A very different student

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>I'm 21. My grades in high school were horrible. I did well on the SAT though, if I remember correctly. Anyways I know my grades aren't up to par, but will the admissions people look at my grades from 5 years ago or will they look at what I;ve done since I've graduated?</p>

<p>I started my own company when I was 18, brokering and funding jumbo real estate loans. I funded millions of dollars in loans until I got into rural land development. A partner and I made the company into a real estate development corporation and did very well for a while. My company generated hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue in the the year or so before the real estate crash. This was when I was 19-20. I bought and sold houses and built a $700,000 house to sell. The real estate crash took nearly everything and now I'm forced to sell the various investments of the company for 1/5th what I paid. </p>

<p>As of right now I am daytrading trading index futures, mostly on the nasdaq. The story of my last few years in pretty interesting. So my question, once again, is will admissions look at my crappy high school grades, or will they look at what I've been doing for the last couple years? </p>

<p>In thinking about it, it seems strange that they would look at the grades of someone my age. I understand if you JUST graduated because that's all they have to look at it, but to place high school grades over starting 2 companies and actually making my mark in the real world seems strange. Aren't actual accomplishments much more applicable when considering whether or not I will be successful in the future?</p>

<p>Input is appreciated.</p>

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<p>My guess is they will look at both. But "horrible" grades are going to be tough to overcome unless there are some other phenomenal achievements to point to and a compelling story to tie it all together.</p>

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<p>I thought the grades would be tough to overcome. It's either school or I'm going to start an investment firm with some partners. Honestly in my mind making money and having a degree have nothing to do with each other, but the fact is that I love to learn. I love it. If they put my grades in high school above the fact that I owned and operated 2 profitable real estate companies and now trade futures for a living, I'm not so sure that system is something I want to be a part of. However I was told that colleges aren't as tunnel visioned as I had been led to believe, hence this thread.</p>

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<p>Most colleges are not totally tunnel visioned. I'm sure there are many excellent colleges that will admit you and where you will receive a fine education. However, we are talking Harvard here - among the very top schools in the entire world. They have so many thousands of outstanding applicants clamoring to get in that they can choose from among those that have done very unusual things like start their own successful businesses, have compelling personal stories, AND have top grades and test scores to boot. So to get accepted you will need to convince them why they should take you with your remarkable achievements and lousy grades over someone who has remarkable achievements and great grades. That's not impossible, but it's going to be a challenge.</p>

<p>I suggest you cast your net a lot wider than just Harvard. Look at all manner of colleges. Among the 4000 or so US colleges there are many where you can get in and get a great education.</p>

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<p>I agree with coureur. You're looking at the best university in the world, remember. Be less selective -- and look at schools that are less selective, too.</p>

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<p>Thats true. For some reason I assumed I would be among the only older potential students applying. I don't know why I thought that haha. I will be somewhat less selective...maybe I'll try for the top 10 or so and see what happens. If I don't make it, then I don't make it. I'm choosing the top schools because it really has to be worth my while to stop what I'm doing and go to school. Right now, just going to any school isn't enough for me to quit what I'm doing and focus my attention on something thats not going to make me any money. It sounds greedy I know, and I do love to learn, but thats why I have an endless supply of books and the internet. If I go to school, I want to be up against the best and be taught by the best. Otherwise its just not that appealing to me...if that makes sense. I'm at a pivotal point in my life right now and school has never really been part of the plan, but if I apply to top school and make it then I suppose that will be some kind of sign. I'm just curious what the heck my chances are with my application being so unconventional.</p>

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<p>I somewhat disagree with the above posts. Apply anyway. I think real life application is what matters most. There are students who get great grades but can't apply....then of course there are students who do both. However, you already proved that you can deal with real life problems. I think if you have to write an essay write it on why you chose not to go to college but start two companies instead, and now why you want to go to college. I don't see why you don't stand a chance like everyone else...what do you mean by bad grades?...and what was your SAT?</p>

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<p>GPA was probably 2.5 or lower. All I remember about high school was reading philosophy in the back. Mostly Nietzsche. I don't really read on those subjects anymore, but in HS thats all I wanted to do. Unfortunately there were no philosophy classes haha, so my grades suffered. I honestly remember teachers telling me to put away my books..lol. I really can't remember my SAT score. I remember being happily surprised. I know the scoring system has probably changed since I took it, I would say 1250 at the highest 1150 at the lowest. Sorry, I really just breezed through it and left.</p>

