<p>Thumper, you are correct regarding dates of course. I posted that in part to get them both to focus more positively on other offers at this point.</p>
<p>In all my hear I don’t believe GU will change their package significantly enough. FAFSA and private schools “EFC” are very different because they take into account different aspects. For some families the way private schools handle “income” and assets is a benefit, for others schools that utilize FAFSA prove to be econimically better. </p>
<p>From what I have understood, and I don’t have investments with friends or in stocks, so I don’t fully understand how much money she has at hand to spend, but it seems as if GU is looking at the tuition savings (the 81,000) was considered income and that the 300,000 coupled with her house are considered substantial assets.</p>
<p>If she didn’t report the 81,000 as income, which some tax experts would state she should, than FAFSA would clearly work out better for her, and private schools not so much…</p>
<p>She can call and set up a phone meeting after the return from Europe…the OP should not breath a word about Europe to GT even if that was “bartered” in some way. Clearly there are “personal choices” involved with this OP with regard to lifestyle and it is best not to cloud the conversation. The OP figured out a way to get her D through private high school in a cost neutral manner to her and now needs to figure out how to negotiate the college choosing process and what adjustments in lifestyle she is willing to change in this next phase of life. The OP might want to meet with her financial planner also in April to review the next 4 years and what tweeks can be made to her original plan (if she enlisted a financial planner when her H passed) or if has not met with a financial planner to do so now.</p>
<p>It’s ironic because the colleges financial aid process is not so much about what your cash flow is but is inherently about valuing choices that are made long before the kiddos hit the hallowed halls. It is a very humbling process.</p>
<p>MmeZeeZee, yes, I have been told similar stats, but there is no way on God’s green earth that I will have that amount, and I know what I do have will be counted towards my sons’ education, if I filled out financial forms for a private school, not my retirement, and I am 8 years younger than the OP.</p>
<p>There are many middle income parents, like me, who would feel the OP is pretty well off, and that GU would rightly consider “tuition free status savings”, income. I couldn’t afford to volunteer at a private school, because I wouldn’t be able to pay my mortgage, food costs, heating costs etc…so clearly she can afford to “live” on that 32,000, and her daughter is living on that as well.</p>
<p>her retirement plans at this point seem quite do-able…I firmly believe she shouldn’t go into substantial debt though, to afford GU.</p>
<br>
Quick and dirty, using the finaid.org calculator for institutional methodology- this would result in roughly a $20-$21K family contribution.</p>
<p>Doing this math makes me wonder where the $9K estimate from Georgetown ever came from – I’m wondering if there was an oral conversation in which the mom told the school that she had $32K income + $100K in home equity but forgot to mention the $300,000 investments. </p>
<p>(I agree with Xiggi by that way… I wouldn’t count on that $300K being safe when invested with “friends”. There were a lot of people who that that their money was very safe with Bernie Madoff too. The reason people are willing to let their money sit in banks earning 1% interest or less is that the banks are insured.)</p>
<p>How is $300,000 in savings a retirement plan? This, plus the equity in her house, is the entirety of the original poster’s savings. If she dips into the principal to fund her daughter’s college, there will be nothing left to live on, much less retire on.</p>
<p>She has essentially no income other than the interest that is thrown off by the $300K in principal. Again, if she calls in those loans and spends the principal, she will have no income.</p>
<p>Agree with others that she’ll need to get a job once D is off to college. Right now she’s basically unemployed.</p>
<p>The OP reported a $3846 FAFSA EFC. What I don’t understand is where that number came from. Here’s the FAFSA formula (the allowances may be from last year, those should be double-checked):</p>
<p>A. Age of older parent 58
B. Number in family 2
C. Number of children in college 1
D. Parent income $32,000
– parent income from work $0
E. Parent assets $300,000 </p>
<p>Parent FICA $-<br>
Assumed federal tax %: 0.10
Parent federal income tax $0<br>
Assumed state income tax %: 0.07
state income tax $0
Parent income protection allowance $16,230
Employment expense allowance $0</p>
<ol>
<li> Total allowances $16,230 </li>
<li> Available income $15,770 </li>
</ol>
