To quote Arnold Schwarzenegger, “Vere dere is smoke, dere is fire.” All I’m saying is that certain colleges attract certain kinds of complaints, and this is the kind of complaint that Vanderbilt (like other Southern Greek-heavy schools) attracts. And the defenses are always the same too. I also note, for the record, that several of the defenders essentially said that OP’s perceptions were accurate, but that she should have known about it before attending. Isn’t that another way of saying “caveat emptor?”</p>
<p>^^^There was exactly one “defender” and I don’t believe it is a Vanderbilt student or a Vanderbilt parent. A lot of posters have opinions about Vanderbilt but they aren’t based on any actual experience.</p>
<p>So, why do the smoke and fire from the negative posters carry so much more weight than the positive stories from experienced students and parents? There are over 6000 undergraduates at Vanderbilt, and each year two or three come onto these boards and describe how miserable they are. I personally know numerous students who defy your stereotypes, but they are waaaay too busy with academics, research, jobs, volunteer service, clubs and just hanging with good friends to spend their precious time on message boards like this.</p>
<p>Some students will not find Vanderbilt to be their cup of tea. I’m read missives from miserable students on the MIT and Univ. of Chicago boards, also. In general, people don’t conclude that the failure of a few students to find happiness on a campus is evidence that there is something awry with the university, or that potential students need to be “warned”.</p>
<p>So sure, students should be careful to look around, get to know a university. But it is equally important to be sure you are making decisions based on reality and not outdated or prejudicial stereotypes.</p>
<p>I also think one might keep in mind what one will do if the intended major does not work out and it becomes necessary to switch both the field of study and the college one is enrolled in. In the case at hand, the student had spent years (by her own account) planning for a violin performance course of study. It must have been disconcerting to have to switch to something completely different, especially given that she is two years younger than most beginning college students. I find it hard to overlook those contributing factors when reading about her difficulties finding satisfaction at VU.</p>
<p>Best of luck to her, and to all young people deciding where to go to college. Be sure to supplement your luck with some research, but remember that smoke and fire are sometimes evidence of camp stoves, not forest fires.</p>
I would just note that the students who are unhappy at MIT or Chicago are most likely unhappy for different reasons than those who are unhappy at Vanderbilt (and from each other). Discerning people will look at those datapoints–especially if they recur. As I mentioned upthread, if you care about the quality of the food at your college, you might want to take notice of the repeated complaints that the food is lousy at Amherst, even though there are always people who respond that it’s not really that bad.</p>
<p>Midmo, I’m not sure if you were deliberately trying to insinuate that I have no commitment to extracurriculars, classes, or friends by spending time on this board, but it certainly came across that way. I’m a bit hurt, to be honest. To address your various students who are so incredibly busy, I will say this: I am taking 18 credit hours, including two science classes; I am a research assistant in one of the Peabody labs, and I work there anywhere from 9-12 hours per week; I have a nighttime job a couple of nights per week from 8 PM-3 AM; I am a member of several volunteer organizations and on the service committees of two other clubs; an active leader (executive board) in three other clubs; and I have an active social life as well. There was no need to get petty, and I’m sorry that you felt the need to do so.</p>
<p>As I’ve said many times, you are free to assert that my perspective is completely inaccurate. That’s fine. It’s my perspective. I included the information about switching schools and my age because I really do want to give an accurate opinion. But remember, it is just that – an opinion. If you have that much of a problem with my post(s), I strongly suggest you speak to a forum moderator instead of continuing to scream at me.</p>
<p>Thank you for your good wishes. I anticipate a lot of happiness at my future college, and I will be out of your (and Vanderbilt’s) hair soon enough.</p>
