<p>went to Cornell - in the days of the dinosaurs it was one of the first to accept women and no “little sister” was for me. I worry about the grueling academics, huge lectures and TA taught courses. Not sure what D will prefer, but I am encouraging LACs.</p>
<p>Looks like Ivy+M/S grads don’t aspire for their kids to do follow in their Ivy footsteps. Or at least won’t admit it on this board. Why would they? Any response of the like would elicit flames on what a what a misguided parent they were! Judgement on how they were chasing prestige as an end. And commentary on how Ivy does not equal “success and/or happiness”. No thanks, I won’t bite!</p>
<ul>
<li>SevenDad: Penn; Only if child is interested/school offers desired area of study</li>
<li>ExieMITAlum: MIT; Suggested Yale and Brown. Child declined and we’re happy with her rationale. None offered strong programs in her target major. Potentially on the radar for Grad school.</li>
<li>SharingGift: MIT; no preference</li>
<li>3togo: IVY+M/S; want our kids to go to schools that will challenge them and are good fits … each of oldest did NOT pick their highest rank option out of high school and we absolutely backed their choices (both supporting them and agreeing with them).</li>
<li>ChoatieMom: U of M + HBS; I’m much more attached to my undergraduate school (Go Blue!) Have not/will not steer DS toward any college, only away from OSU for obvious reasons.</li>
<li>toombs61: Harvard; Hanover was his goal, not mine, although I’m sure that my attending Harvard encouraged him to chase an Ivy League education (for better or worse). He applied to Dartmouth. He got in.</li>
<li>honoraryamom: IVY+M/S; For my kids, I have no preference other than that they understand themselves well enough in high school to choose what best suits them. I suspect one will fit best at a small LAC, while the other will probably fit well and prefer one of those “top tier” or similar.</li>
<li>friendlymom: Stanford; I want both of my DCs to attend the “best” school they can, but my definition of “best” is pretty broad in that it encompasses pretty much any strong and well-regarded college or university.</li>
<li>BAREERS: Penn [GO QUAKERS!]; No preference, for now. Waiting for her and her advisor to give us a list and rationale for its creation.</li>
<li>ThacherParent: double legacy Penn. Of our three children, one attended Penn (English), one CU (science) and the other GW (Elliott School – International Relations). The last child did not have a lot of say because Mom worked at the University Hospital and we got 50% off tuition. My learning over those 12 expensive years: the college choice is not as important as I thought it was, a second tier school may actually have a top program, any of the top 50 schools would have been fine. Like I’ve said in many past posts, high school choice was more important to us than college choice.</li>
</ul>
<p>creative1, oh yes indeed. My son’s college counselor last year at THS came up with over half of the schools to which my boy applied. The counselor knew what he was doing: my son got into almost every school on the counselor’s list (and there were some excellent colleges there, e.g. UChicago, Georgetown, JHU, CMU, etc.). My son got WL’ed or rejected, however, at almost all of the schools on his own list (many Ivies, Williams, Amherst, etc.). Counselors at BS’s really seem to know their business, IMHO.</p>
<p>@creative1: I hope that’s partly what I’m paying for. I surely don’t want DS to have to rely on our narrow experience with colleges or what we read in USNWR, and his experience is nill; he’s still in high school. The adults around him know him better as a student now than we do, and that separation will be even wider next year when it comes time to craft a list. We’re looking forward to what they come up with as it will reflect a depth of understanding and honesty about our child’s abilities and aspirations that we no longer have.</p>
<p>@Sharpener: I’m sorry you feel that you can’t express your true opinions here. I have no hesitation posting a contrary opinion (and have several times). It always sparks a lively debate. I never feel slapped down but am always better informed for the volleys. If people truly can’t express an honest opinion, there is not much point in discussion. I’d be interested in what you have to say.</p>
<p>Go Buckeyes!!</p>
<p>Sharpener- I’ll bite! DH and I went to Ivy Equivalents undergrad (and Ivy for grad school so I guess that counts). Both kids were guided by their college counselor to Ivy Equivalents and are (so far) happy and successful. However, I do think that these threads where posters are encouraged to post their dreams and then shot down for being “prestige seekers” who don’t care about “fit” and have given birth to future investment bankers or hedge fund managers are a little unfair.</p>
<p>Oh this negativity is getting so old - especially when it horns in on an otherwise positive thread. @baystate - NO ONE is saying that. The “people” who get shot down tend to be the ones who want affirmation that ONLY an IVY path is the right one absent of anything more than reputation but then denigrate other college choices - even making disparaging comments about the parents and students who choose those alternatives.</p>
