<p>Agree with ClassicRockerDad, in this circumstance, Purdue or GA Tech would be the way to go. Michigan seems affordable if you and your son are comfortable with the $5K/$5K/$5K plan suggested earlier in the thread. At most schools, engineering majors are among the most tightly constrained in terms of schedules–i.e., pre-reqs need to be taken in specific orders, and there is very little room in the curriculum for electives. In addition, the total number of credits required for the degree may be higher than for a liberal arts degree. So the 2 year-transfer-2 year plan could easily wind up being 2 year-transfer-3 year, and then the cost is higher. The course names at other colleges could be the same, but the content and challenge level might not be the same (hard to know without knowing the specific Tier 4 school in question). The amount you’ve saved is high enough (and admirable) that I don’t think finances should affect the decision, assuming that the $130,000 is specifically for S1. If he decides to go to grad school in engineering, that will be free–tuition paid plus teaching or research assistant stipend for cost of living.</p>
<p>EasternDad,</p>
<p>Could you please clarify whether or not you have $130K already saved for this son’s education? If you do, I continue to concur with ClassicRockerDad that Purdue and Georgia Tech, at least, are quite doable. (Even UMich with a bit of effort, but the other options are great.)</p>
<p>I’m not someone who pushes undergraduate debt, believe me. Both of my kids made choices with debt avoidance in mind. In this case, though, the maximum loan obligation would be very small for an engineering student (assuming the 130K number is correct), and the reputation and placement services of Purdue and GA Tech make it worth it.</p>
<p>Speaking as a former faculty member, and the spouse of a long-time prof., I am not a fan of starting one school with the intention of transferring to another. Very often credits are lost and an extra year of school is required to graduate. At the least, a couple of summer sessions become necessary, and that kills summer earnings potential. At least as significant, in my opinion, is that a student who is not planning to stay around does not invest much effort at establishing valuable ties with the original school–clubs, organizations, getting to know professors, forming study groups and various other ways students become part of their new environment.</p>
<p>The community college issue: the quality of community colleges varies widely in different states. I don’t think there is any question that in the state I live in, the cc does not prepare students properly for transfer to even a mid-range flagship public university. Engineering even worse than other fields. Heck, my niece found that her cc credits as an elementary education major were not sufficient to keep her on track at a regional (not flagship) public–and this is with an articulation agreement!–so she has to do an additional year. Beware of that option.</p>
<p>Purdue and Georgia Tech will afford him a better training, place him within a peer group that will stimulate him, and open career opportunities for him. Based on the information you provided, your expense gap totals about 15k (assuming tuition and fees will rise over next 4 years). If your son is willing to assume responsibility for that gap through jobs and loans, it is completely unclear why you would stand in the way of his bright future and make him trudge a more difficult path.</p>
<p>A lot of work in engineering majors is done in groups. Having intellectual peers matters a lot more than you might think.</p>
<p>I agree that it is not wise to take on a huge debt for an undergrad degree, but that is not the case for you. Making your son start out in an inferior school and then transfer creates unnecessary hardship that may well jeopardize his success in his studies, his job opportunities, and his abilities to repay those loans by himself.</p>
<p>And there is absolutely no guarantee that he will be able to transfer into any specific program, even if he maintains a high GPA through his first 2 years, which can be extremely difficult in engineering.</p>
<p>
And taking classes in the summers eats up time when he could/should be working at an internship which is very important for engineers. They also add to the cost and take away from any income he’d have from the internship (most engineering internships are paid).</p>
<p>Thank you for all the advice. But the 130K I have is 1/4th given by the bank as loans and with 2 more kids to go for college I cannot ask S or myself to take loans from the bank in such an economy. </p>
