<p>One of the things I enjoy in reading the threads here is how idealistic so many of the kids are. At 18, I think I would have been writing posts similar to K’s. </p>
<p>Then you get to college. You’ve made it to the top, but there is still this hard to articulate difference between you and the wealthy prep school kids. You prepare endlessly for interviews, their dad’s make a phone call. And then you defy all odds and get a job with the most elite firm. And again, you have the job but are you really part of the club if you’re a woman, and if you didn’t go to Andover, St. Paul’s or Groton? </p>
<p>Life is tricky. Mobility is not straightforward. But at 18, how could you possibly know this?</p>
<p>hmom, true… but I honestly believe that the future success stories won’t be written by those in ‘elite firms’ but by the new creative class. That group of people is judged by merit- their latest idea, their pulse on what’s new- and not by who they know. There will always be an entrenched artistocracy, but the growth will come from the new, forward thinkers- people who can’t be offshored, either. My .02</p>
<p>Agreed. The old silver spoon paradigm is over. Does anyone else sense that the “liberal arts college” and even the ivies are over too? It’s a new frontier now. I wish kids would stop worrying about what prestigious college they can attend to get a leg up, and concentrate more on their own initiative and ability.</p>
<p>Mimi, even in the elite firms, in the end, those that survived were just what you describe. You can get them in the door, but in the end, survival, thriving, those still standing after a few decades, are those who had the ideas. In all fairness, children of the ruling class were in the winning crowd too. But it’s the process in the end, the intelligence and creativity combined with the will to know what success takes, that is not yet understood by the young.</p>
<p>You can paint a big crimson H on your forehead. It will get you in many doors but it won’t lead to success. In an ideal world you have the diploma and the intelligence and ethic to take you where you want to go. But many of the best I learned from attended CUNY and had the intelligence and hunger. </p>
<p>There is no doubt a top school helps. But the talk of top students ‘deserving choice’ belies a naivete about what it takes to get what you want in life.</p>
<p>There may be some sort of new frontier (whatever that means) out there, but the Ivies are hardly “over.” Numbers of kids applying are up across the board, and acceptance rates will drop accordingly. Harvard got more than 30,000 apps this year for the ~1650 slots in their freshman class. Apparently not everyone has gotten the message that the Ivies are over.</p>
<p><<<<One of the things I enjoy in reading the threads here is how idealistic so many of the kids are. At 18, I think I would have been writing posts similar to K’s. </p>
<p>Then you get to college. You’ve made it to the top, but there is still this hard to articulate difference between you and the wealthy prep school kids. You prepare endlessly for interviews, their dad’s make a phone call. And then you defy all odds and get a job with the most elite firm. And again, you have the job but are you really part of the club if you’re a woman, and if you didn’t go to Andover, St. Paul’s or Groton? >>></p>
<p>God I would hope we’re idealistic at 18. I’m glad we’re not bitter and generally unhappy. If you aren’t idealistic when you’re 18, when are you gonna be?