<p>Frazzled, you are right – the Hillel on campus is very active. However, even it is not immune to Greek politics. The executive board at Hillel is almost exclusively members of GLOs, with the one exception being a guy who ran unopposed for a brand-new position. Hillel <em>is</em> the Center for Jewish Life. The two are essentially indistinguishable in terms of function. The kosher kitchen is also not all it’s cracked up to be. Grins is delicious, but it’s extremely unrealistic to expect to keep strict kosher at Vandy. Not that that’s a concern of mine (my kosher is fairly lax), but numbers don’t tell the whole story. As you say, there’s a difference between acceptance and welcoming. There’s also a difference between diversity on paper and diversity in practice. In my experience, despite the recent influx of a very diverse group of students, they tend to self-segregate a lot. Perhaps in your experience, there has been no shunning for religion, race, or sexuality (although I think it’s a biiiiiiiit of a stretch to say that there’s a “long tradition of gay acceptance” at Vandy). That’s awesome! I’m hoping to find such a positive experience at my next school. For me, there has been a lot of disdain and discrimination.</p>
<p>Again, to all of you who are offended by my posts: I’m very sorry if I have seriously upset you, but I suggest you take it to a mod instead of getting all upset at me.</p>
<p>macaroni, I’m not screaming at you and I did not intend to imply that you are sitting around doing nothing but writing on message boards. What I said was, the students I know who are happy, satisfied and successful in all regards at Vanderbilt are not spending time on message boards. That is because, in general, satisfied people do not go public with their satisfaction. On the other hand, people who are not satisfied, do go public. My point was that the sample found on CC is biased. I’m a scientist, and I try to pay attention to sampling errors. Furthermore, I was making the point to Hunt.</p>
<p>I am sincere when I wish you the best. I do hope that at some point you realize that you have insulted and offended a lot of parents and students with your generalized assertions about Vanderbilt and its student body.</p>
<p>Why on earth would I take anything to a moderator? I shouldn’t be spending so much time debating, or refuting, your posts and Hunts, but that is my choice at the moment. I don’t need a moderator’s interference.</p>
<p>Okay. Sorry for the miscommunication. It felt as though you were trying to take a petty jab at me.</p>
<p>I am sorry for offending whoever I have offended. I feel that my perspective is one that future students might want to take into account, whatever their decisions might be. As I’ve said, Vanderbilt is a fine institution. I have experienced a lot of negativity on this campus that has led me to my decision to transfer. I never wrote with the intention of ticking off parents and students, but merely to express a viewpoint that they probably won’t get from viewbooks and tour guides. You are 100% correct that CC is very biased. You aren’t going to get any students on here going, “Yeah, Vandy’s pretty cool. I dunno.” You’ll get some of the extremely happy students, and a lot of the unhappy students. So it goes on the internet!</p>
<p>Best of luck to those applying to Vandy. :)</p>
<p>I think many took offense due to the tone of your original post as well as the subject title. Kind of made it seem like your intention was to steer prospective students clear of Vanderbilt. Even though that may not have been your intention, that’s how it came across.</p>
<p>midmo is right in that a lot of people come on here speaking badly about Vanderbilt (and other schools) but you have to take that with a grain of salt. generally, only the most satisfied or the most dissatisfied make posts on boards such as this, be it amazon, espn, or any site with a public forum. in addition, when someone logs on to say that it really isn’t that bad or that they themselves haven’t experienced “X” those views are more often than not thrown out in favor of the more scathing post. I think that’s the point midmo was trying to make. </p>
<p>Let me try to make my point in a way that (hopefully) will be less inflammatory. Different schools have different dominant cultures. It seems to me that kids break down into several groups:
Kids for whom the dominant culture is a good fit, and who thrive in it.
Kids for whom the dominant culture is not a good fit, but who find an alternate niche in which they can thrive.
