I think the author went to Princeton. Not sure of the motivation, but it did have an effect
I also read the following quote by a poster here on UChicago
As a parent, I am happy that my kid is going to UChicago, but this also worries me. Should I be concerned? What are the tools the school provides to cope with stress and emerge with a UChicago degree without emotional scars?
Parents what has your experience been? Would appreciate any pointers
I commented on the CC post you quoted in that thread and won’t repeat it here, except to say I think it’s way overblown, but at any elite university students are going to go through periods of work stress and, depending on their personality, depression. I don’t know that any college does a super job of dealing with it, honestly.
A few years ago, I would have said that the “Ivy Myth” article described a particular dynamic that’s very much present at HYPS and other Ivies, but mostly absent at Chicago. The Chicago my kids attended was not a place where students beat themselves up because they weren’t living up to a standard of constant success in everything they do. Whether because most of them had NOT been accepted at Harvard, or because Chicago kicked the starch out of them immediately, or because the atmosphere was not at all competitive, or most likely some of all three, the Chicago students tended to accept that things (and they) weren’t going to be perfect all of the time. Measuring oneself against an imaginary, unattainable standard is different from getting exhausted because there’s too much work to do. My impression is that Chicago students, past and present, tend to have pretty social depression: everyone feels like they are oppressed together. They don’t (or at least didn’t) so much have the intensely isolating feeling that everyone else is succeeding and I am always falling short.
By contrast, I saw quite a bit of that among people at Harvard back in the day, and also (but less) at Yale and Stanford, and it doesn’t surprise me at all to hear about it at Princeton. Penn has been going through a nightmare of periodic student suicides, including this week, many of which seem to wind up reflecting a similar dynamic. Really, only a fairly small percentage of students have a strong reaction like that described in the article, but it doesn’t take many people feeling that way to affect the general atmosphere of a college.
I suspect that as Chicago admissions have become as ultra-competitive, or more so, as many of the Ivies, the students who enroll there more and more resemble the students at Yale, or Columbia, or Brown, say. It’s inevitable that there will be more people who display that kind of perfectionist, driven, depressive tendency. I hope not too many.
I wrote about the quote you were referring to in [another thread](Unsure about the academic & social life and U Chicago??? - #4 by HydeSnark - University of Chicago - College Confidential Forums). I don’t really think anything they said was factually incorrect, except that it is certainly possible to grow emotionally and socially here. The problem is that it’s very hard to do that when you’re miserable, can’t stand the weather, the cold, the city, the flatness, the amount of work, the pace, or your classes, which sometimes happens when people commit to here without knowing what they’re getting into. You can get a ridiculously accurate view of the school and student culture just from, say, reading College Confidential, however. If you know what you’re getting into and think, “yes, this is where I want to go,” it’s probably a great fit and you’ll be really happy.
As for that article about Princeton…well, that just isn’t applicable to UChicago. The stress here comes from students vs academics. At Princeton it comes from students vs students. At Princeton no one wants to be the one who doesn’t appear to be incredibly successful in every possible area of life, while here we make a sport out of complaining. I’m more of a fan of our approach.
And there are loads of academic support systems in place, ranging from on-demand, free tutors to TAs assigned to every section to office hours to the entire house system which gives you access to lots and lots of upperclassmen who are almost always willing to help you out. Everyone wants you to succeed and will help you succeed in your never-ending battle against the academics here, it’s just that many students wish they were succeeding somewhere else.
My D2 turned down Chicago for another equally intense school. She loves it, but this semester (2nd semester junior), I am seeing a rise in her anxiety level. The pressure seems to be getting to her – enough so that she has been to the college counseling center a couple of times. Her school sometimes suggests that students take a semester off when the pressure is causing them too much stress – she hasn’t been given this suggestion by the school that I am aware of, though (although they wouldn’t tell a parent due to FERPA), and says she doesn’t want to when I asked her.