<p>That’s why this thread is so wonderful - it’s a good place to share our own choices without slamming and adding filters and assuming everyone else needs an interpretation of what “other people” mean.</p>
<p>I am a graduate of MIT and then a Harvard “graduate/professional school” and I am DEFINITELY trying to steer my DC towards an IVY. With the competition as fierce as it is now I just don’t see how a kid has a reasonable chance of a HYPSM acceptance without strong “coaching”, careful early preparation, and strong support (both emotional and financial) from parents. I feel my DC has the potential to attend an IVY, so I now view it as my obligation to use any honest means at my disposal to help DC to that end.</p>
<p>I am, frankly, surprised (stunned?) that other IVY league grads don’t have the same expectations/hopes for their children. Especially ones that value education enough that they spend their precious time on CC.</p>
<p>Even with all the above, there is the much greater likelihood that DC will not get the IVY acceptance. Will I consider my DC a failure if they don’t get to an IVY? Of course not. Will I be disappointed? In all honesty… yes. But my DC and both parents are committed to giving it our best shot. For us, it started with having DC understand parents’ expectatation and then having DC set their own.</p>
<p>Okay, I have bitten while donning my flame-retardent underwear.</p>
<p>“I am, frankly, surprised (stunned?) that other IVY league grads don’t have the same expectations/hopes for their children.”</p>
<p>Sharpener, I personally am fine with that approach, assuming room is left for the kid to choose a non-ivy/m/s, if he wants. As for my own lack of focus on those schools for my kids, it is because I had a later in life educational experience (graduate program pursued mid-life for career change) which was far better for me than my prestigious undergrad and professional school. It inspired a whole new way of looking at life, perhaps not unlike the dramatic “transformation” that parents of BS kids describe. It was a sort of “alternative” school, worlds apart from my beloved ivy and professional program, and such a profound and meaningful experience, that I want to be sure my kids feel free enough to explore such “hidden gem” college experiences. That said, I do think one of my kids is well suited to the ivy experience, so I don’t want to sabotage her opportunity for that, either, and understand your comments about coaching and preparation.</p>
<p>Sharpener, in my real life I place senior leaders at managed infrastructure and Cloud services companies. I’m always struck by the relatively small number of IVY/MIT/Stanford grads populating the upper ranks of this hot segment of IT. I do see the occasional Princeton, MIT. Stanford etc and it’s certainly a great starting point. It tells me that the candidate might be smart (although that’s not a given). </p>
<p>More often than not, the executives growing and running these companies are graduates of schools that people on this site would claim are second tier. Comp packages for these execs run from 500k – 3MM – not exactly slouch pay. While there are professions (consulting, often medicine, often law) where your college choice is important and is heavily promoted on the firm’s website, there are more paths for financial success where an Ivy imprimatur is unnecessary. </p>
<p>My point with all of this is that if your kid is smart, wired for success, has self-discipline and attends any number of good colleges or Universities (especially if followed by graduate school), the sky remains the limit. Ivy is not necessary; it just isn’t. This opinion doesn’t address the VERY REAL impact an Ivy admission has on a person or family’s sense of self or social standing if that sort of thing is important.</p>
<p>I am confident my children have wonderful flight paths to success regardless of their college choice (within reason.) I spend my precious time on CC because I believe lifelong habits of learning and living are set more intensely during HS than college.</p>
<p>judging from the overall tone of this forum I thought the poll result would be a more anti-ivy one. Instead its the “I will support whatever my kid wants” one. What do you think the parents of ivy applicants w legacy hooks would say? That they forced their kids into their alma mater? Parents don’t exaggerate your power. Truth is if your kid is in a school where 1/3 of the class go to an ivy+ then chances are your kid would apply to one or more; if only a few kids in their class do they may choose not to cause the culture isn’t there. Its good so many of you don’t give a damn to your own league anyway so you are covered.</p>
<p>Hi Sharpener, </p>
<p>I understand your surprise that Ivy grads would not be really pushing the same path for their kids. If you asked us 4 years ago, we would have given a different answer and been pro-push, however, with a kid now about to graduate from a non-Ivy ‘up and coming, non-ivy equivalent’, we have been enlighted by this experience. Our kid chose the school, though we tried every trick/bribe in the book to alter the choice…and we were dead wrong. The education, social experience and environment have been a perfect fit. Though you never know if a different path would have worked, when we reflect on the choice, we conclude that we would have done our child a disservice to push our alternatives over their choice. </p>
