Academic rivalry between Bama and Auburn?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
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<p>Dad, </p>

<p>I understand your perspective, but please see ours too. You did state several things, perhaps because you felt outnumbered, or attacked, that were just not true. I don’t think you knew you were spreading misinformation, but you did, so you have to expect a response from those of us who love UA and want to help others learn more about it. I don’t have a problem with you posting here, as long as you keep it accurate, and respectful. </p>

<p>Perhaps we are a bit oversensitive, but UA has been the victim of misinformation for years from AU people. For example, many AU people I know like to insinuate that AU is more selective, without offering objective proof, or appreciating the different demographics, number of applicants, yield rates, etc. Hopefully even worse tactics, like warnings about mythical higher crime rates in Tuscaloosa, with racist overtones, have been set aside by the AU people. Because UA bears the state’s name, it has had a more negative rep than AU. Not bearing the state’s name has shielded AU to some degree from that rep. </p>

<p>I think it would be fair to say that some AU people feel the same about us when UA people refer to AU as “The barn”, or the “cow college”, as if it did not have a great science and engineering program. The difference I guess, from my perspective, is that people who don’t really understand what steps UA has taken to improve itself, are not the best judges of UA. </p>

<p>Anyone who steps on UA’s campus can see for themselves that great strides have been made in advancing UA, so perhaps we should not be too sensitive. But inaccurate statements, combined with preexisting stereotypes about Alabama, could prevent impressionable students and parents from even considering UA. </p>

<p>If you felt attacked, I apologize, but try to understand that some of what you wrote did come off as rude, and much of it was simply inaccurate. </p>

<p>I have said before, this kind of rivalry is what happens when you have two proud institutions in a relatively poor state.</p>

122

<p>Atlant68</p>

<pre><code> When I started the post I had no intention of discussing UA enrollment growth. You made a statement that UA would not reach 35,000 till 2020 as that is the goal date. I was bringing up that they probable would reach that goal before then. You are very aware that UA most recent goal was 28,000 and that they reach that goal years ahead of schedule. You also stated that the increase would be mainly grad student growth. I just pointed out how I could see a large portion of that growth happening sooner.
I think I have a reasonable knowledge of UA master plan. At no point did I say that UA was not building any new residence halls, dining facilities or rec center. I stated there were no new academic buildings planned with the enrollment expansion. They are planning to renovate some of the current buildings. The engineering and science complex has been planned for a long time, as you know. My understanding is that there has not been any major changes regarding size or layout of those buildings since the concept was originally done and that when the complex was original conceived, the enrollment goal was 28,000.
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<p>If my statements are wrong than provide proof and I will concede. In an article on the Tuscaloosanews.com dated Nov.4 about the new enrollment goal, Dr. Whitt states they can reach their new enrollment goals without having to construct any new academic buildings.
I am not making any concerted effort to make UA look bad. You and mom2collegekids have made statements in response to things I posted. When I have disagreed with those statements, I have tried to provide facts as to why I disagree.
I think parents and students should have as much information as possible when making the decision where to go to college, especially when a major scholarship is involved. As to the increased enrollment with UA, for a student entering this Fall, I just think you should plan on the student population increasing while there. That since they completed their most recent enrollment goal early and that they exceeded it, it may happen this time. As long as you have no problems with that and the possible headaches that could come with it, then it is not an issue. My original post that started this conversation was to have people aware of the different sizes in departmental honors classes between the two schools and for them to look at the UHP classes to see how much use they would get out of them when comparing the two honors colleges. For my daughter, the size of the departmental honors classes is more important. The next person may feel they will get a lot of use out of the UHP classes. For them their size and course offering may be more important when comparing the two honors college.</p>

