My name is Fabien and im from Geneva. Im sorry in advance for my english mistakes i hope it’s still understandable. Since i was a child, i always wanted to become an attorney, but especially a criminal defense attorney and i cant give explanations to this. It’s like my passion. But i realized step by step that i wanted to become a criminal defense attorney in the USA. It can sound stupid because there are a lot of lawyers without jobs, but i think that with determination i can succeed. But the thing is that im only 18 years old and i really dont know what to do. Im going to registe rfor the green card lottery to maybe have a chance to win. It will permit me to have colleges for lower prices. But at this stage i really dont know what to do thats why i need help. I always wanted to go to America and study in America, and i will do everything,anything to realize this dream. Thank you in advance for your answers
While I am not a lawyer, the following advice is from an American Lawyer who does international work and was faculty at an American Law School. Since you are from the EU, you can stay in Europe and go to law school (study in English in many programs) and get your bachelors in Law for a couple thousand Euro’s per year. Then you can go to the USA and get a Masters in Law (LLM) from any number of programs. According to my friend this would make you eligible to sit for the bar in either the EU and some states in the USA including California, Georgia, New York, Washington and Wisconsin. You can research it but my
I really dont know where I can found English taught law courses …
The thing is that i really dont know where i can find some law courses taught in english thats the main problem and difficulty here. And i hope that these programs exists in france it will avoid me to change country before going to the USA. So if you guys have some other options, or maybe other explanations i will be glad to read it. thanks in advance for your answers
@collegeineurope : What is your source for the 5 states listed ?
OP: I suspect that the practice as a criminal defense lawyer in the US is quite different than the idealized version imagined by most.
First, a criminal defense lawyer in a state system or in the federal system ?
If you’re in the French system, what’s your moyenne, and if you’re entering Terminale what bac de français grades did you get? If you’re in the IB system, what’s your predicted score and what SL/HLs are you studying?
A reason many students give is the difference between common law and civil (code) law. The former requires fine critical reading while the latter requires memorization- although analysis and application are the same for both. (I’m generalizing because it’d get off topic quickly).
In the US, law school is a “post-graduate” (post college) program. It means you’d need to study law in any European country, and get a degree first. Or you can get a degree in another subject then apply to a US law school. You need to be among the top 10% in your college and take the LSAT + Have considerable volunteer experience.
Some French “licences” include a US component: Cergy, etc. Log onto Parcoursup and search for droit américain or droit anglophone or common law. See what pops up. These programs are super selective so you better be among the best students in your school.
An alternative is to study Liberal Arts either at a Dutch Residential College or at a British university. Look up “liberal arts” on UCAS.
Queen’s Belfast is a good pick because you’d get to study in the us during your 3rd year.
Finally, you can apply to the special “common law + civil code” program at Sherbrooke, in Quebec. You have classes in French and English dealing with the two systems. The degree allows you to pass the bar in New York State.
My source for the US states is from an American lawyer who now is Vice Dean of a law school outside of the USA plus a quick google search. The information is easy to find. In terms of studying law in English in Europe, there are many programs including the Netherlands and Estonia where my children went to University. As an example, my son’s roommate was Austrian but came to the Netherlands to study law because he wanted to study in English rather than German. There are hundreds of bachelors degrees taught in English in continental Europe at a price that is much less than studying in the USA.
I have no idea how you would be passionate about being a criminal defence lawyer in the USA. What do you think that means?
@collegeineurope: I asked because typically the state of Vermont & Washington D.C. are often mentioned in that group.
@MYOS1634 : You wrote above: “The degree allows you to pass the bar in New York State” when referring to a combined “common law & civil code” program of study at Sherbrooke in Quebec.
I think that you meant “to sit for the bar exam in New York State”. If correct, this is very interesting because it suggests that one can bypass the one year LLM degree requirement for foreign lawyers applying to sit for the New York State bar examination. This is a very major development if accurate.
Oops, yes. The students who graduate from that program can sit the bar exam in Quebec, Canada, and NYS.
NYS is overrun with lawyers. There are ambulance chasers on every corner because there are so many lawyers and not enough practices to absorb them. Sitting for the bar does no good if you can’t get a job.
I just read Section 520.6 of the New York State Bar Examiners regarding “Study of law in a foreign country; required legal education”.
