<p>The SAT is designed poorly, given its purpose. The way it is now, perfect and near perfect scores are somewhat common. </p>
<p>A perfect score in any section should be pretty darn near impossible, even for the brightest of students. Math should cover calculus and beyond, reading should cover college material etc. That way, distinctions could more easily be made between the thousands of applicants with 800s.</p>
<p>Take, for instance, a kid who gets As in his math classes, studies his ass off for the math subsection and gets an 800. Now, look at the kid who completed his high school math curriculum his sophomore year and has taken a handful of higher level math classes at a university and gets an 800. No distinction is made by collegeboard between these two test takers. </p>
<p>IMO, SAT subject tests are a joke. Somebody who answers every singe question correctly on the physics test can get the same score as somebody who missed 6 questions. That is absurd. </p>
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<p>Test takers should be tested until their breaking point; they should answer questions on a subject until their ability can't help them any more. The distribution for SAT scores should be a much narrower bell.</p>
<p>I am not just talking about 2400s. I mean 800s, which are very common. Also, about.com is a terrible source. Go to collegeboard for info on collegeboard tests. There are hundreds of 2400s every year, by the way. </p>
<p>Colleges use the SAT for admissions. If they wanted a different scale, they’d tell CB to change it. Obvisoulsy, they are happy with the status quo.</p>
<p>I am sure I will regret joining in, but Chopped Canada isn’t on yet.</p>
<p>I believe 800’s and 2400’s occur at a rate of less than 1/100, but I am not one of them, so maybe I am wrong. Even if that means “hundreds” of students, does that make it common? What level of distinction is required within the realm of college admissions ? Says who? This isn’t Mensa.</p>
<p>I don’t the think Collegeboard originally intended for folks to study for this. Back in my day that would have been pretty unusual. You’re a senior? Ha! I’M a senior! </p>
<p>The SAT is biased enough to the wealthy. If they make it cover math material beyond calculus, as you suggest, they’re just helping the wealthy kids even more.</p>
<p>I used it as it was a quick find, 1,664,479 students took the SAT last year. I bet there is a very similar amount of 2400s than in your statistic (+/- 20). Do the math and you get about 0.000180236579 or 0.02% of test takers achieving the 2400, it’s close to impossible. However, you can’t stop someone from trying to achieve a 2400, the College Board makes the test in the same fashion despite the fact that there are dozens of prep books giving very similar problems to that of the real SAT problems. Hell, the College Board made their Official SAT Study Guide because they want students to succeed. </p>
<p>The SAT has to befit to the common student, not everyone takes Calculus, and they have to make a test in which every student who wishes to go to college can take. Why would you test them on stuff they will struggle to achieve? Why not test them on what they know and check how well they have mastered it? Why should they make it impossible? The subjects tests are for those who have gone the extra mile and taken higher level classes, everyone should be free to show their strengths accordingly.</p>
<p>The SAT isn’t supposed to test Calculus and beyond because there are already tests that show ability in that area. The SAT is supposed to test basic skills because colleges want a way to analyze as many students as possible. If most of the students didn’t know the material (Most Juniors don’t know Calculus, even seniors), it wouldn’t be reliable for colleges, because a person who simply didn’t take Calculus yet would be portrayed as extremely bad at Math, even though they may be getting 100s in Algebra 2 or Pre-Calculus. There is already a way to see if a kid is good at Calculus, which is looking at their transcript and seeing what they got in that class, if they took it. Plus, the simplicity of the material on the SAT gives them room to ask questions in ways that students haven’t seen before, but keeping it at a level that is not impossible for most students. If questions were in a normal format, the test would be a lot easier and there would be a large cluster of kids in the top 100 points, which would again make the test unreliable for colleges. The score should be around 500 average for each section for it to be a useful admission criteria.</p>
<p>This post brings about an interesting viewpoint. I understand what you’re saying about distinguishing among the multiple students who receive a 2400 on the SAT or a 36 on the ACT. I do agree with the view regarding subject tests specifically, since they do seem quite unusual. Take the SAT II Math Level 2, for instance. Something like the top 13% of test-takers get an 800, a perfect score (myself included). However, I know that of the hundreds of kids that do receive an 800, there is probably an incredible variability in actual mathematical ability (outside of what is being tested). However, putting this aside, we should also look at the purpose of these tests. That is, to assert whether a given student meets the academic criteria of a certain college or not. In other words, “Does X cut it or not?” </p>
<p>I don’t think the main goal of colleges is to form a list of students, with the smartest and brightest at the top. For this reason, I think that the ability of standardized tests to discriminate students’ academic abilities is competent and meets the necessary standard, even though it may not be as scrutinizing as some may desire.</p>
<p>I don’t think calculus or literary analysis should be brought into standardized high school tests. However I do agree that the SAT should do a better job at distinguishing top individuals. For example, I am still confused why 13-15% of test takers score an 800 on Math II (myself also included) but only a 44-45/50 is needed. They should make it so that only a 50/50 is an 800. </p>
<p>As a side note, I feel that the essay should be revamped (I know they’re making changes to the SAT, correct me if they’re changing the essay significantly). A 25-minute essay is not enough to revise or edit your essay, which is a major part of the writing process. Also the essay allows for BS-ing from made-up sources. While I’m not completely against this, I’d like to see an essay section where they present you with several sources and you write an essay for or against a topic using some of those sources, given a longer time limit.</p>
