<p>Now,there u are,I said APs are NOT school leaving exams for INTERNATIONALS..........AP is basically for American school system n not for internationals,so,if an international takes APs,he/she is NOT required to take SAT 2 just like if you take A level and then you are not required to take SAT 2(You may need to ask the college for this...I have asked from MIT and they replied this).....n who said that APs are totally different from A levels?.....although the level may be different,A levels are equivalent to APs,n I dont really find APs tough from any angle!!!.....and these are the reasons y they are considered given same credits...</p>
<p>As far as US admissions go, A'Levels and AP are similar as far as getting advanced credit is concerned. But there the similarity ends. Outside the US, in almost any country, A'Levels are recognised as pre-university qualifications, whereas AP's are not; as far as I am aware American students applying abroad need to show their high school grades together with the SAT for admission. Even within the US, universities recognise that O' and A'Levels may be the only exams mentioned on transcripts, which is why for admission purposes A'Levels are given more weight than APs (for example school reports for international students often have supplements in which the results of O' and A'Levels or comparable exams have to be submitted).</p>
<p>NBZ is right on. Pegasus, you don't seem to have grasped the point of my analogy. The point is that you can't say colleges treat A Levels and APs equivalently for admissions purposes just because they treat them equivalently for the purpose of calculating advanced credit. A Levels exist in a very different school system from the one APs are used in.</p>
<p>Btw the similarity in curriculum is irrelevant since the rigor of testing is very different. For A Level Physics, for example, total testing time is 10 h 15 min (divided among 6 written papers and 2 practical papers). I seriously doubt whether APs are comparable in terms of rigor. This explains why such a large no. of international high schools prepare students for A'Levels full-time, and also why A'Levels are accepted as substitutes for high school whereas APs are not.</p>
<p>I completely disagree with your point here NBZ,........,APs are on there place and A levels are on there...............there is no comparision b/n them that can conclude that '' A'Levels are accepted as substitutes for high school whereas APs are not''
let me tell you one thing,A level is not a SUBSTITUTE,and as for rigor,here you are only considering TIME,but my dear,if you consider the level difference then you would perhapes change your thinking.....</p>
<p>it seems we will have to disagree on this.</p>
<p>i do know for a fact that a lot of high schools only mention O' and A'Level results on students' transcripts, with no mention of high school examinations; and yet their students are at no disadvantage when it comes to admissions. </p>
<p>About the rigor factor, it should be fairly obvious that when the testing time is higher, you are tested on the same topic to a greater depth. APs can't help being less rigorous due to more limited time, that is why they are usually complemented by high school grades and exams.</p>
<p>Otherwise there would be many high schools which would issue transcripts containing AP results only.</p>
<p>NBZ:Again,you are comparing rigorousness with time limitation,increasing testing time does NOT tell anyone about the ''rigorousness'' of that exam,for a great example,which I have faced myself,there is an entrance exam in India for IIT(Indian Institute of Tech.),its exam last for about 3+3 hrs......similarly if you give SAT 2 and take many subjects(say 3 or 4),it will take the same time,BUT,if you were to give IIT and SAT 2 both,then,as the course is same for them both,you will prepare for it(I mean you cant go to any exam without prep.!!!),and when you will give SAT 2 you might say it was rigorous BUT when you give IIT exam then,I am sure you will go HAYWARE.......and after that day on you will say that altough the time and course were same BUT,the difference in level is DAMN uncomparable........
What I mean to say is,I totally disagree with your point of expressing ''rigorousness'' as a dependent of time,but you are clearly ignorin other factors like the LEVEL of exam,etc.....
