A Startling Statistic at UCLA

Parents Forum
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<p>rorosen: I'm beginning to be fond of you, but do you have any personal experience with this stuff? "Radical, meaning challenging, is good..."</p>

<p>You probably glossed over it, but dross himself stated that he believed seminars were being held to murder him and his children and plan race wars. Please reread. Notice tone carefully.</p>

<p>I have come to my conclusion from reading dross's posts not only on this but on other threads. I most certainly did not come to that conclusion lightly, based on one sentence. Please!</p>

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<p>hereshoping:</p>

<p>I think quite a large part of the disconnect here is represented by your posts. My concerns make me seem as if I make much ado about nothing, because people like you don’t have to live under the</a> threat that people like me live under all day long.</p>

<p>"Light infantry is your branch of choice because the coming race war and the ethnic cleansing to follow will be very much an infantryman's war," he wrote. "It will be house-to-house, neighborhood-by-neighborhood until your town or city is cleared and the alien races are driven into the countryside where they can be hunted down and 'cleansed.' "
<a href="http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?sid=21%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?sid=21&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=66%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=66&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You can’t at all feel the weight, and so rather than take my report here seriously, to consider that what I am saying is possibly only hidden from you, you simply declare I am radical and begin to blame me for shouldering a burden you cannot see-- which only adds to the weight of it. This is America. It’s racism is everywhere, leaching into the culture by varying degrees, and putting millions under its thumb.</p>

<p>Some have dedicated their lives to dealing with it. Some of these, like Jews, have the cultural capital and cohesion to protect their kids from it. They are also able to blend into the white population. And their kids do very well. But others, like blacks, don’t have these choices. They have little cultural capital with which to work, indeed they tend only to react destructively against it, and they certainly can’t blend in. Their kids are left to suffer, spending considerable energy running and trying to convince themselves of stuff they ought not have to deal with.</p>

<p>You will, of course, miss the entire point of this post and claim that I state here that hate groups are the cause of poor black academic performance.</p>

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<p>Drosselmeir: Let me ask you a point blank question. You don't like asians very much, do you?</p>

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<p>simba, let me ask you a point blank question,..how did you arrive at that screen name? why do you resist the circle of life? did your father truly perish in a stampede? your legion of fans demands an answer,..</p>

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<p>rorosen:</p>

<p>
[quote]
well, to keep beating this horse, I have wondered to what extent the humiliations Dross has experienced fit on the same emotional line as the notions contained in the word 'alienation'

[/quote]
I think there is a relationship between what I am talking about and the alienation everyone experiences at some point in their lives. In fact, I think at some level all of this is just one thing.</p>

<p>The problem is, with blacks, the scope of the alienation is vast. There are social, religious and general institutional forces in this country that forcefully and persistently maintain the disaffection. And these forces have existed since the early 1600s right up to today. We have never dealt with them. Whereas whites may experience temporary alienation, or, at worst, chronic alienation that is only local to them (affecting them only as individuals), black kids experience it far more comprehensively. They look around and see the thing continually bearing down on every single one of them. And to make it worse, they generally don’t have a clue what is going on. They just know they don’t feel comfortable. And it grows from there until they come into the racial consciousness that affects blacks generally. An indication of the widespread alienation can be seen in the words of blacks. Whites often refer to America as “my” country. Many blacks, almost instinctively, refer to it as “this” country. These folks have grown up under a social structure that keeps them always outside looking in.</p>

<p>There are ways to fight it. But all of them are fraught with difficulty. We could steel our kids against America by encouraging them to just give up in bitterness and despair, as some few blacks have done. Louis Farrakhan and guys like him, for example, offer blacks a belief system and life structure that is in many ways a lot healthier than wasting away in the inner city streets. But, of course, Louis Farrakhan is not exactly a guy I think anyone should follow. Alternatively, we could trust America, hiding our prejudices from our kids and teaching them to go for the opportunity that the country seems to offer. The idea here is to just hope for the best and teach the kids, even against our own perceptions, that they are in fact inside looking out, just like everybody else. The problem with this is, it is false (maybe?). I am just not sure America is worthy of this trust. It could be that if we choose this latter option, we are making our kids sitting ducks, vulnerable to the racism that could stop them cold and take them down.</p>

<p>I have chosen the latter option for my own kids because it just seems to me that since I am in this country, I need to work with it no matter what. And the kids seem to be getting on just fine, much better than I ever did. But none of this is easy. That is for darned sure.</p>