<p>But the point of the SAT is not to differentiate every single student in the country. The point is to have some sort of standardized test that students can take to give some idea of core competencies in math, English, and writing. It’s not going to be perfect (no test is), which is why it’s NOT the sole factor in a college application. A single test couldn’t possibly differentiate every single student in the country, and it’s not supposed to. These two students you listed would easily be distinguished in their college applications.</p>
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<p>I think you need to relax. It’s just a test. It is not your entire application, and to be honest, until I joined CC, I had no idea anyone took this test that seriously. Everyone I knew just took it–maybe with the help of a prep book. If they didn’t do as good as they wanted to, they studied and took it again. It is not the only part of the application for a reason. A single test can’t separate applicants entirely.</p>
<p>A perfect score shouldn’t be impossible. If it is, there’s something wrong with the test. Very few students get a perfect score. The college board says for 2013 that 99th percentile for critical reading was 760, for math was 780, and for writing was 760, suggesting that less than 1% get 800s on each section, and far fewer get 800s in every section (the 99th percentile for the composite score was 2220). 494/1,660,047 students got a 2400, which is 0.0003 or 0.03% of college-bound seniors. What percentage would you be satisfied with–0%? What about a 2390? Would you be okay if students were able to achieve that? You will never be able to write a test that no student can get a perfect score on, unless you put some really unreasonable questions on there. Someone will always figure out how to beat the test. That’s just a fact of life.</p>
<p>And no, Calculus shouldn’t be on the SAT. Yes, on CC it’s nearly a required high school course, but Calculus is still college level material, and this is a high school test. Students can easily show college their aptitude in Calculus through AP tests and community college courses.</p>
<p>The SAT is part of a general application package, not the sole factor that colleges use to admit or reject students. Colleges can still see what scores they got on other exams, what classes they took, what extracurriculars they participated in, etc. Distinctions CAN be made between the students who get 800s–you just have to read the rest of the application.</p>
<p>494 students got 2400, out of something like 1.6 million test takers. </p>
<p>But 800s are far more common than that, because there are many students who are strong in one area but not the other. And also because the SAT is not forgiving of careless mistakes.
<a href=“http://research.collegeboard.org/content/sat-data-tables”>http://research.collegeboard.org/content/sat-data-tables</a>
CR:11,138
writing: 6,835
math: 13,316
I think the reason the SAT2’s allow for more mistakes in the curve is to avoid penalizing students whose high school courses didn’t cover every single thing on the tests.</p>
<p>But I actually somewhat agree with the OP. I think the SAT should include some more difficult questions. Not testing college level material, but there are plenty of harder math problems you can make up using math at levels below calculus. You can see them on math competitions such as the AMC and AIME. Look at the number of 800’s in math. It’s going to be pretty much the norm for STEM applicants to top colleges. How does this help the colleges?</p>
<p>I think it’s especially a problem on the PSAT where if you live in a high cutoff state, just a few careless errors or misjudging your pacing can cost you a fortune in scholarships. </p>
<p>In response to a few comments made earlier, I think it’s a mistake to say that the colleges can just tell the college board how to administer the test. I don’t think the colleges were telling the college board what to do when they included the writing section (that came from a sex-discrimination complaint) or when they instituted score choice (don’t know where this came from but seems like an obvious money grab–what possible reason would the colleges have for telling the college board to withhold information from them), or from discontinuing notification to colleges that students had received accommodation on the SAT test (complaint from a test-taker with no hands), or this most recently announced upcoming “new” SAT. And to respond to another commentator, the essay on the new SAT is supposed to be different. Students will no longer be allowed to make things up. It will be more like DBQ. </p>
<p>OP seems to be a student who actually scored a perfect score on the subject test and is merely disgruntled that his/her score will not be distinguished more over another student who also received a “perfect” score yet missed several questions. </p>
<p>@18yrcollegemin No, I got a 780 on math 2 and a 660 on physics. I did, however, get an 800 on the math portion of the SAT I, but I can assure you that my opinion is completely objective. As a matter of fact, if I were to speak subjectively, it would be because I don’t think I should have an 800 in math. Sure, it is a strong suit for me, but I don’t deserve a “perfect” score on a test that is supposed to measure all of my knowledge in mathematics.</p>
<p>I don’t like the label “perfect score” because it seems to imply that there is no room for improvement. </p>
<p>I agree with immasenior. SAT Maths should cover high level calculus too.</p>
<p>We (Indians) are taught so much in Indian schools 3/4rth of which doesn’t even come in SAT. A guy who studies 1/4rth gets a 800 and we study the whole thing and get a 800. Even though the guy who studied the concept in great detail is a better pick, colleges consider both students as equally good. </p>
<p>Speaking for Indians, we are taught much more than what is taught in American Schools but there is no place or us to showcase that. </p>
<p>SAT Subject Tests should be of much higher difficulty. Then only one can differentiate the best students from the lot of good ones.</p>
<p>"SAT Maths should cover high level calculus too… Then only one can differentiate the best students from the lot of good ones. " Or the ones who had the opportunity to study calculus before taking these exams. There’s a difference between making harder questions on material all students have had a chance to study, and making questions on material that is more advanced than many students had the opportunity to study. Is it really true that all Indian students are taught so much more than the US curriculum? Or is it just a privileged few?</p>