Ability to Pay and other trends in admissions

<p>I think that Sungard Data Systems had a system like that - they got bought out by someone else many years ago. It’s a real pain when you look at offers and it feels like the world is against you. It’s actually the use of sophisticated math modeling software that makes it feel like the odds are stacked against you.</p>

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<p>If you’re referring to the special election in Mass. I just find it ironic that the argument is mostly about health care and yet, they already have what the rest of the country was asking for last November. I think it’s also hysterical that anyone assumes a little state like Mass speaks for the rest of the country. Yesterday, Mass spoke for itself. And as usual, this country seems to work on a “I got mine” philosophy.</p>

<p>And really, I am just playing devil’s advocate on that one.</p>

<p>Back to regular programming and I apologize for the diversion. </p>

<p>Our older D received a huge merit scholarship and actually, even as a parent of an athlete who attends a school with no athletic scholarship, I agree that what the school is buying is her leadership in the classroom. A school definitely needs this. And I also agree that $8K a year is not an insignificant amount of money for anyone except maybe the truly wealthy. It’s a nice vacation, a used car on campus, or a host of other things. I think we will also steer our younger D to a few more schools that follow this line of thinking. Plus, she wants a bigger school than her brother so it will make the search a little easier I think.</p>

<p>My only point in bringing up merit aid was to say it wasn’t quite fair that so much disdain seems to be aimed at full-pays when merit aid policies don’t exactly favor the financially needy either.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that a huge amount of the merit aid given really has little to do with merit. Colleges hire enrollment managers to figure out which families need/will be encouraged by a discount to enroll their child. </p>

<p>It’s a lot more complex than giving money to the upper middle class instead of the poor that really need it. The schools that use this practice, and there are many, had no plans to fully fund many poor kids anyway.</p>

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<p>That’s why we have both merit-aid and need-aid. Many colleges are dropping merit-aid and shifting the money to need-aid only.</p>

<p>What many people have a hard time come to terms with is the appearance that “to those who have, more will be given” at the expense of the those who have less.</p>

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<p>I agree with you completely; that was my point upthread. Maybe there’s some weird little bubble of people who believe that only the top 10 or so are worth full-pay, but they are sort of stuck back in the eighties along with floppy bow ties. It’s a big country out there, there are well-to-do people all over (not just in the northeast), and there are more than enough of them who would indeed value the education in most of the top 50 schools enough to be full pay and for them to be able to fill their classes. hmom’s description of how some parents thought seemed to reflect a mindset that anything below top 10 or 20 was sort of second-choice why-bother, and I think that’s a very insular and outdated mindset. Those in the know are aware of the fabulous opportunities at a whole bunch of great schools. Those who aren’t in the know cling to this top-10-or-bust mentality – ironically, chasing “prestige” and not understanding that they are, indeed, the non-prestigious ones if they don’t get that.</p>

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<p>Which are doing this? It seems counter intuitive in this economy.</p>

<p>Caltech for one. Why is this counterintuitive?</p>

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<p>I am not sure I buy your first sentence. I have not seen a big shift away from merit aid and to need based aid. I am sure you could find some examples of both but I don’t see any seismic shift.</p>

<p>As to the last sentence, I have no problem coming to terms with that concept. All you have to do is realize colleges are a business - without some unlimited supply of funds to realize that effective enrollment management does in fact makes judicious use of merit aid. And yes, that merit aid is often going to people who can pay more than those who qualify for need based aid given that the merit aid enhances the colleges net tuition revenue. To me, if you remember the basic fact that the college is a business and needs to generate so much revenue to stay in business, this concept not only makes sense but is also more than fair and reasonable.</p>

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<p>You can use all kinds of capitation methods to ensure that airlines maximize revenues with passengers in adjacent seats paying wildly differing rates. At the root, everyone wants to pay the lowest cost. Absent that ability, people want to pay fair costs. There is a tiny percent of the population that doesn’t care about costs for most things. They want a higher level of service and will pay for it.</p>

<p>In some cases, those that have more will get more. It’s merit.</p>

<p>In other cases, those that have more will be looking for value. It may be their state flagship or an out-of-state flagship offering in-state rates. It may be community college for two years and then a transfer. We can afford full-pay for both of our kids. Older son chose an inexpensive public. I was hoping that he would apply to BC but he wanted an engineering environment. So we will fund his graduate school (we probably would have anyways). Daughter doesn’t know what she wants to do so she will be going to community college next year.</p>

<p>All of those “haves” paying anywhere above costs make it possible for the “have less” group. Yes, I understand that schools have other sources of revenue and historical assets but those can dry up to quite a degree as we’ve seen the past two years.</p>

<p>The participation in the Good Buys thread is huge. We all like a bargain, right? Why is
it so hard to understand that people at various income and asset levels are different?</p>

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<p>15th in population…and they did speak for the country…it was obvious. The majority of Americans do not want big gov. and certainly do not want the current health care bill.</p>

<p>Good grief, geeps, you’re not even aware of what Massachusetts has HAD in terms of health care for the last umpteen years. Anyway, this isn’t the politics forum.</p>

<p>^ just responding to a post…get over it</p>

<p>you mean the last 3 years?</p>

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<p>Why would it be counterintuitive to direct the money to those who are truly the have-nots in this economy? I wouldn’t think that merit-aiding the relatively well-to-do kids you’re trying to attract from elsewhere would result in THAT many ultimate development cases.</p>

<p>hmom5, maybe not counterintuitive for schools where a larger percentage of returning students are now applying for need-based aid. Less need-based aid/more merit aid for incoming freshmen, but more funds overall for need-based.</p>

<p>Nothing “obvious” about it. And it’s actually 13th in population. Had it been NY or California or any state without a state run insurance program for that matter, then I might buy your argument. As it is, this is not the point of the thread.</p>

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<p>The use of discounts as a marketing and sales tool is well established.</p>

<p>But the analogy breaks down with need-based aid unless there is some great amount of social pressure on the company. An example would be the drug companies giving out medications for reduced prices or even for free to those under financial pressure.</p>

<p>This is relatively rare in the business world though.</p>

<p>^ it was very obvious…92% of the Brown voters opposed the current health care bill</p>

<p>I can totally see the reasoning behind getting the kid who otherwise has the money to pay for tuition to accept an offer of admission. It puts a little feather in their cap as incentive to attend. PLUS… there’s always the annual fund for the school to try to get at least some of that money back! :)</p>

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<p>Oh, boosting graduating rates … does that mean offering even more fluff classes? Accepting more questionable credits? Boosting grade inflation? Graduating more quasi illiterates? </p>

<p>Our government and our educators should be MUCH more concerned to boost the graduating rates at the K-12 level all the while trying to elevate the standards to a level where a high school diploma actually means something that has an immediate value for the so many who might never have a fighting chance in the college world. </p>

<p>A horrible K-12 education complete by a few years of fast track remedial college is not exactly what our country needs.</p>

<p>OK, so…</p>

<p>My S (HS soph) will not need any FA for college (we saved like crazy). He can go anywhere he wants (as long as he gets in ;)).</p>

<p>No crystal ball of course, but I expect that he will have around a 2.9 or 3.0 and a 1600 or 1700 SAT (CR/M/W). Assuming we give him a full ride (which has been the plan), will he be more likely to get in someplace decent 2 yrs from now, with those stats, because we can pay?</p>