<p>And also: I had put the score recipients to all the schools I am applying, do you know if it is possible to cancel the score report? And are the GLADCHEMMS going to accpet the SSAT of February?</p>
<p>@keisha: Don’t be upset by that score. You rank well above the middle in a group of some very smart kids. I don’t know what schools you have applied to, but some schools you might also consider are Westtown, George School and Emma Willard. The first two are Quaker schools in Pennsylvania and the last is an all-girls school in upstate New York. You might also look at Masters, a coed school near New York City.</p>
<p>Here are some thoughts on lower-end SSAT scores by SevenDad, a well repected poster on the Prep School boards:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1418849-im-going-make-suggestion.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1418849-im-going-make-suggestion.html?</a></p>
<p>She has a reason to be mad. Honestly, if i had a low SSAT score, i would not find comfort in a stranger telling me to look at a different set of schools. I do not know enough about Keisha to say she scored badly, I do not know her grades and how good of a school she goes to. However, a 71% is a gray area for most of the elite boarding schools. Keisha i understand your frustration because the first time i took the test i got below a 70%. I worked really hard during the summer and beginning of fall and was able to raise my score to mid 90’s. Even though you only have until February, you can still raise your score if you study really hard.</p>
<p>@Plank101,
The most selective, well-known schools in the U.S. tend to have a lower percentage of intl students, as compared to the less selective, well-known schools. </p>
<p>Why is that? Because the most selective, well-known schools have ginormous endowments. They do not need to rely on recruiting a lot of full-pay intl kids to fill a budgetary gap. These top schools will be very picky and will limit the number of students from any one particular country to maximize geographic diversity.</p>
<p>For intl applicants with a 72 percentile score, not all 72 percentile scores are created equal. Context matters, as it does for ALL applicants domestic or intl. If you are coming from an over-represented country like China/HK or SKorea, a 72 percentile may be viewed more negatively than if you are from a typically underrepresented country like Nepal. You are competing with your countrymen. </p>
<p>SSAT admit intl<br>
94% 14% 7% Phillips Andover
94% 17% 9% Phillips Exeter
90% 15% 12% Groton School
90% 13% 12% Thacher School
90% 24% 10% Milton Academy
90% 23% 13% Georgetown Prep
90% 24% 10% Milton Academy
89% 18% 16% St. Paul’s School
88% 22% 12% Middlesex School
87% 13% 16% Deerfield Academy
87% 18% 13% Hotchkiss School
85% 26% 14% St. Andrew’s School
85% 19% 15% Choate Rosemary Hall</p>
<p>You may have noticed that A&E seem to have a much lower number of intl students than the rest. Thats because A&E classify Americans living abroad as domestic. This also means that for the other schools, the true number of foreign national students is probably lower.</p>
<p>Do you think a 72 percent is too bad for an international applicant who is going to repeat a year? Like I said, my crystal ball is faulty. But if it is urgent for you to matriculate this fall, then it would be prudent to also apply to a few “more forgiving” schools.</p>
<p>@Plank101,
The most selective, well-known schools in the U.S. tend to have a lower percentage of int’l students, as compared to the less selective, well-known schools. </p>
<p>Why is that? Because the most selective, well-known schools have ginormous endowments. They do not need to rely on recruiting a lot of full-pay int’l kids to fill a budgetary gap. These top schools will be very picky and will limit the number of students from any one particular country to maximize geographic diversity.</p>
<p>For int’l applicants with a 72 percentile score, not all 72 percentile scores are created equal. Context matters, as it does for ALL applicants domestic or int’l. If you are coming from an over-represented country like China/HK or SKorea, a 72 percentile may be viewed more negatively than if you are from a typically underrepresented country like Nepal. You are competing with your countrymen. </p>
<p>SSAT admit intl<br>
94% 14% 7% Phillips Andover
94% 17% 9% Phillips Exeter
90% 15% 12% Groton School
90% 13% 12% Thacher School
90% 24% 10% Milton Academy
90% 23% 13% Georgetown Prep
90% 24% 10% Milton Academy
89% 18% 16% St. Paul’s School
88% 22% 12% Middlesex School
87% 13% 16% Deerfield Academy
87% 18% 13% Hotchkiss School
85% 26% 14% St. Andrew’s School
85% 19% 15% Choate Rosemary Hall</p>
<p>You may have noticed that A&E seem to have a much lower number of int’l students than the rest. That’s because A&E classify Americans living abroad as domestic. This also means that for the other schools, the true number of foreign national students is probably lower.</p>