<p>To cptofthehouse: How do you know that? The document I posted came from College Board and is distributed to all Profile schools, as a policy suggestion – why would Georgetown be different from the others?</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about Georgetown’s financial aid practices, though I had heard anecdotally that they are not generous with aid, so was glad when my own d. dropped the idea of applying to SFS. However, I had a friend a number of years back who ran into issues when Georgetown essentially imputed income in self-employment situation using its own formula based on gross receipts, rather than actual income minus business expenses. I won’t get into details because I don’t have personal knowledge – but the point is that from what I know, the school is willing to use an arbitrary internal formula to impute income in some cases – why wouldn’t they do it for assets, when standard practices for both federal and institutional methodology clearly allow them to do so in appropriate cases?</p>
<p>
I don’t know where the $51K figure comes from, but I would have anticipated an EFC of at least $20K with the assets (not the $9K quoted over the phone)… and if it were me, I would have anticipated that the financial aid people might impute additional income based on interest income.</p>
<p>I have always been very careful to mention on the CSS Profile if any interest came from cashing in a savings bond, for example – typically that results in a fairly large lump sum interest payment that is half or more of the cash value of a matured bond. </p>
<p>Now I realize that I am more sophisticated about the financial aid stuff than the OP, so I can understand why she didn’t anticipate that problem … but I don’t think that this is something that doesn’t “make sense”. I think this is a person with significant assets and unearned income … and what doesn’t “make sense” is assuming anything. What doesn’t “make sense” to me is why the d. would have turned down full ride NM offers when she could have kept them on the table until May 1. Both the mom and the daughter knew they didn’t have final financial aid docs in hand. </p>
<p>The only schools my son turned down (in terms of notifying them that he was not accepting their offers) prior to May 1st were those that had already sent a financial aid offer that clearly was insufficient, and which were not top choice schools – once he had already been accepted to colleges that had offered more money.</p>
<p>You are wasting your time to ask that. A school that is giving a purported need-based award will not “honor” anything – they will stick by their formula.</p>
<p>You NEED to get an answer to the question of where they are getting their numbers from the formula:</p>
<ol>
<li> What figure did they use for your income, and how was that derived? </li>
<li> What figure did they use for your assets, and how was that derived?</li>
</ol>
<p>Until you get that information you cannot expect to get any changes in the award, nor can we tell you what to do. Either the numbers going in are mistaken, or not. If they are mistaken, you can address the mistake with whatever documentation you have – if they are not mistaken, you can ask the school to use professional judgment to waive consideration of some income or assets, but to be on solid ground you would want to review the manuals that financial aid professionals work from and become an expert on their standards. Otherwise you waste your time asking for sympathy when you need to give them the sort of <em>facts</em> that fit into specific items on their framework.</p>
<p>
. </p>
<p>The only thing that should be in your letter are the 2 questions above. You could frame that letter in terms of saying that you want to ask for reconsideration, but that you need the answers to those questions to know what to address with them. </p>
<p>The long detailed email you have written is a very bad idea. You are potentially giving information that makes your situation worse, and you are not going to help yourself unless and until you know where the numbers come from. At best you get someone who takes a cursory look at the file, finds some place where they can make an adjustment that improves your award by $1000 or so, and sends it back to you. Then you have had your “review” – and its possible that you may be told after that they only “review” applications once, and your time has come and gone. </p>
<p>You also made the mistake in your email of telling them that whether they give you money or not you will still find a way to send your daughter to Georgetown, which is as good as telling them that you have some resource in reserve you haven’t told them about. Either it is possible for you to pay $51K tuition next year or it is not. Possible doesn’t mean easy. </p>
<p>Quite frankly, I also think you’ve got something in reserve – because it doesn’t make sense that you turned down the National Merit offers under the circumstances and we CC’ers can’t make sense of the numbers you have given. I understand that you are not going to disclose specific, totally accurate details of your finances on an internet board – but the point is that something doesn’t quite make sense on your end. And if you can’t convince us… then how are you going to convince Georgetown?</p>
<p>
Unless your daughter has received likely letters from those schools, you may very well have two rejections at the end of the month. </p>
