<p>I have seen many threads on "liberal v. conservative" colleges or universities, but have not found them useful as the picture is distorted by considerations of social/cultural and environmental issues. The great majority of students at the great majority of schools are liberal on social/cultural issues (abortion, gay rights, etc.). Also, to a lesser extent but still to some degree, a fair majority of students on a fair majority of campuses are liberal on environmental issues. So a claim that a school is "liberal" based on positions of students on social/cultural or environmental issues provides no information of value. </p>
<p>Because of the aforementioned concerns, and because foreign policy issues would add more unnecessary complications, I would prefer to limit the consideration to political-economic issues, e.g., policies regarding taxes, corporate power (such as positions on corporate personhood and Citizens United), health care, Medicare, SS, funding of education and the safety net, consumer and worker protections, unions, the minimum wage, and similar issues.</p>
<p>So, a question that I believe would provide interesting and valuable results would be:
Where, on a scale of 1 to 100, would the median (median politically) student stand at a particular school on the political-economic issues, with 1 being extremely conservative (e.g., Ayn Rand) and 100 being extremely liberal or leftist (e.g., Karl Marx)?</p>
<p>Input regarding the position of the faculty (median) would be helpful as well.</p>
<p>My input on schools I am familiar with would be:
UT-Austin: 60
Texas A&M: 20</p>
<p>Does anyone out there have opinions on the students at schools that they are familiar with?</p>
<p>I suppose I should give up on getting input on this topic, yet I am still interested and so I will make one last attempt.</p>
<p>In that effort, I will offer estimates on the positions of the median students at high profile schools, with the hope that someone will correct my flawed impressions. Again, with Ayn Rand = 1, and Karl Marx = 100, my estimates would be as follows:</p>
<p>I think the problem with this discussion is not that it’s political, but that there’s no way to make such an evaluation. First of all, I don’t think all that many college students–even at high-profile schools–have such a well-developed political philosophy that you can divide up issues this way. Indeed, your list really just tracks the general perception of the overall “liberalness” of these schools, except that it’s probably wrong when it assumes (for example) that students at Chicago are significantly more conservative (on any issue) than students at Harvard, for example.</p>
<p>RiversChoice:
Arguments about political issues are a “no no” but discussions of the political attitudes and opinions of college students are perfectly acceptable, from what I understand of the moderator’s comments.</p>
<p>Hunt:
I know that this sort of evaluation is not often made with regard to college students, but my son (who is fully capable of making such evaluations with regard to students in high schools he is familiar with) is going to be applying to schools in a couple of years and we are trying to make a list of colleges and universities that would be worth a visit, taking fit into account. The way the term “liberal” is often used with regard to college campuses has no value in this regard, as schools with high numbers of students aspiring to work on Wall Street are sometimes labeled as “liberal” because of the students’ opinions on gay marriage. So the purpose is to filter out the social/cultural issues as they only provide noise with regard to the desired information.</p>
<p>If that is true about Chicago, that the students are indistinguishable from Harvard students in their views on economic issues, I find that fascinating and surprising. I appreciate input of that nature.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can really do this project, unless you are distinguishing really conservative schools from really liberal ones. You might look at how many kids in fact go on to Wall Street as some kind of indicator. I very much doubt whether kids choose Chicago for undergraduate because it has a reputation for a (somewhat) more conservative faculty on economic matters. Perhaps Wharton at Penn might be different.</p>
<p>I would add that a kid who is (more or less) liberal on social issues, but more conservative on economic issues, will probably not feel uncomfortable at any of the colleges you’ve listed. He might not fit in at Reed, or a couple of other places. In my opinion, the only conservative kids likely to have trouble fitting in at any of those schools are those who are extremely conservative on issues like abortion, gay rights, or evolution. And even they will probably do OK if they are not too combative about it.</p>
<p>Hunt, thanks for the reply. Maybe I should mention that my kid does not fit the common mold and is a probable STEM major who is to the left on economic issues and wants to find a school where most of the other kids are too. We find it difficult to determine a good match as most people appear to equate “liberal” with being liberal on the social/cultural issues and so they provide confusing and unhelpful input.</p>
<p>Probably I should have started off by asking for input on what schools that are strong in STEM subjects have the highest ratio of (kids interested in the peace corps + academia + public service) to (kids interested in Wall Street careers and entrepreneurship). I know that Chicago does have a high percentage of kids interested in academia, but the faculty has such a far right reputation it makes it seem unlikely that most of the kids there could be characterized as “left.” But it could be true. And information with regard to the likelihood of that is the type that I am seeking.</p>