The level of APs are higher than A levels(atleast for many ppl) and so you cant point out rigorousness in terms of Time factor alone!!!!</p>
<p>isaac i think you misinterpreted what I said and I guess I am to blame for that since i see i have not been completely clear...</p>
<p>The AP curriculum is comparable in rigorousness to the A'Level, since as already mentioned the syllabi of the two are similar. However, the AP tests themselves, however, cannot test students in as much detail as the A'Level exams purely due to the time factor. For example, if you ask two students to study the same material, but subject one to a 15 minute quiz and the other to a 2 hour quiz, your assessment of the second student is bound to be more accurate than that of the first (even though both students may be equally proficient in the subject).</p>
<p>That is why students with APs also need to submit grades of high school exams which do test them in detail, whereas for students with A'Levels, high school grades are not that important (or even required).</p>
<p>I was not, btw, in any way implying that AP students have to study in less detail than their A'Level counterparts.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The level of APs are higher than A levels(atleast for many ppl)
[/quote]
Even a donkey wouldn't say that.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>In schools that follow the UK curriculum, and many others, school grades are meaningless and only serve to monitor progress leading to the examinations. British universities do not even ask for them, so the only thing that matters for admission purposes are the results from external examinations. (i.e. A levels, GCSEs)</p>
<p>School grades should not be considered for admission because the educational system of international schools is completely different (and better) from that of the US. In international schools, A levels are the only criteria that is looked at when evaluating academic ability. Mainly because the US system is ****, colleges have to look at high school grades, AP scores, as well as SAT scores because grades aren't standardized like they are with A levels. A levels combine all that (grades, AP, SAT) into one, and therefore there is no need for school grades or standardized tests.</p>
<p>[edited for courtesy]</p>
<p>
[quote]
The level of APs are higher than A levels(atleast for many ppl)<br>
Even a donkey wouldn't say that.
[/quote]
And what is the generalised idea in that?</p>
<p>This thread was about US (like, United States) universities and O and A level school/exam grades.
[quote]
School grades should not be considered for admission because the educational system of international schools is completely different (and better) from that of the US.
[/quote]
And so what if the educational systems are different? You are also forgetting that the educational systems among international schools also differ. So why shouldn't school grades be considered in admissions? </p>
<p>Its obvious to the admissions officer that educational systems in international schools differ, that's why US colleges ask schools to include a profile of the school and its grading system (as in percentages corresponding to which grades) with the transcript – which they request, written in plain English on college applications and websites, to help them better understand and see how stringent grading is at your schools and relate that to the grades you get. They also use school grades to examine how well you did in the classroom, and whether you performed well in challenging courses.
Exam results show HOW good a test taker you are. </p>
<p>A levels are not only administered by the British Cambridge board. Many countries have their own examining boards which set their own A levels, and thus, naturally, their exams will have varying levels of difficulty and grading percentages. </p>
<p>
[quote]
A levels combine all that (grades, AP, SAT), and therefore there is no need for school grades or standardized tests
[/quote]
Ah yes, tell us that there is no need for school grades and SATs. </p>
<p>As has been said BEFORE - most internationals DO NOT have their grades included in their A level results.
As far as I know this only exists in the UK.
But "International" encompasses much more than little UK.
And if A levels combine “all that’ (grades, SAT e.t.c.) then WHY do most US colleges ask ALL applicants, whether international or not, whether doing A levels or APs, to include a transcript, and SAT results.</p>
<p>[edited for courtesy]</p>
<p>
[quote]
They also use school grades to examine how well you did in the classroom, and whether you performed well in challenging courses.
Exam results show HOW good a test taker you are.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The content on the exams tests everything you have learned during the year. Most examining boards require coursework to be completed before the final exams. Therefore, the final grade depends not only on how well you can take tests, but also on how well you complete coursework. How is the US grading system any different?</p>
<p>
[quote]
And if A levels combine “all that’ (grades, SAT e.t.c.) then WHY do most US colleges ask ALL applicants, whether international or not, whether doing A levels or APs, to include a transcript, and SAT results.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Transcripts from international schools ONLY include grades from A levels etc. That's what the colleges are expecting.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As has been said BEFORE - most internationals DO NOT have their grades included in their A level results.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Have some idea of what you're talking about before making statements like this. Their A level results ARE their grades.</p>
<p>I assume you are not international based on your ignorance of this topic, and I suggest you stop posting to save yourself from further embarrasment.</p>
<p>Cool down everyone, this isn't exactly a life-and-death issue. :)</p>
<p>I know a lot of former students from my school whose transcripts had nothing more than a statement of the A'Level results and they got into pretty good US unis. You can go on arguing about this, but the fact remains that for international students following the A'Level system, A'Level results are the only things required on the transcript; school grades are optional thus most schools (in my country at any rate) don't bother to include them. If you don't believe me just email a college and see what they say.</p>
<p>Btw, A'Levels don't replace SAT I, but can sometimes be substituted for SAT IIs(depends on the college).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cool down everyone, this isn't exactly a life-and-death issue.
