ABET Approval for Engineering Programs

Parents Forum
1

<p>There a mini-debate going in the Engineering Majors thread, but I thought parents with experience may have some valuable things to say about this topic.</p>

<p>Lake Jr. may apply to college with hopes of becoming a Civil Engineer or Environmental Engineer. Most literature which I've read on the subject says getting a degree from an ABET approved program is critical for career success. We have many civil [construction, environmental remediation] engineers at my company, however I've yet to see a requirement for an ABET credential in any of our job annoucements. And...I checked the ABET website, only to discover that a handful of schools have ABET approved Environmental Engineering programs. No Michigan, No Harvard, No Georgia Tech, No Cal Tech, No Cal Berkeley, No Purdue etc. Why is this? Is Environmental Engineering in its infancy as an academic discipline?</p>

<p>Also, is a Geology or Earth Science diploma with a minor in Env. Engineering or a smattering of engineering coursework a viable (i.e. marketable) alternative to an Environmental Engineering diploma?</p>

2

<p>I suspect you are correct - that the environmental engineering major is fairly new so ABET is just getting around to evaluating programs. But I’m not sure.
I doubt any hiring manager would look askance at a degree from Berkeley, Harvard, or Georgia Tech becuase it doesn’t have an ABET imprimatur.</p>

<p>However, for a civil engineer ABET may be important because many (or most) civil engineers require Professional Engineering (PE) licensure - far more than any other engineering discipline. Although you can probably get a civil engineering license without attending an ABET accredited curriculum, it may be harder to qualify to take the exam. It depends on your state.</p>

<p>I know there are also Environmental Engineering PEs too, but I’m not sure if they require ABET accreditation, and I’m not sure how important the license is for an EnvEng career. </p>

<p>My BIL majored in Geology and got an MBA and then got a job in the financial industry putting together deals with a “geological” component. There is also such a thing as a Professional Geologist, which I’m sure is in some demand. As an env eng it may be distasteful to some to work in the petroleum industry, but at least you can be the person that makes sure your company watches out for the environment.</p>

3

<p>Possibly. At many schools Environmental Eng is not a major but part of the Civil engineering department.
My nephew majored in Civil engineering with a concentration in Environmental Engineering. He had no trouble finding a job in Environmental engineering.</p>

<p>Rather than the geology/earth science major - I would go towards Civil engineering and concentrate in environmental.</p>

4

<p>Is it harder to find a job if you are a Civil engineer? I was planning to be one or a bioengineer. Does anyone knows what classes to take in order to be an bioengineer?</p>

5

<p>LakeWashington-- I’m in the business, and what’s been said so far is correct. 1st, its absolutely essential for a practicing civil or environmental engineer to become licensed as a PE…yes, its possible to get one’s non-ABET undergrad engineering program blessed by a state examining board (e.g., foreign degree holders must do this, but it is laborious), its a WHOLE HECK OF ALOT easier to go through the licensure process having been educated through an ABET accredited program. Indeed, every discipline of engineering in my environmental consulting business needs a PE to sign & seal drawings & be the “engineer of record” for various designs…civil, environmental, chemical, mechanical, & even electrical.</p>

<p>Without doubt, ABET is important.</p>

<p>Second, on the Civil & Environmental ABET certifications…honestly, I don’t follow specific discipline certs. Back in the day, env eng was known as “sanitary” engineering and was a subset of civil…& many civil programs today are really civil/environmental programs…and I bet many of those are ABET accredited in civil only. There are really far fewer pure, stand-alone environmental programs, such as the Johns Hopkins’ department of geography & environmental engineering. I wouldn’t sweat this too much, and choose a program that has the right curriculum first, making sure its ABET accredited in something. The theory that environmental is newer to the scene is plausible, but practically, it matters not as long as graduates can get their PE eventually.</p>

<p>BTW, when one sits for their EIT (engineer in training) and PE, they can choose any of the specialties (civ, env, mech, etc) to be tested in, or even general engineering (an option probably appealing for graduates from the few schools that don’t specialize like Swarthmore & Harvey Mudd…they are still ABET accredited though)…so its the curriculum that matters, and any ABET accreditation will do.</p>

<p>So, as a hiring manager & recruiter, every engineering program of repute that I’m aware of (& I think I know most in the env world…including Ga Tech & Berkeley - UW too -…I don’t recruit from Harvard, but for the Ivies, I’d put Cornell at the top), all produce graduates from an ABET accredited program…I don’t care about the specific ABET discipline (because I already know of the quality of the program & research in my field), as long as the graduating senior has sat for, and hopefully passed, their EIT spring of their senior year.</p>

