Above or Below Decks?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Merchant Marine Academy - Kings Point
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<p>We've had some side comments on USMMA majors and it might be helpful to have some discussion here. Plebes coming in are asked it they want to be "above decks" deckies or below decks engineers. My son loves machine shops, so this was a no brainer for him until he hit differential equations and materials... He is currently at sea on a containership as a third classman (4th Co) until the end of Feb., so I have extra obsessive momtime to play online. </p>

<p>What are you considering (if you are an applicant); what are your thoughts if you are a current MDN or alum; or as a parent, what 2 cents do you have?</p>

<p>It appears there are are more "deckies" with anchors on their jackets than "engineers" with their propellers (and you wondered...)</p>

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<p>So which are the killer courses? Celestial Navigation, Materials, Physics, or Differential Equations? Chime in, folks!</p>

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<p>Basically what is being debated is do you want to take hard classes or harder classes. </p>

<p>I graduated as a Deckie (Marine Transportation, we didn't have logistics then or I probably would have chosen that) and think that I definately had it easier than my engineer classmates. My roomate for three years was a dualie so I got to see both sides. </p>

<p>The pure deck classes that most people would probably consider the most difficult are Navigation or Navigation Law with CAPT Hard. Actually just any class of his, but those two in particular. Celestial actually isn't that bad. Economics also wasn't that fun. I think those are the ones that were my worst that I can remember.</p>

<p>As for the engine side: Differential Equations is one that is heard over and over again. There is also one class that I think you take in the 2nd class year that is a bear, but I can't remember the name of it right now.</p>

<p>Combined the ones that get people are generally the plebe courses: Chemistry, Physics, and Calculus always seem to cause problems for some. Once you get past those courses the general requirements aren't too bad.</p>

<p>Overall if I had to do it over again and be where I am today I would pick Deck again. If I were planning on sailing for a career I would DEFINATELY choose engineering, hands down. I sailed for two years on oil tankers as a Third Mate. I didn't care for the shift work, 4 on/8 off/4on/8 off with 4 hours of overtime thrown in there somewhere everyday of the week, no days off, for 3,4,5 months at a time can be draining. At least I thought so. The engineers on most ships (not including steam ships) are all day workers. They work 7 or 8am until 5 or 6 pm and then they are off. Throw in some overtime and being "on call" one out of three nights and your work is done. Yes if something goes wrong you may have to work long, long hours. </p>

<p>Overall I would pick day work over the 4 on/ 8 off schedule any day of the week. Especially because that schedule is actually more like 8 on / 4 off / 4 on / 8 off. </p>

<p>In Short:
Curriculum: Engineering harder than Deckie
Skills: Engineering = technical / Deckie = business degree
Work: 3rd Mate worse life than 3rd Engineer
Pay: 3rd Mate = 3rd Engineer pretty much everywhere</p>

<p>Just my 2 cents</p>

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<p>cant go harbor pilot as an engineer can you?</p>

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<p>That is some pretty good info KP, first I've read about real work experience. My son is on the engine side. The main reason being his math/science skills. He choose Engineering Systems as his major. Systems looked like the best fit for him due to the exposure to several different types of engineering. He has never shown much interest in mechanics but hopefully will find one area in systems that interests him. </p>

<p>As far as classes he had a great 1st trimester but has told us not to expect as well this time, he says that his classes this trimester are harder. He had more trouble with Fire Fighting and KP100 than anything else. We sat in on his Physics class parents weekend and it was very entertianing, his professor was a hoot, seemed to be a brillant guy and very good with his examples, I almost understood one of them. </p>

<pre><code> KP...you mentioned you sailed for a couple of years, you still sailing or doing something else now?
</code></pre>

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<p>Thanks KP2001....</p>

<p>Your opinions and advice are always welcomed.
My plebe is a deckie too.</p>

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<p>KP - glad you jumped in! That is one of the most cogent explanations I have seen! The skill sets are different between navigation & logistics vs. engineering, as are the classes. I have been concerned that after first semester, it gets harder and harder to change majors, which most college kids do on a regular basis, and as a result, some end up in the "wrong" majors without recourse. How can you switch between above or below deck past plebe year?</p>

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<p>KP - I applaud you for your information. As you're the only Alumni here, we need to pick your brain more than we do. PM, lets copy that to our Deckies! ncDad, we sat in on History of Sleep Power and Chem. What a yawn. I don't know how the kids made it through. I did love the prof. in HSP though. </p>

<p>KP, what were the classes (if any) you enjoyed most? Is there anything enjoyable because I hear a lot of complaining. And do tell ncDad where you are now. I'd LOVE to tell because you blew me away.</p>

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<p>I am more than happy to provide the alumni experience around here, feel free to ask anything. May take me a while to respond, but i'll get back eventually. Hopefully I remember to answer all the above questions here....</p>

<p>taffy: no, as far as I know you can't become a harbor pilot as an engineer. I must say that job looks as though it is simply one of the best in the maritime industry. Great pay, very respected within the community, and get to be home on a very regular basis. It can be high stress though.</p>

<p>NCDAD: I got a C in Firefighting plebe year and still graduated cum laude so tell him not to worry. Did he have Dr. Dumas for Physics??? No, I am no longer sailing, and to make Jamzmom happy I'll out myself again, haha... I'm actually in medical school now.</p>