<p>He is Heading to St. Cloud State University (which is actually Tier 3) and I don’t know whether I will be taking the right decision. S is just 17 now (he went to school early and I cannot put him under the pressure of earning as well as studying for engineering). </p>
<p>We visited the university and He has made it to the Honors program and He will be allowed to work as well as study as a few companies are situated near by. </p>
<p>I know this question is a bit repetitive, But S is in need of some premature advice of what he must be doing in case he wants to transfer after the 2nd year. - Which Universities should he be aiming towards ?</p>
<p>I still haven’t completely ruled out the possibility of him attending a better ranked school (and he has applied to UAH) but I feel it is for the best that he goes to St. Cloud State University. </p>
<p>Thank you all once again.</p>
<p>I’m so confused. Are you Minnesota residents? If he was willing to apply to St. Cloud, why didn’t he apply to the University of Minnesota Twin Cities? That is also a top engineering school, and only a few thousand more? He also could have gotten instate tuition at the University of Wisconsin at Madison? </p>
<p>Or are you out of state for Minnesota schools. Either way, University of Minnesota is less than 25K even OOS. I’m also not sure if it’s even too late to apply to University of Minnesota. It says they are rolling admissions.</p>
<p>I’ll try to confuse things further. It is an easy transfer from the U of MN-Duluth to the U of MN Twin Cities. A student just has to fill out a change of campus form. The transfer from St Cloud state to UMNTC will not be as straight forward. I know you were not putting UMNTC into the mix for transfers, but it is tons better than St Cloud. Had you looked at Duluth? It is cold but beautiful up there.</p>
<p>Even with the Honors program he is going to be underwhelmed by his floormates, dining hall conversations, etc. I’ve known some people who have gone there and I have recommended it to relatives. The students are generally nice but not academic superstars.</p>
<p>We are actually Europeans and it has been less than a year since we relocated to Minnesota. So basically we do not have the residency status yet. </p>
<p>Is it still possible for him to apply to UMNTC ?</p>
<p>[Admission</a> Info - Application Materials](<a href=“http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/admissioninfo/fresh_checklist.html]Admission”>http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/admissioninfo/fresh_checklist.html)
It seems like he could still apply. Even if you are not in-state (for tuition) this year, you will be next year.
I think it will not be to your son’s advantage to go to St Cloud state</p>
<p>I don’t know. I think a phone call could sort this out quickly. I know some one who missed the Dec priority deadline and was accepted in April or May, so it definitely may be possible. The application is not difficult. You should also ask about their Honors program. I think a student can enter it after freshman year too.</p>
<p>I found a link to the explanations of who gets instate tuition rates.
[Powered</a> by Google Docs](<a href=“http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:vhMFySgfK3QJ:admissions.tc.umn.edu/PDFs/ResidencyReciprocity.pdf+university+of+minnesota+residency+definition&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShvkyiBj185LO3BI4rm2wjynmol2DgPJbv8oLDQrO-hbVJxqqWiM1Im9oHAofPHjyBHpU4N3oh_a9dyShgkRzeI-TMpHf9tXx_RrCoIabggUmyC6_htSbUtQAH1KZbmX-IyuXKQ&sig=AHIEtbR_ppQCghC97xbiod5VwghEjHvJvA]Powered”>http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:vhMFySgfK3QJ:admissions.tc.umn.edu/PDFs/ResidencyReciprocity.pdf+university+of+minnesota+residency+definition&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShvkyiBj185LO3BI4rm2wjynmol2DgPJbv8oLDQrO-hbVJxqqWiM1Im9oHAofPHjyBHpU4N3oh_a9dyShgkRzeI-TMpHf9tXx_RrCoIabggUmyC6_htSbUtQAH1KZbmX-IyuXKQ&sig=AHIEtbR_ppQCghC97xbiod5VwghEjHvJvA)</p>
<p>Look at page one. It even discusses what kind of visas a family might be holding.</p>
<p>Non resident rates are not terribly high either. You’d be looking at roughly $26,000 including room and board.</p>
<p>Ok, simple solution. If he cannot go to University of Minnesota Twin Cities, why not accept the offer to Purdue. If the financial situation doesn’t improve in two years, he can transfer to University of Minnesota-Twin Cities or University of Wisconsin-Madison when you qualify for instate tuition. If it does improve, he stays. The other two sons can be grateful to dad that he chose to settle in Minnesota. This way he NEVER has to settle for a lower tier school.</p>