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<p>Simba. Friend. What have I said here to make you think I don’t like Asians!!!??? I am sincerely in the dark on this. Why would you ask me this question? Tell me this, and help me see my statements through your eyes.</p>

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<p>hereshoping, I assume you realize that dross refers to plots against people like him rather than him in particular.</p>

<p>Dross, i thought you were being somewhat alarmist but those articles are chilling. But these people are nature's genetic experiments that flourish only in barren landscapes. I believe our soil is at this time far too rich in nutrients for their anemic metabolisms to withstand. In other words i don't believe they are a symptom of any groundswell that can't be explained by inbreeding and/or terrible parenting or the inability to accept latent homosexual tendencies(the last, my pet theory on reckless boys who are exceedingly desperate for approval and unable to regard the female with proper esteem). I wouldn't blame mainstream white america for them any more than I would blame gangsta gangs on thoughtful blacks. thorns are thorns and i think it is best to prune extreme edges of the curve in order to understand the normal range.</p>

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<p>yes i agree about the scope. But everything is always filtered through indvidual eyes as the lived center of the world. I worry that you sometimes don't look beyond the surface of those fluffy-haired smiling white faces floating by. Scratch the surface and those shiny clueless teeth often will shatter into a thousand mummytomb curses. Now yes the curse may not originate within the societal infrastructures that subject blacks to unbearable pressures but lost is lost,...truly happy people are so rare that in any single day it registers bigtime when I see a spontaneous instance of joy. Miserable in a big shiny car or on a crowded bus might not appear all that different to the cosmic eye.</p>

<p>Forgive me if I seem to cast a people's collective suffering into relative terms, but I suspect money to be so often the easy culprit and believe, from my hanging around the middleclass, that these matters are poorly understood.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Dross, i thought you were being somewhat alarmist but those articles are chilling.

[/quote]
Please understand I am not claiming that mainstream whites are like this. I am saying that there is a big difference in how whites and blacks must live in this country. Whites can comfortably live without a thought about much of this stuff, and then think I am being alarmist in worrying about my kids as I do. They can afford to dismiss me as “radical” because they don’t live under this mess. And it is not just the hate groups. Its everything. This sort of stuff is just all throughout the culture in vast numbers of ways that Americans generally don’t think about. But when I go outside the walls of my home, here it comes –DUMP!!! It just comes hammering down, and I have to walk around with it all day long, acting as if it doesn’t exist, so that everyone else feels comfortable.</p>

<p>I’m not complaining here. I am just trying to share the reality of the thing, and help others see that kids, black kids, are under it too, and they are usually too weak and immature to handle it. This is why they do the things we see them doing, including producing poor academic performances.</p>

<p>I don’t think whites are generally like these skinheads. I don’t mean to give off this vibe (its hard to transmit the right tone over the Net). But I don’t think we can compare the gangstas to the racists. The gangstas are just reactionaries, products of our society. They aren’t infiltrating our military, shipping weapons to groups of whites in view of a race war in which blacks will be exterminated. I think the point I am trying to make is that this skinhead stuff is just one of tens of thousands of modern expressions of the racism that undergirded slavery. These expressions are the children of slavery, they are very many, and they are devastating our kids in many ways.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
yes i agree about the scope. But everything is always filtered through indvidual eyes as the lived center of the world. I worry that you sometimes don't look beyond the surface of those fluffy-haired smiling white faces floating by. Scratch the surface and those shiny clueless teeth often will shatter into a thousand mummytomb curses…

[/quote]
Hmmm. Yeah. I think you do make a good point. In fact, I recall you making this point earlier, and I really accepted it at the time. But somehow I gave it up afterward. I got it now.</p>

<p>Yeah. I know whites are living under their own burdens, and even though the scope of them may not be as vast as those which blacks carry, they are each in their own way undoubtedly just as heavy for the individuals involved.</p>

<p>So then why is it that blacks feel so different from whites? Why are we not understanding each other? I think the fact that our experience in slavery, and the racism that continues out of it even to this day, was and is so general and focus upon us as a group, we feel a particular kind of isolation from you. I don’t think its like blacks just LONG to be with whites. I think it is that we are stuck in this country and want to be part of everything it means, and have access to everything it offers, but find ourselves perpetually shut out of it by the institutional and social structures given to us by history.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Miserable in a big shiny car or on a crowded bus might not appear all that different to the cosmic eye.