[/quote]
lol(10).....thats what I was gonna write....:)..
[quote]
Btw, A'Levels don't replace SAT I, but can sometimes be substituted for SAT IIs(depends on the college)
[/quote]
yeah.....indeed,many colleges do waive it,if asked...</p>
<p>
[quote]
The content on the exams tests everything you have learned during the year.
[/quote]
No they don't. Think now. Not everything in the syllabus is tested, and certainly not everything you have learnt is tested.
[quote]
Therefore, the final grade depends not only on how well you can take tests, but also on how well you complete coursework.
[/quote]
IF coursework is included in your exam result. Remember, not all A Level systems include coursework in the final grades.
[quote]
Transcripts from international schools ONLY include grades from A levels etc. That's what the colleges are expecting.
[/quote]
That's not a transcript. A transcript is your educational record (go see for yourself at the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary), i.e. grades earned throughout your educational career, more specifically in high school. You mean to tell me that A level exam grades are your high school educational record? Thats just a statement of your results. Understandably some schools may not offer transcripts to students, but this varies from country to country. The fact is A level results e.t.c ARE NOT a transcript. Foil - try and think now. If the "transcript" ONLY includes grades from A levels e.t.c, its basically an unofficial copy of your exam results. Nothing more, nothing less. And stop generalizing the whole "international schools' as if all of them follow the UK curriculum. You don't seem to know much about US admissions, and you still haven't answered part of my question - if "A Levels include all that (grades, SAT, e.t.c)" then why do so many US colleges ask ALL applicants,whether intel. or not, whether doing AP or A level, for SAT I results?
[quote]
Have some idea of what you're talking about before making statements like this. Their A level results ARE their grades
[/quote]
Which grades - classroom/coursework or exam grades/results? If you mean that A level results are their exam grades/results, then duh.
If you mean classroom/coursework grades, then its clear, you didn't bother looking at the previous posts, many other countries DO NOT include classroom grades/coursework in A Level results. And again, this all varies from country to country, so stop generalizing with your bold, sweeping statements. </p>
<p>You know nothing about me. For your own information, I have gone through O and A level curricula, so I do know what I'm talking about.</p>
<p>
[quote]
No they don't. Think now. Not everything in the syllabus is tested, and certainly not everything you have learnt is tested.
[/quote]
Perhaps not, but everything on the exams is what you have (or should have) learned throughout the year. In other words, the exams test how well you have performed in class. There is a strong positive correlation between your performance at school and in the exams, which is why there is no need for 2 grades for the same course.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That's not a transcript. A transcript is your educational record (go see for yourself at the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary), i.e. grades earned throughout your educational career, more specifically in high school. You mean to tell me that A level exam grades are your high school educational record?
[/quote]
That's right. In UK schools, everything done in high school is preparation for the final exams and coursework. Nobody here really cares about school grades. In fact, I don't recall ever receiving any last year. I'm pretty sure that this is true for many other countries.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You don't seem to know much about US admissions, and you still haven't answered part of my question - if "A Levels include all that (grades, SAT, e.t.c)" then why do so many US colleges ask ALL applicants,whether intel. or not, whether doing AP or A level, for SAT I results?
[/quote]
A levels are similar to the SAT IIs in that they are standardized. And many colleges already accept A levels in place of SAT IIs as many posters here have already stated. Perhaps you should "bother looking at the previous posts."</p>
<p>God, this is so silly.. comparing a levels and APs ... real mature guys</p>