<p>EasternDad,</p>
<p>I apologize if I have read too much into a couple of your comments, but is it possible that a major reason for your choice is the desire to keep your son close for another year or two?</p>
<p>If you have just relocated from another country and your son is relatively young on top of that, I can understand your reluctance to have him start off at a distant college. Have you considered having him do something else for one year while he matures a bit and you and he become more comfortable with your new situation? It is generally possible to defer attendance for a year, and I would be surprised if Purdue, GA Tech and Michigan objected. I’m not suggesting taking college courses during the deferral year, because that would make him a transfer student rather than a freshman. </p>
<p>I also like ClassicRockerDad’s suggestion in post 53–assuming going away to college is not the crucial sticking point.</p>
<p>This thread is frustrating–your choice is mystifying! There is such a wide gap between the quality of choices he sems to have available. Why is that? And you were so confusing about what money is available for him or not? Why don’t you jump on that application to Alabama?</p>
<p>If he is looking for potential transfer options, have you even looked into which schools will actually accept transfers into the engineering school after the 2nd year? That can be an impacted major and it may not be possible. It seems you have no idea if this is viable in practice or not. I hate to hear your son is going into a much lower level program that his abilities indicate he is qualified for. And at this point your preparedness and level of knowledge of the impact of this is not on par with many parents here, it doesn’t seem to me. </p>
<p>Instead of rushing into a tier 3 school, perhaps he can take a gap year and apply again next year with better choices, perhaps residency status and opportunities for merit scholarships, so the financial impact won’t be so difficult to swallow, yet he doesn’t get lost in a lesser program. He can intern, earn money or do something useful in that year.</p>
<p>Here are grad school rankings in Engineering. They aren’t always completely correlated with undergrad, but usually that is an indication of a strong school.
[Rankings</a> - Best Engineering Schools - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/rankings]Rankings”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/rankings)</p>
<p>Incidently, my daughter is a grad school in CS at UW-Madison and says it is a fantastic place to live and study.</p>
<p>“St Cloud State”- presume that is in Minnesota. If so he will be able to transfer to U of Minn-Twin Cities or UW-Madison after freshman year with instate tuition and excellent academics presuming he does well his freshman year. Not all college courses are created equally. A computer science or calculus course can cover much more material in a top school compared to a lesser school for the same number of credits. Do not ruin your intelligent son’s future by settling for cheap schools- meaning low cost and low academics. By now it is too late for him to get into your state flagship school but he can transfer for the 2011 school year. It is also not a good idea to insist he apply to unknown OOS schools at this time just to save money.</p>
<p>I definitely don’t recommend delaying his education. Since he’s probably going to make ~$50K when he graduates, delaying his education pretty much costs $50K guaranteed. </p>
<p>Seriously, start at Purdue, it’s not THAT far away or THAT much more expensive. Then transfer to a school with in state tuition (Minn, Wisc). This provides an outstanding education, one that is much better than any of the alternatives.</p>
<p>My concern with Georgia Tech is that they have very harsh grading and it may make it more difficult to transfer. Michigan is not worth the money, especially if he’s not staying. I think Purdue makes the most sense since you have an offer in hand and it’s not that much more money for just 1 or 2 years.</p>
<p>Transferring after 2 years from “St Cloud State” into a superior engineering program will be nearly impossible.</p>
<p>??? Why is 1/4 of the $130k a loan?</p>
<p>“Transferring after 2 years from “St Cloud State” into a superior engineering program will be nearly impossible”</p>
<p>While I don’t personally know if this is true or not, it is something I suspect to be true. This is what I was hoping that the original parent to this post would investigate properly. It seems to be all guesswork.</p>