<p>

To answer your question…probably slightly less marketable because engineers in general are still harder to find than other science majors…although, having a geology degree myself, I would be partial, but I’d be in the minority. I probably don’t need to say this, but I would not advise any kid to make their choice between engineering or one of the sciences on marketability alone, because there’s some significant differences in what the two fields (science & engineering) do & how they approach life. Geo & civil/env engineering do have much in common though, indeed I practice in that nexus. Although salaries tend to even out over time, engineers do start out at about 20% greater than other scientists in my industry.</p>

6

<p>Papa said it well enough. </p>

<p>If you want a career in Civil or ENVE go to an ABET accredited school.</p>

<p>I’ll just add this for a historical perspective: I graduated from Cal Poly SLO in 1978 with a degree in Environmental Engineering that was ABET accredited. At the time there were only 8 other undergraduate programs in the country that offered an ENVE degree. The Poly program was formed out of the Air Conditioning and Refrigeration curriculum as they found it easier to change the course content than to get a new curriculum through ABET. The first course they offered changed the content of “Air Cleaning” in the AC&R sense to “Air Pollution Control” in an ENVE context. The result of that lineage is that my PE is in mechanical as I had none of the basic civil course work – concrete, roads, bridges, etc – but had loads of thermo and mass-transfer course work. </p>

<p>Since then, the ENVE major has been absorbed into Civil/Environmental but the curriculum has not changed all that much. I guess things move slowly in the ABET world. </p>

<p>I’ve spent the majority of my career in the environmental remediation business and having that strong mechanical engineering background has served me well. I was able to do things my civil co-workers could not; such as waste-to-energy analysis, alternative hazardous waste destruction technology assessment etc. Of course, I was at a loss designing landfill caps but who wants to do that anyway? :)</p>

7

<p>DH is an electrical engineer who does a LOT of government work…and he has his PE. He says…if you plan to take the PE exams, go to an ABET accredited school. BUT that is his opinion. Not all electrical engineers have or need a PE stamp…but for certain work, you absolutely do.</p>

8

<p>Here’s a list of schools with ABET accredited programs in environmental engineering. I think it is more than just a handful of schools.</p>