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<p>Top 10 is INSANELY difficult, like Harvard. Remember: you can find the best professors, students, etc at virtually any major university. At any university, you aren't being compared directly against other older applicants: you are vying for a spot against everyone else; I think it will be harder for you to gain admission, even though your situation is unique -- it might actually hurt you more than help you since all college admissions rely so much on test scores, course-load, academic rigor, etc.</p>

<p>Any school at the top will be difficult. Look for great public universities where it is more common for adult students to enter college -- remember there are some AMAZING public universities, too.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Just a note:</p>

<p>I think it would be impossible -- and impractical -- for you to be judged on your high school performance, considering the fact that you are now 21. Obviously you have changed a lot and those grades don't reflect who you are now. This is a very unique situation which I'm sure other applicants have faced -- because it is so unique, I'm not sure it's the best idea to aim so high.</p>

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<p>Harvard definitely likes unconventional. However, last year Harvard received over 27,000 applications. That's 27,000 applicants vying for approximately 1650 slots in the freshman class. Among those 27K there are no doubt hundreds and hundreds of unconventional applicants. You've got to craft an application that will make them take you over the other unconventional people who are applying and over the conventional applicants too. There are no set-aside slots reserved for the unconventional. </p>

<p>And it's not much better in the rest of the top ten. A lot of those have single-digit acceptance rates too.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your insights. I'm definitely out of my normal comfort zone when it comes to applying to school and knowing what the heck they want. I will still apply. However I see now that my chances are the same as if I were to buy a lottery ticket :)</p>

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<p>This is all pretty and that, but will he be able to handle Harvard on an intellective scale? </p>

<p>I mean, obviously, who you were in HS isn't who you are now. But what have you accomplished to prove your intelligence? It is true that it isn't merely the academic that Harvard considers, but the academic is a preliminary factor.</p>

<p>And by good, do you mean 1550-1600 good?</p>

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<p>First of all, you are equating grades with intelligence. Big mistake. However, lets look past that for a minute. It depends on why schools are selective. I always assumed, and this is just simply what I thought without actually doing any research, that schools selected people they thought were most likely to be successful so that when they were asked by others, or profiled by a magazine, or ran for office etc, they could say " I went to Harvard (insert school)" thus increasing that schools prestige and ultimately their bottom line. Successful students= more profit (and prestige) for the school. I could be way off there. But if that is the case then the "intellective" scale you refer to is fairly arbitrary; they look at grades and HS performance simply because that's all they have to look at. They may be more likely to succeed than someone with mediocre grades, but not by much (judging from what I've seen). I will be ( and have been) successful whether I go to school or not. If they can see that, and my reasoning for selectivity above is correct, than why not admit me? </p>

<p>One thing more: I believe this goes to the reason American schools are falling behind in the world. Education isn't a piece of paper you hang on your wall. It's a lifestyle and a never ending pursuit. My peers are all going to college, not for the education, but because they think if they can just get that piece of paper, they may secure a little more money. I want to go to school because I love to learn. I love to be opened up to new ideas and perspectives that I wasn't open to before. I want to be a more rounded person. Being successful has to do with tenacity, hard work, and if your goals are lofty, an almost neurotic ambition. None of those things can be taught. Most of my peers view education as a means to an end. I don't. Education is its own end.</p>

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<h2>^ That's such a pretentious load of bullcrap.</h2>

<p>No, I'm not equating intelligence with grades. Some of the smartest people I know get very (very) poor grades. Ultimately, you are being admitted to a University. It doesn't matter how smart you are if that "intelligence" can't be proven on paper. How do they know you have the drive to go to Harvard and be successful? </p>

<p>I have plenty of problems with the American educational system, but what you're saying makes little sense to me. The American system is one of very few that doesn't specialize early and promotes this idea of well-roundedness and "intellectualism." The European and Asian systems are far more narrow and arbitrary. Much more arbitrary. </p>

<p>I don't believe you'll be admitted. And not because of your age, and I'm sure you're very smart, but reconsider yourself. That up there carries pretense. No one is judging success based on the school you go to, but on this forum you expressed interest in applying to Harvard, and Harvard admits students under certain criteria. There are plenty of smart (dare I say intellective-seeking?) students who still manage good grades, notwithstanding the faultiness of the system. Don't make the system a scapegoat for mediocrity.</p>

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<p>That's such a pretentious load of bullcrap.</p>

<p>Really? We'll see.</p>

<p>*No, I'm not equating intelligence with grades. Some of the smartest people I know get very (very) poor grades. *</p>

<p>It looked as though you were, but that was before you edited your post. Anyways, my mistake.</p>

