ABET and its importance

College Majors Engineering Majors
21

<p>The vast majoity of engineers in industry will not have PE's. However, the TECHNICAL project managers/leads in certain industries, most likely, will. Of course, the # of technical managers is far, far fewer than the number of people woking under them. A lot of the technical supervisors at GE (aviation, transportation), Lockheed (Aerospace, Avionics), Boeing, Motorola, Medtronic, Siemens have PEs. The PE (along with an advanced engineering degree) will be important if you intend to progress along a purely TECHNICAL career path. </p>

<p>And as was previously mentioned, you cannot call yourself an engineer or market any engineering services in any industry without a PE. Furthermore, you cannot officially approve or sign off on any design plans, even plans you may have designed yourself. You could work in stress analysis at Boeing for 15yrs, and have a PhD, but you couldn't legally call yourself an engineer. One of the engineering managers would have to ok your calculations (as opposed to you being the person giving the ok for others calculations). Furthermore, you'd never be able to market your stress analysis services yourself. I knew an individual in just such a situation. He was a PhD, principle analyst, and owner of a firm offering stress analysis services to various industries. He had to partner up with/hire a PE and list him as the principle investigator so that the firm could legally offer its services.</p>

<p>To those wonering how to get a PE, take the FE (8 hr exam), pass it, work for 4 yrs take PE (another 8 hrs), pass it, get PE license. I just took the FE myself. I actually don't need it or have any future ideas about getting a PE, but it's good to just get that 1st step out of the way just in case.</p>

22

<p>Oooo...8 hours! YIKES! And what is the FE?</p>

<p>I take it that you must have 4 years of work experience to sit for the PE exam?</p>

23

<p>going on distant memory: I believe this is correct, typically.</p>

<p>However, the work experience requirement is reduced somewhat if you have a master's degree. And if you don't have at least a Bachelor's degree in engineering, I believe the work experience requirement is something like ten years.</p>

<p>The first exam is best taken while still in college; it is essentially a survey exam of the various disciplines that you'd typically take to meet sophomore engineering distribution requirements.</p>

<p>The PE exam is more focused on practice, as opposed to theory.</p>

24

<p>FE is Fundamentals of Engineering Exam....many Universites have it as requirement for graduation....dunno whey UCs don't...it's essential if you want to take the PE exam</p>

25

<p>The requirements for engineering licensure vary widely by state. The most typical pathway is:</p>

<p>(1) Enroll in an ABET-accredited engineering BS program;
(2) Pass the 8-hour "Fundamentals of Engineering" (FE) exam as a senior, or soon after graduation;
(3) Get four years of work experience under licensed Professional Engineers (the experience requirement is lower if you have a graduate degree);
(4) Pass the 8-hour "Principles and Practice of Engineering" (PE) exam</p>

<p>This is a simplified and generalized picture. There are often exceptions, loopholes, or supplemental requirements, which vary from state to state.</p>

<p>At many schools, engineering students are required to take (but not necessarily to pass) the FE exam in order to graduate. Examinees commonly take review courses at both the FE and PE levels; such courses may be offered by universities or by private companies.</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
It's not just 'many' private-sector employers. I would actually characterize it as 'almost all', and certainly almost all of the famous, publicly-traded companies that hire engineers. For example, ExxonMobil, Intel, Microsoft, HP, Cisco, Dell, Sun, Oracle, Toyota, General Motors, Sony, Samsung, Apple, Ford, Chevron - all of these companies care very little about accreditation.

[/quote]
These companies are "famous" because they make mass-produced items that are well-known to the average consumer. However, there are also very large engineering companies that design and build "products" like bridges, airports, power plants, and water systems. The average consumer doesn't shop for products like these, so the companies that make them may not be household names. But they still hire lots of engineers. </p>

<p>It is a major hassle to apply for, study for, and pass state licensing exams. Yet every year, tens of thousands of engineers take these tests, so somebody must value them. For context, I found some statistics for engineering credentials awarded in the State of California for the 2003-2004 academic year:</p>

<p>Engineering bachelor’s degrees awarded: 6,754
Engineering master’s degrees awarded: 4,172
Engineering doctoral degrees awarded: 793
NCEES PE exams administered (10/03 & 04/04): 5,242
NCEES PE exams passed: 1,948 </p>

<p>The 5,242 number for total PE exams includes repeat takers, and therefore overestimates the number of PE candidates. Since the pass rates are rather low, there are a large number of repeaters.</p>

<p>In any event, the numbers suggest that a significant percentage of engineering graduates will ultimately become PEs; not a majority, but not a trivial fraction either. The PE appears to be less popular than the MS, but more popular than the PhD.</p>

27

<p>Where could I find more detailed information of the PE and FE test. Also, does anyone know of California's policies for Engineering Licensure? I plan to pursue a Civil Engineering career and am eager to collect all the information I will need in the not to distant future.</p>

28

<p>Is there a such thing as FE or PE "prep courses"? It is disheartening to find that such a small percentage pass the test. Gosh, it is probably due in part to mental fatigue...who else takes an 8 hour exam?!</p>

29

<p>Yes, I believe they offer prep courses.</p>

30

<p>For more info on engineer licensing, check out <a href="http://www.ncees.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.ncees.org&lt;/a> (they make the exams) and <a href="http://www.ppi2pass.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.ppi2pass.com&lt;/a> (they make the study guides). The PPI site has a listing of review courses. </p>

<p>FE exam pass rates are relatively high for graduates or near-graduates of accredited engineering programs, usually around 75%. If you have a good handle on the material in PPI's "FE Review Manual", you will pass. In fact, PPI used to offer a money-back guarantee with this book. </p>

<p>In California, it is relatively easy to qualify for both the FE and PE exams. However, the California Civil PE exam is considered unusually difficult, because California requires supplemental tests on seismic and surveying issues. Info at <a href="http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.dca.ca.gov/pels&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

31

<p>Thank you for the information. It will be put to good use.</p>

32

<p>Great links, thanks Corbett!</p>