Kids for whom the dominant culture is not a good fit, and don’t (or can’t) find another niche, and are unhappy.</p>
<p>I don’t think the fact that there are kids in group 2 means that any kid in group 3 is a malcontent who is to blame for his or her own problems. I would also say that the larger the school is, the more likely it is that somebody can be in group 2 and find a niche. But it’s also the case that the more dominant the dominant culture is, the harder that might be. Thus (for example) if the Greek scene is not for you, there could be a big difference between a school that is 20% Greek and one that is 50% Greek. If you a minority student, there may be a big difference between a school where your group has 5% representation and one where it’s 1%. This is exacerbated the smaller the school is, too.</p>
<p>Thus, it seems to me, everybody in this thread may be more or less right–and the take-home should be to really do your homework when choosing colleges, and don’t take the school’s propaganda at face value.</p>
<p>A perfect example of a non-apology apology if I ever knew one. </p>
<p>Wow, if Macaroni interpreted the messages in this thread as “screaming” at her, I am no longer mystified with the opinions she has formed from her time at Vanderbilt. The large majority of respondents have been very, very comforting parents who have very clearly tried their best to sympathize with the OP, which has in turn led her to interpret that people are screaming at her. The OP even took it so far as to suggest that since people are so offended, they should bring the issue to a forum moderator. Really? Was that suggestion supposed to be a joke?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Doubtful. Rationalization can be a very powerful tool.</p>
<p>Wow, too many personal attacks going on. Why can’t someone give their opinions and move on without someone having to take personal attacks as a defense?</p>
<p>Wanderers, this was in your first post in this thread:
Perhaps you meant it to be “sympathetic,” but I found it to be pretty condescending. I really don’t care for the piling on. Macaroni tried to backpedal, repeatedly, but you felt the need to keep on coming.</p>
<p>Thanks, though, to all you fine ambassadors for Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>CED, I’m sorry if they come off as personal attacks. They are merely statements about her posts and her thought process, which if you disagree with the validity of my statements, I am very open toward discussing further.</p>
<p>Hunt, I was never sympathetic. Perhaps you misinterpreted that I included myself in the statement about comforting parents. I’m sorry if I lost my desire to be sympathetic when she insinuated I hate Jewish, gay, and black people; am a wealthy student and is overly concerned with outward appearances; hates the arts; and am straight (which I am), white (am not), and rich (am not). Perhaps you support her, but I certainly can’t. Regardless, in reference to the statement you quoted, is it not true? I just did not sugarcoat it. Clearly she has trouble being herself in public, but she would rather have you believe racism and hatred runs rampant on campus. She also wants an environment that will support her and have friends like her so she can be herself in public. These are statements she herself has made. Also, I don’t really consider it backpedaling. She has apologized for possibly offending someone, but doesn’t understand why she may have offended them. Has she apologized for essentially labeling most of the people in this thread everything I listed above?</p>
<p>I have no issues calling a spade a spade, but she has found a way to morph the entire Vanderbilt experience into something she has manifested in her mind. I have issues with people no longer considering Vanderbilt after having read her post and believing that is what the Vanderbilt experience is.</p>
<p>And thank you, Hunt, for maintaining such an objective posture as you collect your negative sound-bites for whatever reason…</p>
<p>I hate to keep this thread going, but you never answered my question: Have you ever been on the Vanderbilt campus? Have you ever tried to supplement your preconceptions with a wee bit of actual experience?</p>
It would seem that the school has certainly made a commitment to this community. Vanderbilt provides support and resources to GLBT students, including a named center and gay-straight alliances at the undergrad level as well as in the grad schools, and sponsors what looks to be a fair number of activities for GLBT students. The radio station has a weekly news and dance show for gay and lesbian students, there are PFLAG and Lambda meetings on campus, etc. </p>
<p>Now, this may not be what you’re looking for, and it may not be enough for you - in which case you’ll look for a different environment at your transfer school. But I believe the university is making a good-faith effort, and spending many university dollars, to create a more gay-friendly attitude on campus via actions that are not undertaken to result in a higher USNews ranking. So I must again take exception to your initial portrayal of Vanderbilt in this thread. You do seem to have softened your attitude in more recent posts.</p>
<p>I hope your transfer applications go well, and that you’re much happier in your new school.</p>
<p>Typical CC community. Take the comment as you like.</p>
<p>Anyway, while I applied to Vanderbilt, and am highly considering attending pending acceptance, I thought you all should know that my mom had the EXACT SAME experience as Macaroni, except she didn’t transfer because she was there on a scholarship. Macaroni is not alone. But, different strokes for different folks.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t you think that the prevailing culture at Vanderbilt has changed since your mother was a student there? The world has changed a great deal in that time, as well. I imagine there were certainly fewer university-sponsored resources for GLBT students in your mom’s time there.</p>