[/quote]
In fact, I am almost sure of it. God likely sees just a big ol’ mess – since He is God and we’re not. But from my little view, I sure would prefer misery in that shiny car than on a bus. LOL.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Forgive me if I seem to cast a people's collective suffering into relative terms, but I suspect money to be so often the easy culprit and believe, from my hanging around the middleclass, that these matters are poorly understood.

[/quote]
Yeah. I think you are bang on here. We do think money solves everything and that the lack of it causes the problem. I may not seem like it here (because I am really focusing on one pitiful message to drum home one point), but I am a very happy guy. You can’t have a lovely wife and a pack of kids like I have and be sad. Kids don’t allow it. Once, I came home dejected about something or other, and one of my little girls, no more than two at the time, must have felt it. She came up to me, grabbed my face between her little hands, and looked at me very strangely. I mean, it was like something else was in the girl. Then she kissed me, and then suddenly went back to life as normal. I know in our modern times we don’t really believe what I am about to say, but I think God was in that kid, blessing me just when I needed Him. I in fact get this all the time in one way or another, and it makes me very much full of joy. Money can’t buy this.</p>

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<p>well, I worry every time my kids step out the door, expecting disaster not as a result of skin color but from cruel fate.</p>

<p>And everyone feels inferior in many departments,..whether the source for this is society, family, peers. I am not being provocative when I notice how whites are the lesser of the world's athletes. And I think physical prowess is a much more immediate index of power than the hidden dimension of intellect or even wealth. I believe that a majority of whites are actually in awe of black people perhaps though not for the reasons you would like to see. The skinheads are out to exterminate the jews too in a hatred which doesn't in my mind easily trace back to slavery. Your point about the internalization of inferiority is very meaningful because it leads to a deflection of all compliments. Much like when a female finds me sexy(yes this happened recently) I am at a loss to comprehend that evaluation.</p>

<p>just read your prior post. I always think of you as a happy guy more fortunate than almost anyone I've ever known. I'm actually relieved to find someone in this world I can respect since mostly everyone else is so inevitably disappointing. And what we have in common that transcends the actually quite humorous pigmentation of skin(like beanie babies we humans are) is the certainty that family is our sacred and blessed occupation.</p>

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<p>rorosen: I find it sad that the only person you have found to respect is an internet cyberspace stranger. </p>

<p>dross: You said of me: "You went to the other side because it is nice over there. You don't have to worry about the stuff that's on me for all my whole cottonpickin' life. But, hey, it's cool. Stay as you are."</p>

<p>Could you define "other side" for me? I thought you were interested in exploring some of the theories of Sowell, etc., yet here I think you are referring to them as the "other side"? Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you mean by "other side" so could you clarify?</p>

<p>I'd also like to hear more about your theory of the "white Jesus" - I read a long piece you wrote where you seemed pretty angry about blacks worshipping a "white Jesus." I can't find it and I would like to hear more about your thoughts on it if you feel like expounding on it.</p>

<p>"There are so many of you sitting strong and proud in your white skins."
You never clarified for me how your constant use of the term "the whites" is not racist in and of itself. Ever since you've started posting on this thread I've been amazed at how you can make sweeping generalizations about "the whites" or "whites" including your statement that whites were planning a race war. You did not say "skinheads" - you said "whites." BIG difference, no? </p>

<p>What if I said blacks were planning a race war (which some are, by the way). Would I be able to get away with that statement in polite society?</p>

<p>Why are you cut so much slack here for the outrageous statements that slip off your tongue like honey?</p>

<p>You can fool some of the people all of the time.....as they say...</p>

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<p>*In what way have you been able to take advantage of affirmative action mini?</p>

<p>Homebuying, access to mortgages (and at lower rates), access to capital (for businesses), access to better schools for the kids (if I wanted)...*</p>

<p>I have a question about mortgates- isn't it illegal to discriminate by race?
We had toassume a mortgage because we didn'tqualify to take one out on our own- so that limited the housing we could purchase & since we don't have savings, minority families couldnt have less.
I wonder if the experences that you are referring to are more of a class thing ( you have mentioned several times about the fancy LAC you have a degree from) rather than race</p>

<p>We didn't live where there were restrictive conventant- indeed my mother attended the same inner city high school as my daughter & as you know Seattle bused for integration purposes before it was required by law.
I realize that you are making broad assumptions of a group, but since others are arguing their experience, I am merely trying to illustrate that * my * experience is different.
I get tired of people assuming- to my face- that I am pretentious and priviledged, despite all appearances to contrary</p>

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<p>
[quote]
rorosen: I find it sad that the only person you have found to respect is an internet cyberspace stranger.