<p>*Ultimately, you are being admitted to a University. It doesn't matter how smart you are if that "intelligence" can't be proven on paper. *</p>

<p>As I said twice, I understand considering "paper" only, if you just graduated high school, simply because its all they have to look at; however if there are other criterion to consider..hmm...</p>

<p>How do they know you have the drive to go to Harvard and be successful?</p>

<p>Assuming I'm right about the admission process (you didn't tell me was wrong, and my guess is you would have if I had been) then the ultimate goal of admissions is to admit people who are going to be successful in life, thus reflecting well on the university. Would you agree that so far I have showed sign of being successful in life already? At the risk of sounding pretentious, I think you might. Wouldn't it make sense then to consider me seeing as I am already starting to accomplish what you hope for all applicants to accomplish without even having a degree? Surely the admissions experts are smart enough to know that for an 18-20 year old to do what I've done I have to have "drive". If they were even smarter they would know that my current job (trading futures) has a greater than 95% failure rate.I think I covered that, but my main point is if I'm already successful (or on the way) does it make sense to reject me because my grades from 5 years ago imply I may not be successful? The point is if you're looking for success in the real world, and you think I have been/am being successful in the real world, does it make sense to disqualify me because of high school grades?</p>

<p>I have plenty of problems with the American educational system, but what you're saying makes little sense to me. The American system is one of very few that doesn't specialize early and promotes this idea of well-roundedness and "intellectualism." The European and Asian systems are far more narrow and arbitrary. Much more arbitrary.</p>

<p>UNICEF did a study on 23 nations and the math and science education levels. The US finished 18th. However I didn't mean to appear to blame it on the system itself, after all what do I know? What I am familiar with is the attitude with which education is approached by students and teachers. Education is regarded as a means to an end. Period. The vast majority of students are going to school to get that piece of paper that hopefully will secure them a wall paying job. They could care less about actual education. The fact is most are in it for the money. I was too. I didn't go because I knew I could make money without going, so what's the point? I made more money those years than my peers will be making when they do graduate (typically). Why? Because the real instruments for success are hard work, tenacity, and insatiable ambition. Most of my peers could give a damn about those things, all they want is that piece of paper. I've realized in the past years that education isn't a degree or a grade, its a constant state of mind...its the desire to enrich yourself intellectually and THATS what my peers are lacking. So was I until now. If you don't believe me walk down the street and ask random people basic questions. Look at the politicians we've allowed to get elected. They are beyond incompetent (in a bipartisan way). I watched the senate banking committee attempt to berate oil executives when gas prices where high: "Why are you doing this to us" they asked "Why is gas (oil) so expensive"? The senate BANKING committee didn't even know that oil is priced in an open market and has nothing to do with oil companies. I know I went off on a tangent there, but the basic theme remains the same.</p>

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<p>just stick to your trading and forget about even applying into unis</p>

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<p>I think its interesting, if not typical, that you belittle me by telling me to not even apply, yet you provided no rebuttal to my statements above that obviously rubbed you the wrong way. So let me ask you, even though I'm pretty sure you won't reply, why shouldn't I even apply?</p>

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<p>I still believe that a degree is very important, that's the whole reason why you want to go to a TOP 10 school. The professors suck everywhere nowadays, they don't really know how to teach, maybe that's just at GT, lol. I find myself learning more out of class, than in class and I'm sure you have learned more finding your own way than you would have learned going to any college. I doubt college can enlighten you further.</p>

<p>In response to your statement about "money itself is the most disappointing goal you will ever achieve": It is only disappointing if you use it for your own self-interests. You bought a large house, fancy car and dated a superficial whore. If you're so confident in your money-making ability why don't you keep making money and use it to solve world problems instead of spending it on yourself. I don't mean to be philosophical, but I think that the reason why we were born into a world of opportunity here was not by chance but was so we could use our skills to help others around the world who can't even find water, let alone start their own company. You also allude to people who have done great things for humanity, why not use the money to help people out in third-world countries, create some sort of charitable organization. I know that money isn't what buys happiness, but it can certainly buy others the opportunities they need and deserve. Use what you know and apparently your great money-making mindset to earn money to not only sustain yourself but perhaps others in countries that are less fortunate than you. Don't waste your time going to college to learn the life lessons that you obviously have already mastered. Use that time to earn more money the way you know how to pursue your life's goal of helping as many people as you can. I don't know man, I just think that if you go to college you'll waste your time.</p>

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<p>This thread was supposed to be about the original poster's chances to be accepted at Harvard...everyone has gone off topic.</p>