Maybe I am idealistic, but I firmly believe in upward mobility. I’ve seen it happen far too many times to not believe it’s possible for me. It’s going to take everything I’ve got to give, but I’ll find a way</p>
<p>Coureur, you’re correct, especially because it’s become a global applicant pool, the ivies are hotter than ever.</p>
<p>Rocket, I believe it was Mark Twain who said if you’re not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you’re not conservative at 40, you have no head.</p>
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Twain–it would be an odd thing for him to say, since he grew more radical as he got older (which is one reason why he’s one of my heroes). It’s often attributed to Winston Churchill, but I’ve seen that attribution challenged as well.</p>
<p>well then both my parents have no head as they are both extremely liberal. For that matter, my grandfather, grandmother, 2 uncles and 3 aunts have no head…:)</p>
<p>I am not sure what calculator you are using, but either it is or some of your assumptions (on assets, other items) are faulty because I can assure you, those numbers do not correlate to what happens in the real world. I happen to work for a private PK-12 school and serve on the FA committee. We use methodology very similiar to the colleges and I see the actual results of the calculations. EFC increases exponetially once you are above the $75K income level. Someone at $150K is typically full pay at nearly any college except the most generous ivies / privates</p>
<p>You can be full pay at far less than $150K if you have assets. I did the FAFSA first year and just laughed when I saw our EFC. I stopped filling it out after the first time.</p>
<p>While you may find the style of a LAC more of a fit, that does not mean you can’t find a wide variety of LAC’s to choose from. Furthermore, you should be able to find a wide range of tuition / cost options at these colleges. Just because you think a LAC is more of a fit for you does not mean you need to pay a huge tuition (or worse - have someone else subsidize the cost for you)</p>
<p>And even if you can’t find a LAC in a cost range YOU can afford, that doesn’t mean you still can’t get a great education at a CC or public univ. No one is entitled to champagne tastes on a beer budget</p>
<p>Keilexandra - after reading several of your posts - you need to start to learn to live in the real world. I realize that is tough for someone as young as you, but your arguments make no sense.</p>
<p>Let me ask you - how much in taxes have you paid ? How can you as a Canadian citizen take exception with what US colleges dole out in FA?</p>
<p>And if you enjoy the socialist ideal as much as you post here, I am sure Canada would just love to have you back.</p>
<p>Your sense of entitlement for someone who is so young and contributing virtually nothing financially to society really bothers me</p>
<p>Umm speaking form experience reviewing FA apps, you would be surprised at just how many people do live beyond their means and make lifestyle choices and then come crying for a handout to pay for their kid’s education</p>
This sort of thing really infuriates me. Anybody has a right to criticize anything they wish about America or its cultural and social institutions. If you think the criticisms are so ill-founded, then it should be easy to refute them. The knee-jerk response of “if you don’t like it here, go somewhere else” is childish, irrational, and tiresome, as well as being a *non sequitur<a href=“it%20doesn’t%20address%20the%20criticisms%20at%20all”>/i</a>.</p>
<p>Anybody has a right to criticize anyone that criticizes anything they wish about America or its cultural and social institutions.</p>
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<p>It may be easy though time-consuming. Consider a baby. You can tell the baby that it shouldn’t cry but it may take you quite some time to get your message across.</p>
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<p>It can be highly effective though.</p>
<p>Copi’s book contains a lot of material on debating techniques and a lot of the things that are effective, aren’t Kosher.</p>
<p>Well said, nightchef. As I said, I don’t understand the anger on this thread. If private colleges offer need based and/or merit based aid and a student qualifies for it, either because of financial need or superior academic performance or both, why wouldn’t a student apply?</p>
<p>If students prefer an instate public to scurrying for funds, that’s a fine choice and option, too, and I don’t think anyone is saying it isn’t.</p>
<p>There are some students too poor to attend instate publics but who can eke out the funds for CC. For those students we hope the CC in their area is a good one with solid academics that empowers them transfer to a four year institution at the end of two years.</p>
<p>I really don’t see where the argument is.</p>
<p>Those families who spend profligately (according to some posters) will suffer the consequence of having less options for their children. Both merit and need based aid are risky. Not everyone can position him/herself to receive enough aid to enable him to attend his desired college. Cash certainly ENSURES a better outcome.</p>
<p>Depending upon our social and political orientations we will resent either the rich kid whose guidance counselor calls the adcom and a deal is struck and parents pay or the kid whose parents can’t afford to send him who somehow scrapes together a package to be allowed to attend the “dream school” (phrase that has been rightly criticized here.)</p>
<p>Or we can get over ourselves and resent no one and continue with the business of helping ourselves or our kids to the best education we can bring out in a situation that allows for many options and many solutions.</p>
<p>I think what’s happening here in the realm of a student asking for financial aid at an american institution and yet, not being american. The point is, no one is forcing you to use the system (flawed as it might be). That’s why my question remains: Do schools outside the US offer aid to American students who wish to attend there?</p>