[/quote]
Well, to be fair to rorosen, we have spoken privately quite a lot. He knows quite a lot about me, my daughter, etc., and I know a bit more about him and at least one of his very cool girls. Our kids are hoping to connect when my daughter returns from France. While I am definitely flattered by ro’s kind words, I am just a guy, trying to make his way the best way he can. I have issues, just like everybody else (haha).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Could you define "other side" for me?

[/quote]
Anywhere I am not.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'd also like to hear more about your theory of the "white Jesus" - I read a long piece you wrote where you seemed pretty angry about blacks worshipping a "white Jesus." I can't find it and I would like to hear more about your thoughts on it if you feel like expounding on it.

[/quote]
I don’t really know what you have in mind. If you need some sort of clarification on it, then I would be happy to give it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"There are so many of you sitting strong and proud in your white skins."
You never clarified for me how your constant use of the term "the whites" is not racist in and of itself.

[/quote]
I never clarified this because I just didn’t think a term “the whites” is any more racist than the term “the blacks”.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Ever since you've started posting on this thread I've been amazed at how you can make sweeping generalizations about "the whites" or "whites" including your statement that whites were planning a race war. You did not say "skinheads" - you said "whites." BIG difference, no?

[/quote]
We are all speaking in generalizations here, friend. The idea here is to speak to the broad general effects these issue have on people. You have done likewise, I am sure, in discussing your opposing view on the issue. And yet no one here is claiming you are a racist.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What if I said blacks were planning a race war (which some are, by the way). Would I be able to get away with that statement in polite society?

[/quote]
It depends on the context, the point, and the evidence you have supporting it. I will say, however, that blacks didn’t come to this country planning to start a race war. They came here as slaves. They were dumped on for centuries, and now they live with the knowledge that groups of whites are entering our military to position themselves for a race war in which all blacks will be murdered. So if there are blacks planning a race war, they are only responding to what came previously.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Why are you cut so much slack here for the outrageous statements that slip off your tongue like honey?

[/quote]
I have no idea. I am just giving my opinion. It is only my opinion. If you think I am wrong, I’d like to see why so that I might possibly get a better opinion.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You can fool some of the people all of the time.....as they say...

[/quote]
Okay!</p>

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<p>Other side is anywhere you are not? Uh, okay.</p>

<p>There are generalizatons, and then there are generalizations. Saying whites are planning to murder you (or your people) is racist.</p>

<p>You mean I have to go and search for your long dissertaton on the white Jesus which you are now backing away from on this thread? I will find it and quote it. I just thought you could save me the trouble.</p>

<p>I do not feel your use of the term "the whites" is one of goodwill; whereas I feel people have been trying to honestly connect with you on an individual level on this thread in discussing AA and you have still not been willing to validate their own experiences as far as I can see. I do not remember anyone saying "the blacks" unless it was me using the term in quotes to call attention to your use of the term "the whites."</p>

<p>Nation of Islam was founded in the 1930's. Long before skinheads started to infiltrate our military. According to them white people are devils. They also organize a little thing called the million man march. They have also "infiltrated" our military, by the way.</p>

<p>Sounds like you're kind of okay with blacks planning a race war anyway, because they are only "responding to what came previously." I guess you mean slavery.</p>

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<p>hereshoping:</p>

<p>How’s the weather there? Its quite warm here. We’ve had a good amount of rain. So it’s also humid. I do hope you’re having a nice day.</p>

<p>Your friend,
Drosselmeier</p>

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<p>Oh oh. No more "debate" I guess.
Yeah, I agree it is getting too hot in here.
Best Wishes,
HH</p>

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<p>
[quote]
rorosen: I find it sad that the only person you have found to respect is an internet cyberspace stranger

[/quote]
</p>

<p>well I am perfectly able to discover disappointment with cyberspace aquaintances as well,..for instance, in you, who neglect the whole and single out parts for a quarrel. I spent a bit of effort offering you my thoughts and your retort is flat, pugnacious and negative. Sorry, I can't see offering you any peace. You really aren't out to learn anything new.</p>