<p>Do you think a 72 percent is too bad for an international applicant who is going to repeat a year? Like I said, my crystal ball is faulty. But if it is urgent for you to matriculate this fall, then it would be prudent to also apply to a few “more forgiving” schools.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks so much guys! I’ve taken some time to kind of let this all in. I make all A’s, and I’m in 8th grade. However, I don’t think that really matters, because every school is different, and most of us are learning different things. I will definitely take the February test, but I’m not going to apply to anymore schools, because I think if none of the (6) schools I applied to accept me, maybe I should work harder to get to where I think I should be. Of course I’d have to study harder next year, but I’ll have to wait until March. I think the best advice that everyone should receive is that there is always more to a student than just a test score. Although everyone wants to do well, it doesn’t always end up that way, so just keep your head up and who knows what will happen. You always have time to apply next year as well (with more knowledge of the process) if that becomes something you want to look into after March.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, the top schools do admit kids with scores far below the Average. But consider the arithmetic. For a school with an Average of 94 percentile, any low score will have to be offset by one or more high scores to arrive at that 94 number. </p>
<p>If there is a 50 percentile score that is admitted, this is how that score will have to be “smoothed out”:</p>
<p>You need nine 99 percentile scores
50 99 99 99 99
99 99 99 99 99
AVERAGE = 94 </p>
<p>Or, you need forty-four 95 percentile scores
50 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
AVERAGE = 94 </p>
<p>If there is a 70 percentile score that is admitted, this is how that score will have to be “smoothed out”:</p>
<p>You need five 99 percentile scores
70 99 99
99 99 99
AVERAGE = 94 </p>
<p>Or, you need twenty-four 95 percentile scores
70 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
95 95 95 95 95
AVERAGE = 94 </p>
<p>What does this all mean?<br>
It means that at the selective schools the MAJORITY of the admitted kids have a score at or ABOVE the Average. It’s not like one single person with a score of 128 can balance out a 70 score, because the maximum end of the scale is 99. </p>
<p>I’m sorry if this all seems harsh, but fore-warned is fore-armed.</p>
<p>For the numbers above, you also need to consider how many students are accepted by grade. In the case of Andover last year, assuming an 85% yield rate, this is what I very roughly estimate:</p>
<p>Offers of admission
250 fresh
100 soph
20 junior
20 senior</p>
<p>I would assume that the sex-ratio is close to 50:50, so the breakdown by for each sex</p>
<p>Offers of admission
125 fresh girls
50 soph girls
10 junior girls
10 senior girls</p>
<p>125 fresh boys
50 soph boys
10 junior boys
10 senior boys</p>
<p>First - Mr. Gary is right, at Exeter the scores are mostly in the high 90’s (although on rare occasions I suppose they go lower). We’ve had that discussion before. It has been a complaint among alum and donors that the school seems to cherry pick based on scores - but that’s a rant for another day. I’m not sure their philosophy serves them long term and the attitude has at least turned a lot of similarly qualified alumni kids off.</p>
<p>I also know from experience that many other schools - including those ranked at Exeter’s level, don’t put the same weight on scores and tend to look at students more holistically. I have first hand knowledge of several unhooked students who got into competitive boarding schools with stats much lower than 90’s - mostly because not every student can score well on those tests - especially those late to the process who haven’t had endless prep classes.</p>
<p>Also, it’s a one size fits all test. Doesn’t compensate for students who are brilliant but don’t perform well in a one-minute per question boiler room test environment.</p>
<p>So my feeling is - study and practice and do the best you can, then stop worrying about the scores and the stats. The score, in the end, will be the score and there’s nothing an applicant can do other than be interesting and qualified on every other aspect of the paper trail.</p>
<p>GMT is right - a bunch of 99’s will significantly balance out those rare 70’s and make the stats look pristine. Doesn’t mean the kid with a 70 wasn’t qualified, and it would surprise people to know those kids do get offers too (maybe even at Exeter if there’s a god in heaven) But schools don’t post the range. Why? Because the vast majority of students with extremely low scores don’t have a shot because they’re also not academically qualified - so why give false hope and increase their numbers in the pool?</p>
<p>Take it for what it is. GMT is onto something. There are a few outliers, but they’re the exception - at least at Exeter.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, I agree that some kids just don’t test well. But then for kids with unconfident test-taking skills, I would also have to question their readiness to cope in the boiler room academic environments at the most selective schools. These schools are SERIOUSLY INTENSE! Matriculated kids are going to have to take tests at the school too.</p>
<p>Simply getting admitted into an uber-selective school should not be the objective. You have to consider your ability to compete once you get there.</p>
<p>Exie, we have it from a friend at PEA whose scores were in the upper 90’s that there are classmates (preps in '11-12) whose scores were in the 70’s – more than one, apparently. And not day students, either. I don’t know anything about their hooks or other attributes other than that our friend doesn’t seem to think they lack smarts.</p>
<p>GMT and ExieMIT thank you so much, you really calmed me a little bit. I think if I have good grades, good essays, good Ec´s, awsome interview, and I am brazilian going to repeat a year, I think I maybe have some shot. What do you think?</p>
<p>@Planck,</p>
<p>I think your nationality could be a geographic hook, but a selective school isn’t going to let in an unqualified applicant just to add another country to their list. How they determine who’s qualified can seem pretty random sometimes. Like I said before, my crystal ball is faulty.</p>