<p>PLEASE, if you are sincere about your actual financial need, go back to those safety colleges with the generous NM offers and reactivate the files. If possible, do that before you take off to Europe – just make the phone calls first thing Monday morning. Those schools offer the scholarships because they very much want students like your daughter, so right now (before April 1), they may be very happy to reopen her file and reinstate the offer. After April 1, when you get back, it may be too late. </p>
<p>(And if you don’t do this… then it’s really hard for us to give a lot of credence to your hardship story. If you really, truly needed the money, then you would want to preserve that option.)</p>
<p>I don’t think OP’s D applied and then turned down the offers of a full ride NMF opportunity. I think she did not apply to those schools anticipating a decent offer from other schools she would like to attend. My daughter was a NMF and didn’t apply to those schools as they just weren’t good fits. We did however, have a financial safety.</p>
<p>If the OP is running out of options for this upcoming year, she might consider to have her daughter taking a gap year. Her grades and qualifications will still be there, and this could give the OP one year to solve her financial puzzle with clear definitions of cash, retirements assets, and investments. Since financial aid is based on an annual review, only the income of 2011 should matter.</p>
<p>Fwiw, it seems possible to defer at Georgetown:</p>
<p>I suspect the FAFSA came in the way it did because the promisary note values were not included as assets only the disbursements and it was not necessary to ampify the volunteer in exchange for tuition. There are certainly complex family finances here and with other family situations that warrant steering clear of Profile schools if money is a consideration. Anyway, Thumper did a nice summary in post 107 and xiggi is correct, if this blows up in the OP and her D’s face a gap year will give a chance to regroup, reorganize finances and move forward somewhere else.</p>
<p>We can guess all day how GT came up with their numbers. The only way for the OP to know for sure is to go over the calculations with the financial aid officer. If it cannot be resolved this year but looks like next year would indeed result in a low EFC, the gap year should be considered. Otherwise the OP’s D needs to find another option. </p>
<p>I agree that the OP is giving out too much information unless this is stuff that needs to be reported on the financial aid forms.</p>
<p>I agree with Calmom. The more I read the thread, the more it appears that things are not as clear as it appears. In other words, there is some skepticism on this board that you have not put all the cards on the table. If I were you, I also would not. So we do not need to know everything. But this board is friendly to you and if we are asking questions, you have a up hill battle as the FA officer is going to question everything. So you need to have your facts and responses down and ready.</p>
<p>NetNet:</p>
<p>1) Keep your letter short and do not volunteer information.
2) Stick to the facts e.g Your income in 2010 was $-------, your potential income in 2011 will reduce as SS death benefits go away…
3) Focus the questions asked by Camom
4) Request reconsideration and use of professional judgment. Talk to them also</p>
<p>Also, sit down, look at the mirror and make an honest appraisal as how much you can and should afford. No emotion, an honest look at the facts and needs and determine how much loan is advisable, affordable and realistic. The thumb rule is always lower the better, but not all loan is necessarily bad. It does not appear to me that this school will come back with a 100% grant (or 100% grant less federal loans and grants like Stafford, work study etc.). You are going to have come up with at least $10000 to $15000 if not more, based on what you have stated here.</p>
<p>If after that, you decide you need a Plan B, start working on it now, not when the results of review come back. As pointed out earlier, an Ivy may come back and make a great offer and this was a storm in the tea cup. On the other hand they may not. You have to be proactive rather than reactive, even at this stage.</p>
<p>I think most of what needed to be said has been said by the various replies by very knowledgeable and concerned posters. You and your D need to make hard decisions.</p>
That implied to me an actual offer – though I understand what you mean. My son also received much mail about full ride offers (Arizona State, Oklahoma State, UT Houston, etc.) – and we simply ignored those, as he was sure that he wanted to attend a LAC. I’d note that we kept on getting some of that mail after April 1… some of those schools are well aware that there is some mopping up to do after the reach schools send out their notifications. So all may not be lost on the NM front.</p>
<p>But the clear implication of the initial post was that there were actual college apps & acceptance in play. So overall it makes me question how accurate the other info we have been provided is as well. It’s hard to give good advice when someone is holding back info on the other end. </p>
<p>I do understand 100% why people choose not to disclose specific financial details on CC. I would take that approach myself. I’m just saying that it really is difficult for us to make a judgment one way or another about the calculation of the award package and the reasonableness of that offer without knowing more. The OP is really going to have to work directly with the school, and if she feels that she needs better advice, perhaps find someone IRL who works as a financial aid advocate who can help her with negotiations.</p>
