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<p>To me, these statements simply indicate that math ability can be measured more quantitatively and objectively (Does this surprise anyone?) and there is room for further development with proper education. On the other hand, English ability is hard to quantify and more subject to individual teacher’s discretion. How else one can reconcile that SSAT verbal was poor predictor of BS academic performance but then become a good predictor of SAT Critical Reading?</p>
<p>IMHO:
SSAT average 85 or better should be safe, as long as there is not a lot of spread (as in Math very low, verbal very high). Over 85, I don’t think it helps that much. There is not really a statistically significant difference between 93 (the most commonly cited mean) and 99.</p>
<p>But SSAT, and academics alone, is a SMALL part of the application. ECs have much more weight, , for example a champion helmeted sports player doesn’t need to be as concerned about SSAT.</p>
<p>We may be talking about two different ideas. The vocabulary subscore correlates strongly with cognitive ability across different instruments and domains. It does not predict success in an academic or vocational environment per se. I haven’t delved into the studies behind math scores as predictors of success in secondary school, but it may very well be true… Interesting.</p>
<p>SharingGift,
</p>
<p>The boarding school experience lasts longer than one year. I think many students need the first year at boarding school to adjust to boarding school. A student may come in with a high verbal SSAT score, but no idea how to take notes. If you read course lists at different schools, you’ll notice most schools will have some sort of a freshman study skills course. Some students may be really bright, but never had to work very hard, particularly if they come from public schools without gifted programs. </p>
<p>The SAT Critical Reading score is very important for college admissions, and (I gather) nearly impossible to raise. CC has entire forums devoted to the SAT.</p>
<p>There are two different issues for parents to consider, though. Getting in differs from performance. A student whose SSAT is in the lowest 25% of his grade should not count on being at the top of his class upon graduation. Yes, some students do much better than expected, but most do not. They may learn more and work harder at a B S than at their local high school, but that effort may not pay off in class rank. The boarding schools don’t report class rank to colleges, but the colleges can figure out where a student stands by looking at the school profile. </p>
<p>The Greenes recommend the strategy of the “upper one-thirder.” I’ll try to find that post.</p>
<p>Found it! From 2009:</p>
<p>Howard and Matthew Greene, the authors of The Greenes’ Guide to Boarding Schools, recommend that parents and applicants choose schools at which the student will be a “top one-thirder.”</p>
<p>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/675235-what-would-you-choose.html?highlight=greene#post7827099[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/675235-what-would-you-choose.html?highlight=greene#post7827099</a></p>
<p>Still good advice.</p>
<p>Indeed, the one third rule is good advice. The trick is looking into the future and accurately gauging where that might be when you are dealing with limited metrics. You can only parse the tail of the bell curve so far. I would have to say that prospective students should look beyond the academic side when faced with a range of schools and consider in a brutally honest way, whether their personality and work ethic will place them in that top 1/3 or not. For the underchallenged middle schooler, grades and test scores, when at the top, tell nothing about where they would land at a school where all the kids have met that particular benchmark.</p>
<p>My advice, give your child the chance to happy, challenged and successful. Easier said than done! :)</p>
<p>Top 1/3 of class idea - brings confidence and time for ECs and sports</p>
<p>Agree this is hard to estimate, but from 2 years experience at HADES school, I agree it is important to consider.</p>
<p>1) DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the workload, or the intelligence of the students. It is VERY HARD to be top 1/3 at some B S even if you are VERY SMART. My D says “I am tired of sitting around a … table looking at people who are smarter than me and willing to work harder too.” She is no slouch, has perfected time management to the second, and works like the devil (5 hours of homework a day). This brings up issues like, does she have the time for team sports (cuts into study time to some extent)? Is it better to take easier level classes to get a better grade, even though she will learn less? How important is the GPA/ how much to GIVE UP for it?? </p>
<p>2) Fully 2/3 of the class are not in the top 1/3. Not trying to be funny, but the odds are high that your child, even the exceptionally bright, will find themselves NOT in the top 1/3 at some B S, because almost all the students are exceptionally bright. You may see their confidence crumble for a while. Consider this carefully when choosing a B S.</p>
