [stop the bickering with your siblings, do your chores, do something more constructive with your time, whatever....], I'm sending you back to school!" )</p>
<p>Given bill_smear's admission that he has "gotten into trouble a few times" with his parents and his elders, one wonders if they've ever been tempted to "suspend" him from homeschooling!</p>
<p>Since bill_smear has indicated he'll be attending a prep school next year, he should note that speaking to school adults as rudely and disrespectfully as he has spoken to parents on this forum might well get him suspended from prep school! (Even the poor and financially struggling parochial schools I attended would certainly never have tolerated such rudeness from students, back in my day.)</p>
<p>It doesn't always take a lot to get suspended from private prep schools. Those schools work as well as they do because the administration expects all students to conduct themselves in a respectful and deferential manner. Students with an "attitude" are disruptive to the climate and good order of the learning environment.</p>
<p>Even if such a disrespectful manner of speaking with others doesn't get you suspended, it will not endear you to the guidance counselor who will need to write a letter of recommendation.</p>
<p>Let's look at the other side and say something positive about bill_smear. Here is a serious (based on his posts) young man, who is doing his best to establish academic credibility, has no blots on his record except a couple of B's. He will be in the same academic pool as kids with suspensions and so on. I think there is an issue of fairness - if I were in his shoes, I would likely think it was not fair that kids with transgressions got a second chance. The thing is, we can't do much about the fairness of the situation. All we can do is dig up information, and try to go pass it along so that kids - and their parents - are not going into the admissions process with blinders on. In this case, the information is that while a suspension may hurt at some schools, it simply isn't the kiss of death everywhere. Hard as it is to believe, adcoms were young, once. And of all the ones I have encountered trapsing around soggy New England campuses, not a one had a halo or wings.</p>
<p>
[quote]
n this case, the information is that while a suspension may hurt at some schools, it simply isn't the kiss of death everywhere.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nice summary. My point is that it is impossible to say WHERE a suspension or detention might hurt. One would surmise that if the application form does not ask about such issues, the college does not care. But if it does, it does not necessarily mean that the door is closed. The excerpt from the Middlebury website quote by EK is very helpful. There is no way to know whether HYPSM would look less kindly on a suspension than, say, a tier 2 school.</p>
<p>In-school suspensions are considered actual suspensions in my urban school district. Check with your son's GC when school begins.</p>
<p>Many of the apps I've seen don't even ASK for this info (the common app doesn't and many of the supplements don't). So I'd just chalk it up to bad judgement and move on.</p>
<p>The only reason to write about this incident is if the app asks. </p>
<p>And there is a bonus. I guarantee your S has learned his lesson. Big time.</p>
<p>I agree, marite. No need to pile it on. I hope my counter point made that clear. It sounds like burlson has learned his lesson.</p>
<p>Here are my 'roof' stories. We grew up next to a well-known private university My pre-teen brother was routinely detained by campus police for climbing up to the six storey high law school roof.</p>
<p>The second storey is about my S2. When he was a darling two year old, we moved from Manhattan to a nice midwesterm city. The midwestern neighbors stopped in to introduce themselves. In a neighborhood of 50/50 working moms, I was as mad as a blow fly in a milk bottle in those first few weeks--setting up house, setting up the business. </p>
<p>A few weeks after the move, a stay at home mom came to the door to say hello. She lived across the street. After a few seconds of polite introductions, she said, "I saw your son on the roof."</p>
<p>Turned out that five year old S1 and his new best friend devised a new game while mommy was at work and the nanny was pre-occupied. S1 and friends rolled matchbox cars out the second floor window, down the sloped roof of the first floor porch, out to the gutter at the edge of the roof.</p>
<p>Out of cars, they then sent 2 year old S2 out to the gutter to retrieve the toys. </p>
<p>The neighbor had indeed seen my two year old toddler, in diapers, climbing up and down the roof retrieving cars out of the gutter.</p>
<p>No doubt that incident confirmed my neighbor's worst fears about working mums.</p>
<p>**Note to Mr Smear: Some CC parents are in a position to be veritable authorities on Ivy admissions. You have a few anecdotes to compare. Consider this and then, perchance, read and learn from more knowledgeable sources.</p>
<p>I have to admit I can't read the title of this thread without wincing
( Especially since a recent incident involving a death- and a stallion on a Washington farm) You really don't want to know.</p>
<p>actually my quote Re suspensions was taken from this site</p>
<p><a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/experts/%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeconfidential.com/experts/</a></p>
<p>Cheers, We're parents, not gods. When my S was in first grade, his best friend started in Hebrew school. After each class, he would share his newfound knowledge with S. One day, S came home and said: J. learned in Hebrew class that God is omniscient. J and I figure that in order to know everything, God has to be everywhere and so he has to travel all the time and really fast. Our question is: "Does God wear a seat belt?"
Well, we can't be everywhere at the same time, even if those of us who stay at home; but we definitely need to wear seatbelt for the wild ride that is parenting!</p>
<p>Musings....</p>
<p>I fully agree with Marite re: MIT. A lot of those pranks are much worse than what Burlmom's Son did. They've stolen cows, telephone booths, cars, you name it. I do not believe that an MIT acceptance gives them the right to do this - none of this "they earned their acceptance" stuff for me. They could be prosecuted for much of their conduct, but Cambridge & the administration are willing to see annual piano drops (and resuling pavement damage) as fun. </p>
<p>I do not see the incident as particularly bad. Cross-country practice (at least at my school) was always right after school. If these kids went through the roof of the school at the end of practice, then it was what, 5 pm? Might have been reasonable to think that they would not be setting off alarms - they might have thought they could run into a teacher. I'm not excusing it, but I think that is different from the kids who break a window and run around the school at midnight on a Friday night. </p>
<p>Finally, re: disclosure. My advice is to not make it into an essay; it will be an old incident by senior year, and you don't want to profit from it.</p>
<p>Law schools have very specific disclosure requirements, and, as the attorneys can tell you, the bar does as well. I've gotten a security clearance, which was also a very detailed background check. Instructions are very explicit: if there is any ambiguity, you are to disclose. Futhermore, they are all very explicit that the lack of disclosure is more damaging than the actual problem. So, disclose. </p>
<p>Finally... is your S interested in any type of community service? If he is going to be a rising junior (right?) would he want to talk to freshman about this? Our school had a health-type class (alcohol, drugs, sex - how to make healthy choices) - if your S's school has one, would he be willing to open up about the experience to younger kids? I'm really getting the impression that he feels remorse over this, and it might make him feel better if he is doing something positive for the community. Psychologically, when punishment is coupled with some sort of positive restitution, the person who "wronged" the community usually feels more integrated with it. Maybe talking to a health class or helping to write up a flyer/newsletter for incoming high schoolers (or cross-country runners or athletes or whatever) would make him feel like something positive can come out of this.</p>