<p>One of the ways - the only way, really - for me to resolve certain delicate questions re consciousness* is to think of it (our own conscious experiences) as a * necessary illusion *. Just like how in order to distinguish between photon wavelengths, atomic vibrations, and various chemicals, it is necessary for the the otherwise undetectable phenomena to be recast to us in what is a illusory form (as colors, sounds, and smells, respectively), so to is ______________ recast as conscious experience. To reinforce the analogy: the same exact thing could be asked about our other senses - i.e what phenomena is it that is recast as olfactory experience or visual experience of auditory experience. (in these cases we have answers).</p>
<p>I think the same question can be posed to conscious experience, as I have done. I don't know what the blank is, what consciousness is a projection of - if it is as simple as sufficient intelligence, or if it is something more abstract and fundamental like it is with the other senses. But I think looking at consciousness from this perspective is somewhat enlightening w/r/t the delicate questions.</p>
<p>*i.e questions like - why am I conscious when I am conscious? why am I who I am? why am I conscious from this particular coordinate in space? why am I not a conscious being on some other planet, part of some other conscious species; why on earth? why now? why at all (in all of time one could never be conscious - in fact this is the fate of most conceivable consciousnesses); etc.</p>
<p>Theres some things we would never know. Picture an asymptote, forever unable to reach the end.</p>
<p>Me, I believe genes controls everything. Think about it this way: Genes are like the algorithm in a Computer Chess software. Put it into an environment and it’ll naturally play out, reacting and adjusting to each new change. </p>
<p>Consciousness would just be a byproduct of evolutionary genes trying its best to survive and pass it on.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s a decision. It just is, because of pure molecular meetings that resulted in the fertilization of you as a zygote. Concsiousness is the result of a cortex that can support thinking. </p>
<p>I don’t agree with you Yuppie because the environment does play a very significant factor in an organism along with genes. But we certainly aren’t total slaves to DNA.</p>
<p>I’m not asking the question why is humanity conscious…</p>
<p>I’m asking the question why are YOU conscious. Obviously humanity is conscious because we have a sufficiently good memory, and have a developed language which gives us clear concepts such as I and you, etc. That is not what is so hard to explain. What’s get’s harder to explain is why conscious experience has to accompany conscious animals, why we ourselves have to be part of the collective consciousness at all, and what determines all of this (which vantage point you see from, why perception is concentrated to the place where it is, etc.).</p>
<p>this was far more fascinating than my other related thread. those who responded didn’t seem to “get” what I was saying. That, or I need to express it better or think more about it, or no one cares.</p>
<p>Well, I think that now that the human faculty is very advanced, people think of their consciousness as different or separate from their physical body- are you in essence saying that we’re like “avatars”, where we control the body but are merely living in its shoes. I just think it’s a result of our sophisticated mind, that has caused us to believe that our conscious is somehow separate. In primative creatures ie. virtually all non-human animals, I doubt there is this distinction because their mind is too simple to view their mind as something separate.</p>
<p>sufficiently conscious life is going to feel like it’s separate from it’s body. The experience of that consciousness is in some sense being that avatar. I was talking about other things…</p>
<p>Well I have no idea what you’re talking about then… I guess we’re not on the same page. I assumed you were talking about what I was talking about when you talked about
“What’s get’s harder to explain is why conscious experience has to accompany conscious animals, why we ourselves have to be part of the collective consciousness at all”</p>
<p>this attempts to explain what I mean, it’s from another thread:</p>
<p>It’s not enough to say consciousness comes from the brain, that people with certain brains (brains that are healthy, that work well) are conscious. One has to ask additionally why one is one of those many conscious brains at all, why on earth, why at the time when they are conscious, etc. It’s very easy to imagine a universe where everything is the same except for you are not conscious (where someone else has the feeling of perceiving from your body). The question is why this universe and not that one, kind of.</p>
<p>…because it is. Why do hydrogen and oxygen make water? Because that’s just what happens. You are assuming that there needs to be a reason for things to happen in a particular way. Can’t it just be random, happenchance? You’re born in this Universe, not the parallel one, because your Mom and Dad were born in this one.</p>
<p>Well, I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure- if we truly have a purpose for living in the body that we do, there could be some creationism at work and then you get into religion. I guess my cynical view on this is that our minds think we are more special than we are. Maybe it’s just a bunch of neural networks and the fact that our minds are extremely sophisticated allows us to project ourselves as special “souls” with the purpose of living in the body that we do.</p>
<p>Are you trying to say that consciousness and brains aren’t completely tied together? I was under the impression that individual consciousness *arises *from having a functioning brain. Unless you’re saying something completely different.</p>
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<p>It will? Why is that? You’ll have to explicitly define what you mean by “consciousness,” since I feel like we’re not on the same page.</p>
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<p>A collective consciousness? Again, I was under the impression that human beings have independent sentience (from each other) that is a result of our own functioning brains.</p>
<p>I’m not a fan of metaphysics. There’s no reason to believe, to my knowledge, that our consciousness as we currently understand it will continue to survive after our brains have deteriorated sufficiently.</p>
<p>This is how I sort of think of it too. I think of conscious experience as a necessary illusion (not dissimilar to color in some ways), like I said in the OP.</p>
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<p>consciousness can be felt to varying intensities. The typical conscious experience of a human like you or me is what I mean by consciousness. </p>
<p>By collective consciousness I just meant we are each one of the many conscious humans on earth. More generally, we are one of the many conscious organisms in the universe. </p>
<p>Yeah, consciousness is an artifact of the brain. Like you, I’m of what I think is the sensible opinion that it won’t outlive the brain in any sense. Still, there are odd questions about who is doing the assigning, who decided I perceive from these eyes and not yours, or a conscious alien’s. Of course I don’t really think there’s any assigning going on (the OP is along the lines of what I currently think).</p>