Whether or not any course of study qualifies one to sit for the New York State bar examination is a decision made on individual basis by New York State authorities, and not by NYU LLM program or University of Sherbrooke combined program or similiar LLM programs for foreign educated lawyers. The requirements change fairly frequently. Nevertheless, each common law LLM degree program knows , or should know, their success rate at qualifying students to sit for New York bar exam.
Understand, however, that educational requirements are just one of two main parts determining whether one can sit for most bar exams. Most jurisdictions require a thorough background check prior to being allowed to sit for their state bar. Juvenile crimes & bad credit, for example, can prohibit one from being permitted to sit for a state bar exam in most US states.
Another complication may be due to New York State’s recent adoption of the Uniform Bar Exam (UBE). Essentially, one is sitting for about 35 state bar exams at once. Of course, foreign educated lawyers are eligible for admission to only about 7 jurisdictions and not all of these 7 jurisdictions participate in the UBE. It is not clear to me what effect New York’s adoption of the UBE has had or will have with respect to foreign lawyer eligibility.
Canada has both civil law jurisdictions, such as Quebec, and common law jurisdictions, such as Ontario, so combined civil law and common law degrees / programs are common in Quebec & in Ontario. I note this because the primary purpose of Canadian law schools is to educate those who wish to practice law in Canada, not in New York State.
Nevertheless, Toronto & McGill law grads do interview with New York City law firms so there is quite a bit of familiarity with the requirements of the New York State bar for graduates of these law schools.
Hello guys thanks you for your answers.
I want to introduce my grades to let @MYOS1634 judge it. Even if my grades werent that excellent because of personal problems that i dont want to share it, thats my grades
BAC ES
- French : 11/20
- Sciences 13/20
Maths : 8/20 ( just got a medical problem during the exam) - Philosophy : 16/20
- English 20/20
Spanish 20/20
History : 17/20
Sport : 3/20 ( medical problem that werent accepted due to late justification)
SES : 11
TOTAL FRENCH GPA OUT OF 20 : 11,97
I had very tough moments in my high school, harassment etc. Even if its not a justification i wanted to share it. And beside of this, my professor have always noticed that i have very good skills in talking, expressing my self and writing. ( sciences arent for me aha)
As i said, i really want to work in the US as an attorney and i hope that these grades wont block me.
The other path is through a major accounting firm. In most European countries, lawyers and accountants can work in the same office & share profits. Of course, this may not offer any opportunities in criminal defense law, unless, possibly, white collar defense although I think that that would be highly unlikely & most likely cause a serious conflict of interest issue.
In all jurisdictions in the US, save for Washington D.C., such an arrangement would result in multiple state bar rule violations (about 6 to 8 separate charges typically depending upon the jurisdiction).
But you should investigate European offices of major accounting firms to see what is available as a possible career option.
Than you for your answer. I wanted to know if i win the lottery what path should i choose? going directly to college?
Do you know how many lottery winners there are from your country? Are you an immigrant to Switzerland?
That’s a wide array of grades…top 1% and bottom 40%… 
Your best path is likely Sherbrooke because they’ll use your Philosophy, History and English grades. Failing PE isn’t going to matter much although you’ll have to be upfront about it. They may care you didn’t get a mention but it’s likely your best bet. Apply as soon as the app opens.
In the UK, the three grades will help you and the other ones will block you, so you MAY have a shot at Cardiff, Abertay, Queen’s Belfast (reaches, pick 2) and 3 from Canterbury Christchurch, Coventry, Oxford Brookes, DeMonfort, Kingston, Brighton, Anglia Ruskin.
There will be US universities that you can attend for a degree in Philosophy (good preparation for Law school and one of your academic strengths + not oversubscribed anywhere so it increases your odds of admission). You could combine this with a minor in business as it might be more marketable for France. LOTS of good colleges will be interested in a future philosophy major who got a 16 in the French bac, the problem will be costs - you’ll need at least $30,000 each year even with a scholarship.
Then, law school is costly and there are no scholarships. You could always graduate from a us college then go to law school in Quebec (Canada is in dire need of bilingual lawyers, even trilingual if you happen to speak Arabic, Urdu, Wolof…) but it’d make more sense for you to start in Quebec.
Where can i go in Quebec?
As I said there’s a special dual law program at Universite de Sherbrooke.