<p>My numbers are very simple and quite frankly I’ve revealed more on this board than any sensible person would do. I have $300,000 in inherited assets and I receive a 10% rate of return. In this economy, I know it sounds like I am claiming to have just seen a unicorn. </p>
<p>Because these are inherited assets, they have more of a sense of “movement” to them in that I did not go to the factory every day to earn a few dollars. Before 6 years ago, I had nothing but debts. Now I have no husband but I have $300,000 and compassionate businessmen-friends who locked me into a generous return on loans to them. </p>
<p>Whenever I am in crisis mode, I try to let my “inner zen” take over and I step back as far as I can, to see the bigger picture. Money is energy. It flows. It goes to where it is needed and valued. I cannot convey how high a value I place on my only child, who has been my companion and friend since it’s just been the two of us. While I don’t live through her (well maybe a little) I do live for her and she knows that she is the center of my life and I know that I am the center of her life. When she first steps into college, I intend for it to be the right place, not just the cheapest place.</p>
<p>If I have to spend some of my money, I will do so. I’ll let it flow out and create a college graduate. I experience money as both finite in quantity and infinite in potential. </p>
<p>So… there’s nothing hidden. I don’t have a secret reserve. It’s just that I may be a little more willing and able to use my funds because I have the safety net of these investments. That having been said, I’d like to arrive at a reasonable figure that is not thirteen times my EFC as calculated by FAFSA. </p>
<p>Everyone’s been really helpful here. I’d anticipated a sort of ebbing of compassion around the hundredth post, and assumed that I’d see some “well she has so much money, what isn’t she telling us, she wants it all” feedback and so I wasn’t surprised when the posts got a little critical. Many of you have more enviable home lives than I do; probably all of us are struggling in some area of our life. It’s all about choices. </p>
<p>This university typically accepts only one applicant every year from my state. I just want it to be my daughter.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the entire thread yet, but the general advice is an undergraduate should never take out more than $25,000 in undergraduate student loan debt for a Bachelor’s degree and even $25,000 is a scary number. I’m in $9,900 in debt right now and senior year I’ll probably take out another $5,500 because they are not giving me CAL Grant due to me having Sophomore Status before my first day of college and National SMART Grant is being cut at the end of Spring 2011. If you anticipate taking out more than $25,000 for your undergraduate student loan, then explore community college options.</p>
<p>You have empathy from me, Fairfielder, as I have known others in your situation. I wonder if the private high school could prepare some kind of the document stating that your daughter received 20,000/year scholarship money from them, and your volunteer work for them was just that…volunteer work.</p>
<p>Hi Fairfielder. My first husband died 12 years ago, leaving me to raise four children alone. The oldest was 13 at the time.</p>
<p>This year child #4 is applying to colleges. I also have put myself through both college and graduate school during that time. It has been quite a ride. </p>
<p>Setting aside the details of your actual question, I feel in my heart that you are reacting out of (understandable) fear. You have had the greatest loss and the inheritance is the one thing that you have (other than your daughter, of course) that remains of your security.</p>
<p>And also, because your daughter has also experienced a terrible loss, you want her to have the best college experience.</p>
<p>I really do understand.</p>
<p>Somehow you need to sort out your own financial realities and determine exactly how you are going to spend your money AND spend the rest of your life. </p>
<p>vballmom, I am getting the same EFC you get. The FM (used for federal aid) is > 15,000. The original amount GU quoted must have been based on parent info that was not yet reviewed by the financial aid staff. But a $32000 AGI with 0 income from work and no assets will yield an EFC around 2750 or so. So … if the parent considered herself a displaced homemaker/dislocated worker, the $300,000 in assets would have been ignored at that AGI and the lower EFC would have been generated from FAFSA.</p>
<p>kelsmom I thought perhaps she could be considered a displaced homemaker as well, but wasn’t sure what the exact rules were. Regardless, the FAFSA EFC reported by the OP ($3846) seems very low relative to the $15K we’ve calculated, and higher than it should be if she were a displaced homemaker. Her daughter’s assets only add $340 to the total. </p>
<p>The discrepancy between the calculated EFC and the college’s most recent financial aid award is difficult to understand.</p>