<p>Accredited ProgramsInstitution OrganizationID OrganizationWebSite
Air Force Institute of Technology ,OH, United States Website link 1 [AFIT.Edu</a> / Welcome](<a href=“http://www.afit.edu%5DAFIT.Edu”>http://www.afit.edu)
University of Arkansas ,AR, United States Website link 5753 [Home</a> | University of Arkansas](<a href=“http://www.uark.edu%5DHome”>http://www.uark.edu)
California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo ,CA, United States Website link 366 [Cal</a> Poly - Welcome to California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, California](<a href=“http://www.calpoly.edu%5DCal”>http://www.calpoly.edu)
University of California, Irvine ,CA, United States Website link 5764 [University</a> of California, Irvine](<a href=“http://www.uci.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.uci.edu)
University of California, Riverside ,CA, United States Website link 513 [UC</a> Riverside: Home](<a href=“http://www.ucr.edu%5DUC”>http://www.ucr.edu)
University of Central Florida ,FL, United States Website link 16 [University</a> of Central Florida](<a href=“http://www.ucf.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.ucf.edu)
University of Cincinnati ,OH, United States Website link 372 [The</a> University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio](<a href=“http://www.uc.edu%5DThe”>http://www.uc.edu)
Clarkson University ,NY, United States Website link 374 [Clarkson</a> University: Personal. Rigorous. Connected. A Place Like No Other.](<a href=“http://www.clarkson.edu%5DClarkson”>http://www.clarkson.edu)
University of Colorado at Boulder ,CO, United States Website link 377 [University</a> of Colorado at Boulder](<a href=“http://www.colorado.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.colorado.edu)
Colorado State University ,CO, United States Website link 376 [Colorado</a> State University - Fort Collins](<a href=“http://www.colostate.edu%5DColorado”>http://www.colostate.edu)
Columbia University ,NY, United States Website link 5 [Columbia</a> University in the City of New York](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu%5DColumbia”>http://www.columbia.edu)
University of Connecticut ,CT, United States Website link 6 [University</a> of Connecticut](<a href=“http://www.uconn.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.uconn.edu)
Cornell University ,NY, United States Website link 8 [Cornell</a> University](<a href=“http://www.cornell.edu%5DCornell”>http://www.cornell.edu)
University of Delaware ,DE, United States Website link 199 [Welcome</a> to the University of Delaware](<a href=“http://www.udel.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.udel.edu)
Drexel University ,PA, United States Website link 9 [Drexel</a> University - Comprehensive, integrated academics enhanced by co-operative education, technology, and research opportunities.](<a href=“http://www.drexel.edu%5DDrexel”>http://www.drexel.edu)
Florida International University (Modesto Maidique Campus) ,FL, United States Website link 14 [Florida</a> International University: Miami’s Public Research University](<a href=“http://www.fiu.edu%5DFlorida”>http://www.fiu.edu)
University of Florida ,FL, United States Website link 13 [University</a> of Florida](<a href=“http://www.ufl.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.ufl.edu)
Gannon University ,PA, United States Website link 382 [Gannon</a> University: Believe in the possibilities](<a href=“http://www.gannon.edu%5DGannon”>http://www.gannon.edu)
Georgia Institute of Technology ,GA, United States Website link 18 [Georgia</a> Institute of Technology](<a href=“http://www.gatech.edu%5DGeorgia”>http://www.gatech.edu)
Humboldt State University ,CA, United States Website link 390 [Humboldt</a> State University](<a href=“http://www.humboldt.edu%5DHumboldt”>http://www.humboldt.edu)
The Johns Hopkins University ,MD, United States Website link 30 [Johns</a> Hopkins University](<a href=“http://www.jhu.edu%5DJohns”>http://www.jhu.edu)
Lehigh University ,PA, United States Website link 32 [Lehigh</a> University:: Home: Home](<a href=“http://www.lehigh.edu%5DLehigh”>http://www.lehigh.edu)
Louisiana State University and A&M College ,LA, United States Website link 397 [Louisiana</a> State University](<a href=“http://www.lsu.edu%5DLouisiana”>http://www.lsu.edu)
Manhattan College ,NY, United States Website link 398 [Welcome</a> to Manhattan College](<a href=“http://www.manhattan.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.manhattan.edu)
University of Massachusetts Amherst ,MA, United States Website link 42 [University</a> of Massachusetts Amherst](<a href=“http://www.umass.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.umass.edu)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology ,MA, United States Website link 41 [MIT[/url</a>]
University of Miami ,FL, United States Website link 44 [url=<a href=“http://www.miami.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.miami.edu]University</a> of Miami](<a href=“http://www.mit.edu%5DMIT%5B/url”>http://www.mit.edu)
Michigan Technological University ,MI, United States Website link 45 [Michigan</a> Technological University | Michigan university with graduate and undergraduate college degrees](<a href=“http://www.mtu.edu%5DMichigan”>http://www.mtu.edu)
Missouri University of Science and Technology ,MO, United States Website link 52 [Missouri</a> University of Science and Technology](<a href=“http://www.mst.edu%5DMissouri”>http://www.mst.edu)
Montana Tech of the University of Montana ,MT, United States Website link 403 [Montana</a> Tech of The University of Montana](<a href=“http://www.mtech.edu%5DMontana”>http://www.mtech.edu)
University of Nevada-Reno ,NV, United States Website link 54 [University</a> of Nevada, Reno](<a href=“http://www.unr.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.unr.edu)