<p>OK, we’ve now segued to my soapbox topic. At 18, students aren’t liberal, conservative, or anything in-between. They’re critical thinkers-in training. (Actually, according to cognitive development theory, most 18-year-olds have yet to reach the critical thinking phase of development.) They don’t need to surround themselves with others who see the world as they do right now, who will only serve to reaffirm their 18-year-old views which are grounded in the limited vantage points that they have known. They need to be exposed to and experience as much of the “different” as they can find. A choice made from a single alternative is no choice at all, and seeking a campus to mirror one’s current sociopolitical stance is in essence, limiting the available alternatives.</p>
<p>BTW, I say that as one whose 50-something year-old political and social views lean decidedly left.</p>
<p>Hm, a capitalist-socialist scale? Interesting. I must say, as one who is liberal on some issues (socialist) and conservative on others (anti-abortion), I have found the “liberal vs. conservative” classification system not helpful at all. Separate social and economic ratings should be interesting.</p>
<p>I am not well-enough acquainted with any large parts of universities to know enough to rate them like this, but I’m interested to see the results.</p>
<p>And didn’t Barack Obama teach at Chicago? He’s pretty much center-left, though he might be the exception. I never really heard anything political about Chicago’s faculty.</p>
<p>
True. If a belief isn’t strong enough to stand up to intelligent debate, then it should be reexamined. Plus, for students interested in activism, what’s the point when everyone else feels the same way?</p>
<p>gadad, we live in Texas, and, though we are in the Austin area, the kids in my son’s high school could fairly be categorized as far right politically. Outside of his immediate family, he has always been surrounded by people on the far right. And since he reads broadly, and I am sure will continue to do so, he has been and will continue to be exposed to ideas from the entire political spectrum. So I am not convinced that he needs to be among kids from the entire US political spectrum throughout his college years. </p>
<p>Also, his mom (my wife) is from a foreign country and he is well aware that a left-of-center university in the US is still to the right, maybe far right, when compared with the rest of the world. So one could argue that an environment providing a full and representative political spectrum of the US does not provide a representative spectrum for the world, and that the spectrum at a left-of-center university may be more representative of the world and thus may provide a better environment for the student to learn how to cope, given that he will live in an increasingly interdependent and interconnected world.</p>
<p>OK, aadad - considering both our kids’ geographic upbringing I guess we can assume that they’ve each had full exposure to a culture of conservatism! - GAdad :)</p>
<p>BillyMc, when my son told me that even though most of the kids at his high school were far right on the political-economic issues, they were liberal on the social/cultural issues, I knew that it would be confusing to label a school as “liberal” based just on the kids’ ideas about the latter.</p>
<p>Well, if you’re looking at a place where most of the students will be left of center, then I think all of the ones on your list will do just fine, with the possible exception of Rice, Duke, and Vanderbilt–which I think are probably also left of center for their regions of the country. As for the “public service” interest, I guess Brown and Berkeley may be ahead of the others, but you will find lots of kids with such interests at all those schools.</p>
<p>Hunt, thanks for the input. Yea, I know about Brown and Berkeley. My son’s cousin (my nephew) graduated from Brown and does not recommend it, as he felt uncomfortable there with the large number of wealthy jet-setting foreign students living the high life (according to him). I had a cousin who graduated from Berkeley back in the day, and I have always had a high opinion of it, but I do not believe it makes much sense for OOS for undergrad. </p>
<p>I suspected as much about Vanderbilt and Duke. I really am not sure about Rice.</p>
<p>I sure hope that you are right about the other schools.</p>
<p>I am not an expert, but I really don’t think your list is at all accurate. </p>
<p>How on earth does someone rate Brown a 60 and Yale a 35 and Columbia a 50? I think I’m familiar with all 3 of those colleges and I really don’t see enough difference in the political views of their students to make such distinctions. And Cornell’s student body substantially more liberal than Yale’s? Not my impression at all. Remember that Cornell has Agriculture majors, hotel school students, etc. and those students tend to be more conservative. </p>
<p>I don’t know how you would accurately measure this, but if I saw these results, I’d conclude that the methodology was terribly flawed.</p>
<p>jonri, I came up with most of those estimates almost randomly to provoke responses from those more knowledgable about such schools. I had some idea about Brown, Berkeley, Michigan, and Vanderbilt, but most of the other estimates were just wild guesses, as I have had difficulty discerning the positions of students on political-economic issues because those issues are so often conflated with social/cultural issues. </p>
<p>Hunt, I think that Duke’s region of the country is somewhere around New Jersey. The campus somehow got plopped down in the middle of NC, but it’s never struck me as particularly southern.</p>
<p>Bay, I am not sure what a “crunchy, granola type” is. My son is one of those kids who wants to contribute to the welfare of the human race, possibly overseas, with no interest in acquiring personal wealth, but who in dress and manner does conform to the tastes of the general public, including corporate types, as a means to a goal.</p>