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<p>Very true. I believe Andover does not even grade first-year English and history beyond pass/fail. Thus, the predictive power of SSAT verbal/reading would be thrown out the window at Andover. At least in these classrooms.</p>
<p>Exactly, 2prep. It is very difficult to tell where these uber bright kids will fall at top schools, especially if a kid has never really had real competition. I suppose one could ask some pointed questions of admissions at revisits, but remember that they are trying to get you to enroll at that point. Also, the teen years are just so volatile. I remember a particularly articulate applicant 4 years ago who turned down Exeter because she said that she needed to “win” sometimes and that she felt Exeter would crush her. She still enrolled at a very good top school. Her self reflection was very impressive. </p>
<p>So often, we hear alums say that they dont regret it years after the fact. But why not enjoy it while you are there too? Now, some kids just dont get stressed, even when they probably should! Maybe they are fine. Potential is such a hard thing to quantify because there are simply so many confounding variables.</p>
<p>I haven’t been active on the forum for a while (for a variety of reasons), but wanted to add a few thoughts (which I’m sure I’ve articulated before, probably ad nauseum) on this day when many apps are due:</p>
<ul>
<li>If you get an SSAT score that’s grossly under the average for a school, I would seriously question your readiness/fit/likelihood of admission for that particular school. I don’t care how you rationalize it, bad day, sick, etc. You have to understand that there are hundreds of kids applying for the same slot who kicked butt on ALL SECTIONS of the SSAT, some with little to zero prep. These kids don’t need to use flash cards for a few months/weeks because they simply have built their vocabulary up over time. It’s kids like this with whom you are competing.</li>
</ul>
<p>I still have a hard time grasping how some people put their “apply to” lists together. To put it another way, I would love to take all my vacations at Fairmount/Ritz-Carlton/Aman type resorts, but I know that I simply can’t afford it. Similarly, I think while many kids would love to go to an Exeter/Andover type school, they simply don’t have the academic wherewithal. Can you get in with sub par scores (or grades, or ECs, or whatever you want to put here)? Yes…but you’ve got to have a compelling reason for the AOs to add you to their incoming class.</p>
<ul>
<li>Two app cycles ago, I was told directly by two AOs something to the effect that “We like to see scores in the mid 80s and up/anything from the mid 80s and up and the scores aren’t a limiting factor”. Just two AOs, but both from schools that everyone mentions here. One even said “with scores like that [SevenDaughter1 had 99s across the board], we know she can do the work”. With grossly subpar scores, will you be able to do the work?</li>
</ul>
<hr>
<p>I understand that some families came to the process late in the app cycle, but for the rest of you…the advice to take the SSAT early and shape your apply to list from your results has been out there for years.</p>
<p>A final thought before I get back to my day job: I’m pretty sure that like me, most of the parents who post here are truly interested in helping kids get a fat envelope (or happy email) on M10. If our advice sounds like it’s coming from some other hidden agenda, I assure you it’s not…I’ve seen too many people “go big” and have no choices come M10. The advice I dole out is the same I’d give to my own children.</p>
<p>So, would you guys say a score in very high 70’s just wouldnt cut it/ be a limiting factor?</p>
<p>Sent from my ADR6330VW using CC</p>
<p>This article is about college admissions. However, the discussion on the role of SAT scores in the college admission process could apply to the role of the SSAT in the prep school admission process:</p>
<p>[Steve</a> Cohen on the Three Biggest College Admissions Lies - The Daily Beast](<a href=“Steve Cohen on the Three Biggest College Admissions Lies”>Steve Cohen on the Three Biggest College Admissions Lies)
</p>
<p>This seems consistent with what the arithmetic (post #28) for calculating a prep school’s Average SSAT score is telling me. The majority of the admittees will have a score at or above the Average.</p>
<p>GMTplus7, less than half of Vanderbilt’s applicants supply SAT scores. There’s also a significant difference between the students admitted and the students enrolled. According to Big Future, Vanderbilt admitted 4,078 students, of which 1,601 enrolled. (39%) Vanderbilt admitted 212 from their wait list. I assume some of the 61% of students they lost accepted offers from the Ivy League, Stanford, MIT, Williams, etc.</p>
<p>As an aside, I suspect colleges find it useful to promote an image of incredible selectivity and high SAT scores. [Visualizing</a> the SAT Scandal | Claremont Port Side](<a href=“http://www.claremontportside.com/visualizing-the-sat-scandal/]Visualizing”>Bringing a Positive Change to Your Community)</p>
<p>I’m just trying to keep people with children in 8th grade from panicking about SAT scores. I find Naviance much more useful in researching colleges.</p>