University of New Hampshire ,NH, United States Website link 55 [Home</a> | University of New Hampshire](<a href=“http://www.unh.edu%5DHome”>http://www.unh.edu)
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology ,NM, United States Website link 408 [New</a> Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology: Science Engineering Research University](<a href=“http://www.nmt.edu%5DNew”>http://www.nmt.edu)
State University of New York at Buffalo ,NY, United States Website link 59 [University</a> at Buffalo](<a href=“http://www.buffalo.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.buffalo.edu)
North Carolina State University at Raleigh ,NC, United States Website link 411 [North</a> Carolina State University :: Welcome to North Carolina State University](<a href=“http://www.ncsu.edu%5DNorth”>http://www.ncsu.edu)
Northern Arizona University ,AZ, United States Website link 69 [Northern</a> Arizona University - Home Page](<a href=“http://www.nau.edu%5DNorthern”>http://www.nau.edu)
Northwestern University ,IL, United States Website link 71 <a href=“http://www.nwu.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.nwu.edu</a>
The Ohio State University ,OH, United States Website link 76 [Welcome</a> to Ohio State - The Ohio State University](<a href=“http://www.osu.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.osu.edu)
The University of Oklahoma ,OK, United States Website link 78 [The</a> University of Oklahoma](<a href=“http://www.ou.edu%5DThe”>http://www.ou.edu)
Old Dominion University ,VA, United States Website link 286 [Old</a> Dominion University](<a href=“http://www.odu.edu%5DOld”>http://www.odu.edu)
Oregon State University ,OR, United States Website link 412 [Home</a> page for Oregon State University](<a href=“http://www.oregonstate.edu%5DHome”>http://www.oregonstate.edu)
Pennsylvania State University ,PA, United States Website link 414 [Welcome</a> to Penn State’s Home on the Web](<a href=“http://www.psu.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.psu.edu)
Pennsylvania State University, Harrisburg, The Capital College ,PA, United States Website link 451 [Penn</a> State Harrisburg](<a href=“http://www.hbg.psu.edu%5DPenn”>http://www.hbg.psu.edu)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute ,NY, United States Website link 87 [Rensselaer</a> Polytechnic Institute (RPI) :: Architecture, Business, Engineering, IT, Humanities, Science](<a href=“http://www.rpi.edu%5DRensselaer”>http://www.rpi.edu)
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey ,NJ, United States Website link 91 [Welcome</a> | Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey](<a href=“http://www.rutgers.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.rutgers.edu)
San Diego State University ,CA, United States Website link 95 [Welcome</a> to SDSU](<a href=“http://www.sdsu.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.sdsu.edu)
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology ,SD, United States Website link 103 [South</a> Dakota School of Mines & Technology](<a href=“http://www.sdsmt.edu%5DSouth”>http://www.sdsmt.edu)
University of Southern California ,CA, United States Website link 107 [USC</a> - University of Southern California](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu%5DUSC”>http://www.usc.edu)
Southern Methodist University ,TX, United States Website link 110 [Southern</a> Methodist University - SMU](<a href=“http://www.smu.edu%5DSouthern”>http://www.smu.edu)
Stanford University ,CA, United States Website link 420 [Stanford</a> University](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu%5DStanford”>http://www.stanford.edu)
Stevens Institute of Technology ,NJ, United States Website link 113 <a href=“http://www.stevens.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.stevens.edu</a>
Syracuse University ,NY, United States Website link 115 [Syracuse</a> University](<a href=“http://www.syr.edu%5DSyracuse”>http://www.syr.edu)
Tarleton State University ,TX, United States Website link 978 [Welcome</a> to Tarleton State University - Tarleton State University](<a href=“http://www.tarleton.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.tarleton.edu)
University of Texas at Austin ,TX, United States Website link 125 [The</a> University of Texas at Austin - Web Central](<a href=“http://www.utexas.edu%5DThe”>http://www.utexas.edu)
Texas Tech University ,TX, United States Website link 123 [Texas</a> Tech University System](<a href=“http://www.texastech.edu%5DTexas”>http://www.texastech.edu)
Tufts University ,MA, United States Website link 129 [Tufts</a> University](<a href=“http://www.tufts.edu%5DTufts”>http://www.tufts.edu)
United States Air Force Academy ,CO, United States Website link 134 [United</a> States Air Force Academy - Home](<a href=“http://www.usafa.af.mil%5DUnited”>http://www.usafa.af.mil)
United States Military Academy ,NY, United States Website link 138 [United</a> States Military Academy at West Point](<a href=“http://www.usma.edu%5DUnited”>http://www.usma.edu)
Utah State University ,UT, United States Website link 422 [Welcome</a> to Utah State University](<a href=“http://www.usu.edu%5DWelcome”>http://www.usu.edu)
University of Vermont ,VT, United States Website link 423 [CEMS</a> Home : University of Vermont](<a href=“http://www.uvm.edu/~cems/]CEMS”>http://www.uvm.edu/~cems/)
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University ,VA, United States Website link 144 [Virginia</a> Tech | Invent the Future](<a href=“http://www.vt.edu%5DVirginia”>http://www.vt.edu)
Wilkes University ,PA, United States Website link 156 <a href=“http://www.wilkes.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.wilkes.edu</a>
University of Wisconsin-Platteville ,WI, United States Website link 159 [University</a> of Wisconsin, Platteville](<a href=“http://www.uwplatt.edu%5DUniversity”>http://www.uwplatt.edu)
Worcester Polytechnic Institute ,MA, United States Website link</p>