@kaukauna, my kid loves her school, too, and was keeping it together for the first several semesters. But college is a marathon, and a kid who does okay at first may struggle later.
She took the GRE a few weeks ago and got an amazing score with almost no prep. She said, “Mom, I forgot that I really am smart. My school makes me feel stupid so much of the time.”
I send care packages at midterms & finals, remind her that I love her no matter what her grades are (text from her freshman year: “Will u still love me if I fail Special Relativity?” She didn’t fail, though), make sure I talk to her at least weekly, and exchange a few texts during the week. She signed a FERPA waiver so I can see her grades if needed and talk to her profs – would only do so in the case of a medical/mental health emergency, though. But it is good to have the option. Not sure if U of C makes this waiver easy or not, but they need to have a process if you & the student ask for it.
Don’t let your kid overload freshman year. Their advisors may let them overload or get very close to it, and smart kids with so many great classes to choose from will be tempted.
@VeryLuckyParent Many congratulated us, but one of our friends send this article to us.
Are you sure this person is a friend? Seems a very rude and slightly mean spirited thing to do. Perhaps fueled by jealousy? I could understand if you had asked for opinions or perspectives on schools you were considering, than perhaps sending along this article with a note saying food for thought may have been okay, but to send this after the commitment has been made is a tad mean spirited I think.
Hate to say it, but I think lots of kids (at least from private or highly competitive suburban or magnet schools near major US cities on both coasts) are already struggling with these issues and pressures in HS. The “prize” for managing the insanity successful is admission to a bigger, more competitive school filled with other kids who performed well under pressure. Lather, rinse, repeat, but ratchet it up a notch. Harvard’s “Happy Bottom Quarter” makes more sense to me now.
That said, thus far the most reassuring news I’ve heard re U of C has been from parents of kids from D’s HS. It’s great to get the perspective of kids who went in with the same preparation and expectations re workload. Everybody seems really happy. One changed majors (too hard), but is wildly happy and successful (multiple internships, job offers) in a related Plan B field.
D’s really been energized by the Facebook page because she’s always spotting kids with shared interests/tastes. I think the biggest risk for her is plunging too deeply into too many activities at once which, of course, is a proclivity foster by our HS/college admissions culture. And the U of C kids seem as intense outside of class as inside. But that’s life and she’ll have to figure it out. Hopefully after a decent night’s sleep, at least occasionally. Funniest thing to me about the Ivy Myth article was the author’s assumption that she would have listened had her parents told her she needed more rest to stay healthy. BTDT – it’s a hard sell and usually only works at a point where there’s no realistic alternative anyway.
The University of Chicago has ALWAYS been known to be an intense academic
Environment . In the days before the common app ,the students who applied there were pretty much self-selecting, I. E, kids who LOVED to learn above all else.
These days a lot of kids apply because it’s ranked high and they’re looking for the prestige factor. Some are just not the right candidates for the University of Chicago.
It is no cakewalk for any student there regardless of how smart they are. Your daughter will have to work hard and the cold dreary weather can be a big downer. She needs to go into Chicago with her eyes wide open. The education that she will get will be absolutely superb but she will have to work hard for it.
I think it is a real concern that parents should consider at the most intense colleges (UChicago, Swarthmore, MIT, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, etc). We don’t talk about it much here until a kid crashes, and we probably should.
Several of my sons’ friends have dropped out of “name” schools and transferred back to Maine. Really bright kids, but they just couldn’t take the pressure.
i hear you…and I don’t want to dismiss these fears. UChicago was one of the schools my D was admitted to but couldn’t attend because of our finances. But I sort of detected (though she never said this) that she was sort of happy to have the “excuse” of money…instead of having to tell her friends that she was intimidated by the academics and atmosphere.
My kid did crave intensity and the smartest students she could find. But four years is a long time to keep up the pace even for a kid who really wants it. And a kid can love a school, and still have major struggles there.