<p>We were not born as parents, and are trying to learn from our experiences and, for us, we trust our kids to lead us on this one. It may not be right for every family, and may not be appropriate for all our kids, but for the first two, it seems like the way to go.</p>
<p>Hope this background helps.</p>
<p>PS: We are not at all ‘anti-ivy’. Just pro-kid choice :-)</p>
<p>I keep trying to write another post to this thread and they keep coming out wrong … here’s another try … </p>
<p>With my two oldest I’ve seen about 50 schools (formal tours or walking/driving tours) and the overwhelming impression I’ve had is what great choices our kids have … school after school I keep thinking this would be a excellent school for the right student. Our kids are pretty sharp kids (in the IVY hunt grades and SAT wise) and from what I’ve seen there are probably about 150 schools at which I do not think they would be selling themselves short academically … about 100 universities and about 50 LACs.</p>
<p>Given this breadth of viable alternatives I am at a loss of why I would push my kids into a small subset of schools because of what I think and overriding the the preferences of my kids … and so far they are 2 for 2 picking schools that were great for them. </p>
<p>(PS - one caveat, all our kids have their acts relatively together so there are not any secondary issues where additional parent involvement is warranted)</p>
<p>@Sharpener: What I hear you saying is that you have high expectations for your child and you see an Ivy as a satisfaction of those expectations. Fair enough. I also have high expectations for my child (to him whom much as been given, much is expected), but I dont know exactly what that will look like for him. In fact, the direction his BS experience is enabling him to go is very far from my comfort zone and will definitely not result in an Ivy, though the top programs for his passion have Ivy-like acceptance rates and will be a similar crapshoot. We just expect him to achieve HIS best level of success, whatever that looks like.</p>
<p>Now, confession time: I attended a public ivy followed by HBS ten years later, but I walked out of HBS well before graduation because, frankly, I hated the place. Ive never looked back. So, technically, Im not an Ivy grad, although I dont think the B-school has the same pedigree as Harvard College. Because I had already taken a start-up public before entering the program, eventually, HBS just seemed (and was) superfluous for my experience and goals. The point of this information is to help address your comment:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I was successful prior to HBS with just my lowly degree from Michigan. 
Im not sure what I expected the Harvard degree to confer that I hadnt already achieved. From this experience, I learned that success doesnt come from the particular school you attend, so I dont put much stock in that. On the other hand, I do value education and the life of the mind very highly, so I want my child to have the benefit of the best education he can consume. I just dont have a pre-conceived notion of where he should go to get that. Certainly an Ivy can provide it, but so can hundreds of other schools. I think its fine for you to want your child to aim high, and I think its fine for you to explain to your child why you think the Ivies represent that target. As long as you dont consider your child a failure if it doesnt work out that way and your child understand that, too (as you state), then no need for the fancy underwear. Thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>Now, why can’t all parents be like Choatiemom? Just pay for your kids and let them figure out what they want to do. Too many tigerparents on CC. Go Buckeyes!</p>
<p>+1 ChoatieMom - well said!</p>
<p>Updated consolidated list:</p>
<ul>
<li>SevenDad: Penn; Only if child is interested/school offers desired area of study</li>
<li>ExieMITAlum: MIT; Suggested Yale and Brown. Child declined and we’re happy with her rationale. None offered strong programs in her target major. Potentially on the radar for Grad school.</li>
<li>SharingGift: MIT; no preference</li>
<li>3togo: IVY+M/S; want our kids to go to schools that will challenge them and are good fits … each of oldest did NOT pick their highest rank option out of high school and we absolutely backed their choices (both supporting them and agreeing with them).</li>
<li>ChoatieMom: U of M + HBS; I’m much more attached to my undergraduate school (Go Blue!) Have not/will not steer DS toward any college, only away from OSU for obvious reasons.</li>
<li>toombs61: Harvard; Hanover was his goal, not mine, although I’m sure that my attending Harvard encouraged him to chase an Ivy League education (for better or worse). He applied to Dartmouth. He got in.</li>
<li>honoraryamom: IVY+M/S; For my kids, I have no preference other than that they understand themselves well enough in high school to choose what best suits them. I suspect one will fit best at a small LAC, while the other will probably fit well and prefer one of those “top tier” or similar.</li>