9

<p>Environmental engineers would still have to take Civil PE for their professional career. If he majors in env engg, make sure he takes some civil engg classes so he’d have less of a learning curve to prep for the exam. Environmental PE isn’t recognized by the state and you can’t use it to approve documents. There has been a turf war going on and everytime environmental engineers try to lobby for their own PE being recognized, the civil engineers, who outnumber env engineers by miles, would kill it with their letters and lobbying power. Honestly, environmental work is best done by chemical or environmental engineers; civil engineers pretend otherwise and make everyone believe that’s their specialty. The policy makers don’t know much but have to listen to the louder voice.</p>

10

<p>Very interesting and very good to know. I think I’ll suggest to Lake Jr. that he attend one of the engineering summer camps for high schoolers to get first-hand impressions like the ones you all described. Thanks to everyone.</p>

11

<p>This thread has been very helpful! My son is a high school sophomore who recently surprised me by changing his career goal from environmental law to environmental engineering. I would appreciate any input or suggestions that might help with the issues I see ahead:</p>

<p>His grades are fairly good (3.2) and his PSAT scores were better, and he’s in the top 25% of a very large, competitive suburban high school here in the Dallas area. While his passion has always been science, his strength has always been in the areas of verbal/comprehension/expression. He’s taking pre-AP and AP English, history etc but regular science and math with A’s and B’s. So he’s not the ideal picture of a pre-engineering student and it’s late in the game.</p>

<p>The environmental engineering programs here in Texas from just a bit of research are at UT Austin, Tarleton, Texas Tech, and UT Arlington. I have concerns about him getting accepted at UT Austin, my alma mater.</p>

<p>I’ve got four years of (public university) tuition & fees pre-paid through the original Texas Tomorrow fund. This means I have to cover out of state tuition, and as a single parent with limited resources I’m not sure how or even if that will work. So when I look at programs like Missouri S&T I’m a little hesitant.</p>

<p>And, not least, he is an interesting package in his own right: high-IQ, Inattentive-type ADHD (much success with medication but some challenges with organization and math processing), and dysgraphia (a form of dyslexia which affects his handwriting and slows down written output, helped by the use of a laptop). All that said, he’s a bright kid who can and does work hard, but I’m trying to understand how difficult a road he has ahead of him, and how I can help guide him to success if this is really what he want to do.</p>

<p>If you’ve read this far, thanks!</p>

12

<p>Papa Chicken’s comment about Sanitary Engineering reminded me that back in the old days, when I was an undergrad at Rutgers and we were playing our neighbor down the road, Princeton, in football, the Princeton band honored the Rutgers Sanitary Engineering program by forming a toilet bowl on the field.</p>

13

<p>According to the Georgia Tech website, they DO have an ABET accredited Environmental degree: [Accreditation</a> and Assessment | School of Civil and Environmental Engineering](<a href=“http://www.ce.gatech.edu/academics/accreditation?phpMyAdmin=NDm1O9X7P8CPZZKqQJVJ5bWxWqd]Accreditation”>http://www.ce.gatech.edu/academics/accreditation?phpMyAdmin=NDm1O9X7P8CPZZKqQJVJ5bWxWqd)</p>

<p>Look under the civil Engineering programs, because it is often a subset rather than a separate department. This is not really a newer degree, as H got one in 1990.</p>

14

<p>Rice U’s department is “Civil and Environmental Engineering” as mentioned above, and is ABET approved. DS was Chem E, then switched junior year to Environmental E. I’m not sure if the diploma will say just CivE or both… He graduates in May and has a job as environmental engineer.</p>

15

<p>I have a D in the engineering college at Cornell. She is interested in biomedical engineering but that is not available as an undergraduate degree area. Normally you would do an undergrad focus area such as chemical and minor in biomedical; It is a graduate program though. She may do an independent major where she can put together a curriculum that will serve her well in this area. She will likely go to grad school. Do you think not having an ABET undergrad degree will hurt her. I think if she does an idependent major, she will not have that certification even though Cornell is ABET certified in their other programs.</p>

16

<p>I can tell you Michigan does not have an Environmental Engineering major. Environmental Engineering is a sub-discipline of Civil Engineering here. Our Civil Engineering program is ABET accredited.</p>

17

<p>Well it’s funny how they select I had a daughter who got in ncsu and one who didn’t. Pretty equal creds.</p>