<p>Weski: you are absolutely correct that it is difficult to change majors at KP. You definately hope to make the "right choice" and I think most people do, but those who don't usually figure it out after their first sailing period. In the past the Academy has been open to allowing midshipmen to change majors; however, this requires a HUGE commitment from the midshipman because he will be required to repeat at least one year.</p>

<p>Jamzmom: I must agree on the Sea Power class. It could be such a great class and yet it is simply a wasted chance. Although it was a nice break due to the minimal work requirement to get through the class. As for the classes I enjoyed the most; hmm, I wish I had my transcript with all my classes so I could remember them all. </p>

<p>I remember enjoying my major specific classes. Especially the first class year classes (probably just because I was close to graduating). The Simulator course senior year is fun, and I enjoyed the ARPA/Radar class 1st class year as well as they were classes in what I would be doing on the bridge of a ship. My electives were enjoyable as I took a weapons class and a warfighting class, one of those we simply played a computer naval battle game all class long. I also enjoyed my Spanish class. Hopefully they still allow this, but in your first class year they will allow you to take Spanish instead of some of your English classes (I highly recommend this as a foreign language is always helpful) </p>

<p>okay, enough with another novel of a post. I should probably get back to studying about what to do with the 53y/o overweight male who has high blood pressure and still eats a steak and french fries every night and doesn't exercise and wants to know why the medicine isn't working. Oh the bane of my existence, haha. And I just thought KP was difficult....</p>

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<p>so you've met my husband! So many good intentions - you're supposed to be studying and I was going to ride my stationary bike...</p>

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<p>KP- I see you've met my husband :) I'm killing him with kindness. I'll send him out for a walk in the morning. Promise. Not only that but I just now found out I sent my kid back to school yesterday with a case of bronchitis. I'm glad there are people like you out there that study us idiots that can't seem to take care of ourselves. I don't allow people in my family to be ill so I had no idea how sick he was. Oh well. He has meds & will be good as new in two hours or so.</p>

<p>From what we were told, they do frown upon changes in majors. Very difficult to change. Mine hasn't had much of a problem as he's always been about Logistics. There is always that inkling of being unsure when they've not been out to experience much yet I would guess. They do still offer the Spanish. Wish they'd offer German as well just for variety... </p>

<p>NCDad - Mine had no interest in figuring out how to put in a new headlamp in his car so I know what you mean. He can cut & thread pipe tho. Hazzards of working in your Dad's company on week-ends. I think thats what drove him to go so far away. Little did he know... He's gonna get dirty up there too!</p>

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<p>LOL!!!! Weski!! I posted before reading yours I swear it! Great minds think alike. I think I like you. LOL</p>

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<p>We'll have to meet up if we pick up our sailor in Charleston!
Hope the cold and flu doesn't ravage KP - espcially when they are all so macho - then they really get sick... took much persuasion to get mine to the doc in the fall until his father pushed and said - you really don't want to be sick at sea (my nagging fell on completely deaf ears). Of course, that is why you will have to pay to have their wisdom teeth taken out this year - required, by the way by KP. Runs $700-1,000.</p>

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<p>Didn't they give the KPers a flu shot? Mine got his a month or so ago.</p>

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<p>Very impressive KP.....</p>

<p>That is the first I have heard about the wisdom teeth. I knew they recommended that they be removed prior to coming in but is this a requirement before going out to sea?</p>

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<p>Bossf51...</p>

<p>Yes, they received their flu shot at KP.... not exactly sure of the date however.</p>

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<p>That's good it gets cold in LI in the winter!</p>

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<p>Yeps. They gave the flu shot right before the exams before the Thanksgiving break. I wondered at the wisdom of giving it right before exams as I feared a few would feel some side effects. Mine hobbled his butt down to offer his blood yesterday (knowing he was sick) just so he could get awarded a three day week-end. I had to laugh at that. He'll sell blood for time away even when he'd been given a medical rack-in. Too funny. They wouldn't take his blood (and he had to know they wouldn't) but the lady signed his papers letting him have the liberty as he had made the effort. </p>

<p>As to the wisdom teeth, I took my kid to the dentist the middle of June for one last cleaning before he went to Indoc. We were advised that the wisdom teeth needed to come out. When reading this forum last year, DocFrance at Airforce, advised not to do it so close to reporting in case there were any problems keeping him from reporting in. Made sense but now what? I guess I should set that up in March & get it over with. Hated to do it over the holidays as he had so many dinners, ect. to go to. I hope Jamz isn't reading this so I can keep it a surprise. ;)</p>

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<p>ncdad: yes, wisdom teeth removal is required, whether they need it or not. Remember signing all those papers where it is specifically not their responsibility? The dentist at the academy does check their teeth, and I guarantee that you will be hearing about it. The surprise is that it doesn't matter if they are impacted or not, they MUST come out before going to sea. It's always something - and we don't have dental insurance, so I shopped around. Signed up with GE Financial supplemental policy through USAA for discounts.</p>

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<p>jamzmom: I highly recommend you call for appt. now as oral surgeons who do this always have a "rush" when colleges get out. As we have such a short window of home opportunities. The good news is that if the teeth are not impacted, it is relatively easy with a couple days of soft food and ibuprophen.</p>