<p>This short article made me think about posts by Marite in the past that talked about the pros and cons of this model.</p>
<p>"My big problem in Princeton was finding a place to buy a decent cheese. </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>H is a “gadzart” with a master’s and doctorate from a prestigious US university. As the article states, it is difficult to get into the "grandes </p>
<p>One of the things I like about the grandes ecoles is that it is 100% meritocracy. None of this child-of-a-multimillionaire-guaranteed-a-spot-at-Harvard thing you see here. I smiled reading that the daughter of Princess Caroline, who graduated from a prestigious lycee, got a ‘tres bien’ on her bac, and did the preparatory course did not get into Ecole Normale Sup. Didn’t make it past the written exam, in fact. Imagine - a monied royal being turned down… the Ivies are aghast ;)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/01/world/europe/01ecoles.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/01/world/europe/01ecoles.html</a></p>
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<p>Nobody would be more surprised by that comment than people from Lille to Marseilles! </p>
<p>As the article quoted above correctly underscores</p>
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<p>Of course, Michael Young, the British sociologist who wrote the 1958 satire, The Rise of the Meritocracy, might be smiling.</p>
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<p>Well, that is true to a certain extent. Those from more well-to-do, educated backgrounds generally pass on different expectations to their children and can provide more support than others. But my H can from a very uneducated family (Dad quit school at 14 because of the war, Mom had had to quit at 13 to help support family), had none of the travel or cultural opportunities of his better-to-do peers, and lived in a rural area with no transportation, library, cultural resources, TV… However, he was extremely intelligent, a voracious reader, and determined to figure out things by himself because his parents couldn’t help much. Fortunately, they were very supportive.</p>
<p>He got a mention tr</p>
<p>xiggi, when I was at the ENS there were students both from Lille and Marseilles – as well as quite a few students of color. Fact is, if you pass the exam, you’re in. One of the top students in math that year was the son of an African American from Los Angeles who emigrated to Europe, believing his dark skinned children would have a better shot at making it there rather than in Compton, where they lived. His children went to regular French public schools, the older boy chosing to do the prepas and getting into Ecole Normale. One can be very cynical about meritocracy, but there are instances when it exists, and works. This was case in point.</p>
<p>Having passed the Concours to Polytechnique in 1977, I can attest to the fact that few of my “X” classmates came from particularly privileged backgrounds. Far more had parents who were teachers, priests or generally middle class than executives, lawyers or doctors. The number of legacy students was virtually nil. Tuition was free and students even received a stipend. There was simply no way for the wealthy to provide some short cut access for their children: if anything the very regimented and archaic admissions system provides a strong disincentive for all but the most motivated. My two years in the “Ecole Preparatoires” was pure hell and I would never wish my children to experience such a purgatory. Many of my classmates who could afford it have sent their children to college in the US or Britain. </p>
<p>On the other hand, absence of preferences does not make the system meritocratic. Many deserving students failed admission for reasons other than intellectual ability. The Concours system admits students on very narrow grounds: largely mathematics. This is even true for many of the non-engineering Grandes Ecoles. You can trace the likely successful candidates to a small pool who were often identified and groomed by the system since early childhood. If you were not at the top of the class by third grade, no amount of tutoring would ever make a difference. Because of its narrow selection criteria, the system is also inherently biased against women and other individuals who may not have an early love for pure mathematics. It is virtually impossible for foreigners to be admitted because of the very specific training required to pass the various Concours. </p>
<p>It is somewhat ironic that many of the leaders in industry and government in France are actually selected on the basis of how rapidly they could compute a triple integral at the age of 20. At the same time, the country loses most of its most talented scientists who abandon the field of research as soon as they graduate for far more lucrative careers.</p>
<p>Most developed countries have abandoned strict single examinations systems for admission to their most selective institutions and often for good reason. It is simply not a very good way to select the most talented individuals. Einstein actually failed the Swiss equivalent to the French Concours to ETH Zurich and was only admitted the following year because by then he was full resident and the examination was waived. The French system tends to select students with a very narrow range of skills and perspectives and then strips them of any motivation after admission by largely guaranteeing their success. Most others are left to linger in a system where competency has become irrelevant. You can’t board the train after it has left the station.</p>
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<p>How would you handicap the chances at Harvard for an African American from Compton with SAT scores that could be compared to the scores needed to gain acceptance level at a Grande Ecole? What do you think this person would need as his or her SAT to have an incredible chance to be attending a highly selective school in Boston? </p>
<p>This said, I do not really know if dark skinned children have a better chance at making it in Paris than in the United States.</p>
<p>Oh, Katliamom, this might interest you.</p>
<p>The article discusses havens of meritocracy such as Janson-de-Sailly, Stanislas, Amp</p>
<p>xiggi, i’m not going to argue with you. I lived for a year at the ENS. I have kept in touch with several Normaliens and visit the school when I’m in Paris. I am well aware that many come from privileged backgrounds. The anecdote about the African American mathematician was a way to show you that not all of them come from typical French elite families. As to that young man’s odds of making it to Harvard, I don’t know. I do know that the schools those boys attended in Compton were dismal, and that the family could not afford to move to more prosperous areas with better schools. They emigrated to Europe (the father had been with the US army in Europe) because they thought their sons would have greater access to good public education there. Considering that one son is a classical musician and the other a highly respected mathematician from one of the leading mathematics program in Europe proves that it wasn’t a mistake trading Compton for even working class Parisian suburbs. Maybe today Compton and surrounding areas offer the working class or the working poor more opportunities. That wasn’t the case then.</p>
<p>D1 is a “Normalienne”, but in the humanities, which is a different ball-game as it rarely leads to well-paid prestigious jobs other than university professorships (a striking counter-example is former president Georges Pompidou). When l’Ecole Normale was founded, it was to provide France with high school teachers, not world leaders, and the fact that students are paid a salary (not a stipend) throughout their 4 years of study , are morally obliged to take the agr</p>
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<p>I don’t know much about the French system but I would guess the reason would come down to public school funding. In the European country where I reside, and I presume in France as well, all public schools are funded nationally and basically equally per student. Teachers who are certified nationally, after a fairly difficult exam, are sent to where they are needed (their preferences are considered within a point system based mainly on seniority). Therefore, where you live locally is not such a factor in the quality of education, although obviously family culture and socio-economic status will still play a role.</p>
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<p>Katliamom, I think we have two different subjects in the same discussion. One is the value of our public education when compared to other OECD countries, and the other one is the possibilities offered to a very high scoring minority in the United States. </p>
<p>Although France is hardly at the pinnacle of K-12 education in Europe, most (if not all) schools in France will be better than Compton’s.</p>
<p>"Although France is hardly at the pinnacle of K-12 education in Europe, most (if not all) schools in France will be better than Compton’s. "</p>
<p>I am agree (as my students say), but not for long. The latest gouverment cutbacks have finished off the wounded beast.</p>
<p>Don’t worry Lost: it’s not like Compton schools are swimming in money, lol.</p>