<p>GMT+7, It’s not surprising that, in an asymmetric distribution, the median does not fall in the middle of 25-75 percentile range. In a competitive college like Vandy, of course, the median will be much closer to 75 percentile. In general, the more selective, the more skewed and the narrower the score distribution will be. I’m just not sure where you’re going with this.</p>
<p>So typical applicants should have their SSAT scores to be around school average (or median, which will be higher than average for these schools) for serious consideration, but that doesn’t mean someone with 70-80 percentile SSAT scores should be discouraged from applying. An individual’s talents/merits do not always show up in SSAT scores, and I believe BS are willing to look past the scores to identify such individuals.</p>
<p>@ Sharing Gift,</p>
<p>Where am I going with all of this? </p>
<p>I am going to single out Andover & Exeter, because these 2 schools have the most rabid crowd of candidates. I have no beef w these 2 great schools. I am focusing on them simply because they are the only 2 schools with Average SSAT scores in the mid-90’s.</p>
<p>My conclusion is that for A&E, if your SSAT score isn’t at least in the mid-80’s and you are not a “special interest”, your chances of being admitted are bleak, no matter that you have straight A’s, a great interview, a great essay, and your present teachers love you. A mid-90’s Average SSAT is prettying unforgiving because the maximum possible percentile is 99. Other elite schools with SSAT Averages in the upper 80’s have more cushion to a “smooth out” a low SSAT score. Mathematically, A&E don’t.</p>
<p>A&E may publically say the SSAT is only one piece of the application process and that the SSAT doesn’t matter that much. But the arithmetic tells me they are not forthcoming with the entire truth. The scores may not matter to them if you have an 89 v a 99, but a 79 isn’t going to make the cut for a typical applicant, because it’s simply too hard for the numbers to average 94. </p>
<p>They and other well-meaning posters will tell you don’t worry/ go ahead and apply anyway! But this is how these schools end up rejecting ~8 out of 10 applicants. </p>
<p>I am probably going to get hammered by other posters for my unpopular OPINION-- I repeat again that this is just MY OPINION. Why am I voicing this pessimistic opinion? Because I read too my posts by nice kids who rationalize that they have a realistic shot at getting admitted into A&E in spite of their 78 percentile SSAT score, because they believe that their low-ish score will get “cancelled out” by their straight A’s and nice personalities. These kids are not going to get in with those scores unless they are: recruited athletes, development cases (i.e. parents are going to donate a new dorm building), out-reach cases, musical prodigies, off-spring of high officials of repressive countries. </p>
<p>Your SSAT score does not measure your intelligence nor your worth as an individual. It’s just a test. But prestigious schools guard their stats jealously, and the higher the school’s average score the more the test will count towards admission.</p>
<p>THIS IS MY OPINION.</p>
<p>+1 at GMT’s last post.
Just a quick note to any applicants uneducated on SSAT’s role in the admissions process perusing the thread:
Yes, the SSAT is big, big to the extent where it can make or break your app. BUT an SSAT alone is not enough to get you in. That’s easily confused 
my work here is done.</p>
<p>^^ one other-- Feng at Exeter has a couple of admission gimme’s for off the wall brilliant math folks-- there is a reason that 3 of the 5 USAMO members are Exonians, The humanities faculty (told to me by several of them not even in confidence) are LIVID because these kids are almost functionally illiterate – in English (several haven’t taken an English class before they left the PRC). I am not sure if they have even taken the SSATs-- and if they did aside from the 99 in math, their two other scores cannot be above 20th percentile.</p>
<p>Curious if anyone on this thread has an informed estimate of the SSAT equivalent of ISEE scores of 99,96,96,99? Thanks in advance.</p>
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<p>Yes, I think A&E say, “SSAT is only one piece of the application process,” but, no, I don’t think they say, “SSAT doesn’t matter that much.” They do suggest that if SSAT scores are high enough (without defining how high is high enough), admission decision is most likely determined by other factors. In other words, a low SSAT score can break your app, but a high score alone won’t bring you an admission letter.</p>
<p>Also, you yourself make it clear that your argument would apply to “typical” applicants, say 80-90% of all applicants, but A&E officials cannot ignore 10-20% and over-generalize. IMO, most of these folks are just trying to be open-minded and leave the door open for the applicants who have sub-par SSAT scores but somehow could make meaningful contributions to their schools. What’s wrong with that?</p>
<p>Candidates should understand what the odds really are so they can make a strategic informed decision, i.e. apply to other schools too if the odds look slim to nil</p>