Hi, my daughter has dual US-Canada citizenship and attend intermediate and high school outside of USA and Canada. She is interested in studying engineering or economics major starting in Sep’2020. we would like to compare engineering/ economic program in Canada universities vs USA universities.
U of Toronto, U of British Columbia and McGill: pay domestic fees and assume no scholarship at all. UToronto total expense 27K US$, UBC ~20K us$, McGill ~27k
Top 20-30s us universities based on US News ranking: though she is usa citizen, need to pay OOS tuition/fee due to parent’s residential status. if apply for private university, EFC is around 20-30K US$.
we can’t afford full cost in private university or full OOS at public university. can only afford family support about 20K/year.
My question if she is admitted to a private university ranking 20-30s or 10-30s LAC luckily and pay EFC plus student loan around 25-30K, should she attend Canada or US university for academic perspective? Long term, she might work in USA as more job opportunity.
As we are looking for prospective USA university or LAC for application, appreciate your advice.
Thanks.
In the US, student loans without a cosigner are limited to $5,500 first year, so $25-30k per year student loans would not be realistic (and would not be a good idea).
Those universities in Canada are well respected, so there is no reason to avoid them.
She should apply for University of Waterloo engineering as well. Many engineering students are placed in coops in the US. The average coop earnings over the course of an engineering degree are around $84K.
I think the OP has stated that the family can directly support $20 thousand of a potential $25-30 expense annually. If this is the case, then large loans would not be needed. Nor would it seem, based on the figures in the original post, that U.S. colleges would cost appreciably more than Canadian universities.
U of Toronto ranks in the top 20 internationally, which is higher than many T-20 American colleges, while UBC and McGill rank internationally alongside T-30 colleges in the USA. So there really is no actual reason to pay a lot more money to send your kids to colleges in the USA which are the same level or lower than those that you have in Canada, AND a lot more expensive. BTW, many universities have higher tuition for international students. I’m not sure whether that only means non citizens, or any student whose permanent address on the application is not in the USA.
All three Canadian universities have good name recognition in the USA.
The only reason to go to a college in the USA is if it offers a major or program that doesn’t exist in any of the Canadian universities, or if your kid wants to go to a LAC. There are a few in Canada, but, and unlike those three Canadian Universities, the Canadian Liberal Arts Colleges are not known in the USA.
I don’t want my daughter to have too much loan, so total maximum expense from family and student loan is expected to be around 25k and hope the rest will be grants (I think only private univ /LAC and UVA / UNC potentially offer this need-based grant). Want to compare if worth to apply for top 20-30 us universities or LAC based on the same expense as top Canada univ. In my search, OOS and international student pay about the same on tuition and fee in public university.
I don’t think she can’t get into Ivies, so target would be top 20-30 universities and top 10s LAC. Thanks.
The top Canadian unis are well-ranked but also huge relatively underfunded sink-or-swim publics. I think of Toronto/McGill/UBC as less well-funded versions of UMich/UW-Madison/UW-Seattle. Completely different from a LAC experience.
Waterloo CS’s alum list is as impressive as any top American CS school, however.
If your daughter was born outside Canada and has not lived there for more than 3 months she would qualify for the Quebec tuition rate at McGill, currently about US$3000/year tuition.
Admission to top US universities is holistic so having top stats does not guarantee admission. Admission to Canadian universities is based largely or exclusively on stats.
Also the EFC calculators at US universities may not be reliable especially if your earnings include money not from wages and salaries or you have a lot of assets.
Top10 LACs will be considerably harder to get into than UT/UBC/McGill (where high stats are the only variable).
Since you’re considering these Canadian universities, consider US Academic equivalents (roughly, using USNWR only: top 15 public universities + top 25 LACs+ top 50 national universities; I’d include top 20 public universities and top 40 LACs, especially those strong in economics.)
Note that if you make less than 95k with typical assets, UMixhigan also “meets need” in addition to UNC and UVA.
There are many reasons to choose a US university:
close-knit community & Residential life
small, interactive classes (v. Lectures), especially at LACs and honors colleges
career services, career fairs, internships, alumni networks
So, applying to all three types of universities would make sense. Once you have results, your daughter can choose based on affordability/value and fit.
Though many of the top privates in the US give a big advantage to those who apply during ED. But you would have to pay what their fin aid office says you should pay.
Agree that in the RD round, the top 30 US unis (assuming OOS for the publics) and top 10 LACs will be much tougher to get in to than the top Canadian unis (except for Waterloo CS).
That depends. Some schools do not give aid to international students but they DO give aid to OOS students. For example…
From UNC-CH
From UVA
And from University of Michigan
So…these three publics are the only ones that meet full need for citizens. So OOS students have the potential to receive need based aid and their costs will be lower than the full cost of attendance. International students will receive NO aid at these schools so their costs to attend will most definitely be higher than for OOS applicants who at least will be eligible for the Direct Loan, and would receive grants and scholarships possibly as well.
UVA and UNC meet full need for OOS accepted students…so they definitely would be paying less than needy international students. UMich is working towards meeting full need. But even there…it’s very very likely that a U.S. OOS student will receive some grant money to attend if need is demonstrated.
International students at UVA, Michigan, and UNC CH guaranteed will be full pay.
I think @PurpleTitan hit the nail on the head. Canadian top unis are impressive and similar in preparation for top opportunities as top flagship state universities in the United States. However, they will be much more sink-or-swim and underfunded (student life is a much, much lower priority). If your family decides to go Canadian, be sure your daughter specifies that she is a U.S. Citizen on her resumes, to avoid people assuming she is not authorized to work in the United States (US salaries are significantly higher than Canada, for the most part).