<p>Then there is the potential for you to have a URM hook. Wealthy, privileged white kids from Mexico and Spain are considered to be Hispanic/Latino by colleges, solely on the basis of Spanish being their mother tongue. But colleges, for some unfathomable reason, don’t consider Portuguese to be Hispanic/Latino, so 1) I don’t know how Brazilians fit in the scheme of things, and 2) I don’t know the prep school view on this.</p>
<p>You have a shot, but so did my S with SSAT scores well above the average and he didn’t get admitted everywhere.</p>
<p>Whatever GMT’s or Exie’s opinion is does not matter. You have not provided enough information for them to tell you. No one sends essays thinking that they are bad, what is good for you might be bad for the next student. Also, even if you have good grades, a boarding school may come to the conclusion that your school is very easy and can use your SSAT scores as support for their thoughts. I am not saying you will not get admitted and i wish the best for you. But giving the little information they have of you, there reply should not make you feel like you have a good or bad shot.</p>
<p>wavyboy, my question to GMT was more focused on the impact of my nationality in my application. However, I understand your point.</p>
<p>And once again thanks to GMT who is helping us a lot!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Remember, there are kids who complete the synonym/analogy section in fifteen minutes, think it’s fun, get an 800 and have no prep other than a passion for literature. These are the kids that you’ll be compared with at schools with high average SSATs. These are the kids who you have to match wits at around the table…quickly. Likewise for the math section.</p>
<p>If you have to work hours and hours for a score that is still below average for your “dream school”, consider that while there may be a few kids with testing issues that have lower scores and get in and do well, that is not the majority.</p>
<p>I don’t know if there are any studies that correlate SSAT and prep school GPA, but they have been done for the SAT and ACT. While SAT scores do not correlate as strongly as high school gpa alone, the best predictor is a combination of both. The ACT has benchmarks for what they call “college readiness,” meaning that if a student scores at such and such level, they have a 75% chance of getting a C or better in an introductory college course. If there is something like that for the SSAT, I’ve never seen it. It wouldn’t surprise me, however, to learn that individual schools have some kind of predictive methodology. </p>
<p>The SSATB is a fairly large organization of admissions professionals from hundreds of schools and provides schools with far more comparative data than the percentiles that come in the student score report. </p>
<p>Schools don’t require SSAT scores because they want to torture kids, but because they obviously provide another metric to use to determine fit. Some schools may downplay the role they play, but they all still require them. They must give them some kind of useful information. When people say that they aren’t that important, I interpret that to mean that they aren’t that important as long as they are high enough. What high enough is, is something that is not always shared because I suspect it is different for different applicants.</p>
<p>Bless you, Google.</p>
<p>Here is a link to an article about validity studies and the SSAT:</p>
<p>[SSATB:</a> Professional Development » Memberanda Newsletter » News](<a href=“http://www.admission.org/professional-development/detail.aspx?pageaction=ViewSinglePublic&LinkID=864&ModuleID=42&StartDate=11/7/2011&&&]SSATB:”>http://www.admission.org/professional-development/detail.aspx?pageaction=ViewSinglePublic&LinkID=864&ModuleID=42&StartDate=11/7/2011&&&)</p>
<p>Some interesting quotes:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Then there is this, about how FA need is the greatest predictor:
</p>
<p>The thing to remember, above all, is that while having those high scores may mean that you’ve got a reasonable chance of being successful, it does not mean you’ll get in!</p>
<p>@neato,</p>
<p>Thanks for the link, and welcome back!</p>
<p>The article is very eye-opening.<br>
</p>
<p>With regards to protecting their market value for touting future high SAT/ACT scores, these prep schools seem to be less forgiving about SSAT scores than their public statements would suggest.</p>
<p>The schools like to give the impression to parents that by enrolling their kids at that school, their kids will end up w high SAT scores in 4 years time. But the report seems to indicate the kids w high SSAT scores are going to be the ones with the high SAT scores, anyway.</p>
<p>FWIW–There is also a rumor–and I stress it is merely that–that Exeter has looked at data and has determined that the three sections are not equally predictive of success at PEA. The rumor is that they have determined that the math section is the best predictor. I do not have this beyond a rumor but I have heard it several times from people who are associated with Exeter but not AOs.</p>
<p>Very interesting etondad. I had heard, I think on these forums, but possible elsewhere, that the opposite was true in most cases; i.e. the verbal and reading sections were greater predictors, because most work in school requires writing and analytical reading (even math, to some degree). But PEA is known for its math program, so perhaps the Math is, for PEA at least, a better predictor of success at that school?</p>
<p>Does anyone have stats on such predictors?</p>