<li>friendlymom: Stanford; I want both of my DCs to attend the “best” school they can, but my definition of “best” is pretty broad in that it encompasses pretty much any strong and well-regarded college or university.</li>
<li>BAREERS: Penn [GO QUAKERS!]; No preference, for now. Waiting for her and her advisor to give us a list and rationale for its creation.</li>
<li>2prepMom: Cornell; I worry about the grueling academics, huge lectures and TA taught courses. Not sure what D will prefer, but I am encouraging LACs.</li>
<li>ThacherParent: Penn; The college choice is not as important as I thought it was, a second tier school may actually have a top program, any of the top 50 schools would have been fine. Like I’ve said in many past posts, high school choice was more important to us than college choice.</li>
<li>baystateresident: Ivy equivalent + Ivy GS; Both kids were guided by their college counselor to Ivy Equivalents and are (so far) happy and successful.</li>
<li>Sharpener: MIT + Harvard GS; I am DEFINITELY trying to steer my DC towards an IVY. With the competition as fierce as it is now I just don’t see how a kid has a reasonable chance of a HYPSM acceptance without strong “coaching”, careful early preparation, and strong support (both emotional and financial) from parents. I feel my DC has the potential to attend an IVY, so I now view it as my obligation to use any honest means at my disposal to help DC to that end.</li>
</ul>
<p>@Sharpener: I truly appreciate your honesty and effort in adding your voice to the mix.</p>
<p>Many things come into play for me when it comes to how much guidance we are giving/not giving our kids regarding college (currently 10th grade and 7th grade).</p>
<p>For starters, we live at the outer edge of the Princeton orbit…with plenty of double legacies (and multi-gen legacies), Ivy legacies, and “Ivy or bust” folks (these tend to be immigrant families, btw) woven into the social fabric. A condition which I think tends to make kids in the area WAY more conscious of what an “elite” college is and how it is something to be pursued than the average American kid. So I try to fight against that in the same way I fight against other cultural influences I don’t wholly subscribe to.</p>
<p>Did I have a great time getting the gentleman’s B at Penn? Did I make lifelong friends? Did I get to sit in Drew Faust’s classes and be mesmerized by her passion for Southern history? Do I have a sense of pride of having graduated from an “elite” institution? Yes. Yes. Yes. And Yes. But I also know that for what I do for a living (which I’ve done since graduation), an Ivy League degree and a Metrocard will get you on the subway.</p>
<p>Additionally, I think the admissions game is in a different league from those halcyon days of being late for classes in Steinberg-Dietrich. There’s certainly very little chance I’d get into Penn these days. My kids, though, are a different story…older girl had higher SATs scores than her dad when she was in 7th grade. Younger girl is elite (nationally ranked) athlete in a sport dominated by Ivy (and D1 state/private universities) schools. Day school sent 15% of last year’s senior class to Princeton. So I think they both have a shot if they keep their grades up and have strong scores/good essays & reccos.</p>
<p>My older girl has expressed some interest in two different fields for which U Del and Montana Tech offer great programs. Will I consider her going to either a “failure”? Of course not. But some parents (maybe even my own!) might point to either as a less than stellar outcome, an outcome which we didn’t need to send her to boarding school to get. And perhaps they are right. But that still doesn’t change my feeling that boarding school was the right choice for her, and her particular BS an even “more right” choice.</p>
<p>To touch on creative1’s question about helping our kids put lists together…I’m in both the “isn’t that part of what we are paying for” and the “I’d hope the BS college counselors’ info is a bit more up-to-date as well as broader than what little I know about the college scene of today” camps. Additionally, I would hope with tools like Naviance and their own years of experience, they would have a much better understanding of what the likelihood of admission is than their old man.</p>
<p>@Sharpener,</p>
<p>I don’t think we are encouraging kids to slack off. We all want kids to work the hardest they can and pursue their passion.
However, I’d rather my child get 8 hours of good sleep each night than perfecting underwater tuba playing unless it’s their passion.
Neither I’m researching nor training Olympic sports for DC.
<a href=“NPR - Breaking News, Analysis, Music, Arts & Podcasts : NPR”>NPR - Breaking News, Analysis, Music, Arts & Podcasts : NPR;
(search ‘college application’ in text)</p>
<p>With double selective colleges and double HYP grad degrees, I feel the children feel the expectations and pressure already. We do not see the need to reiterate.</p>
<p>Although we say we love you no matter what, they may think that we are only saying that to hide our disappointments.</p>