123

<p>I have not weighed in on this topic but since it is still ongoing and Dad’s focus seems to be more on enrollment and infrastructure, I will politely lead Dad to to UA’s master plan:
[Campus</a> Master Plan Update](<a href=“http://www.uafacilities.ua.edu/planning/pages/cmp-update.htm]Campus”>http://www.uafacilities.ua.edu/planning/pages/cmp-update.htm)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.uafacilities.ua.edu/planning/pages/master-plan/campus-master-plan-5-07-1.pdf[/url]”>http://www.uafacilities.ua.edu/planning/pages/master-plan/campus-master-plan-5-07-1.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>UA’s plan which is currently being updated is extremely comprehensive as compared to AU’s plan:
[Auburn</a> University - Master Campus Plan](<a href=“http://www.auburn.edu/administration/campus_planning/campus_planning/campus_planning_master_plan.htm]Auburn”>http://www.auburn.edu/administration/campus_planning/campus_planning/campus_planning_master_plan.htm)</p>

<p>I believe that you just need to read the plans and check the facts to see which university has more to offer.</p>

<p>Roll Tide!!!</p>

124

<p>Dad, </p>

<p>For the LASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSt time, you are still spreading misinformation. Geez. How many times do I have to mention specific new plans? For example, the UA Board just recently approved the remodeling and major expansion of the old Nursing Bldg, to provide more classroom space. That is a major NEW development,not part of the Master Plan. The construction of the North Bluff Res. Hall is a NEW developlment, that was not part of the Master Plan. They are building a new digital media center, again, not part of Master Plan. They are building a new, though smaller rec center, not to replace, but to supplement. Again, a NEW development, not part of the Master Plan. I am not going to waste my time hunting down links to prove these facts, but feel free to google, or go to UA’s facilities pages. </p>

<p>To put it mildly, you still don’t know what you are talking about. I tried to be polite.</p>

125

<p>Robot, </p>

<p>Unfortunately, Dad wants to see something “NEW”. The developments I cited in my last post are not part of that master plan, cause they are part of the response to the 30,000 enrollment just achieved. Dr. Witt has also talked about how they will have to raise standards even higher. The quotes are out there.</p>

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<p>Atlanta68: another case of Dad’s not checking facts:
Dr. Robert E. Witt
President, The University of Alabama</p>

<p>not Dr. Whitt</p>

127

<p>Dad, why don’t you go on the auburn board and speak your piece. Your misinformation about UA is apparent and is not welcome here. </p>

<p>Go on the auburn board and write your novels there. I’m sure all three people interested in your school will be thrilled. </p>

<p>You’re like the out of town guest that pops in to spend the night and then tries to move in. We’ve been hospitable but it’s now time to say SCRAM.</p>

128

<p>mom2collegekids</p>

<pre><code> I agree with you that it is probably best that each forum deal strictly with their school and not make comparison statements about another.

Whenever you or atlanta68 have shown me were I have made an incorrect statement, I have conceded the point or fixed the statement I was making. I am not trying to make inaccurate statements. Maybe in some cases the issue is that we are looking at things differently. When I say there are no new academic building being planned for the new enrollment goal. You think I am being inaccurate as they will be shortly building the 4th building in the engineering & science complex. I am looking at it from a statement Dr. Whitt made in Nov. when the announcing the new enrollment goal that, no new academic building would be built. I have always stated they would be renovating buildings.
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129

<p>Oh good you decided to stay. Maybe now you can tell everyone here about the following:</p>

<p>auburn’s hearings with SACS over their accreditation. You know about those issues don’t you? You realize if you lose accreditation your degree won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on. </p>

<p>auburn faculty members accusations of pressure and grade changing from administrators. </p>

<p>The fact auburn graduated 100% of it’s white football players but only 48% of it’s black players. (BTW, that last figure is amongst the worst 5 in the entire country)</p>

<p>The fact that two and possibly more auburn BOT members are or soon will be under indictment for the Colonial Bank collapse and the ongoing gambling bribery probe. </p>

<p>And last but not least. Maybe you can finally answer my question in regards to the huge disparity in the numbers of african american students between two otherwise similar in-state public universities. And how those numbers may affect the test scores that auburn loves to tout.</p>

130

<p>Dad, </p>

<p>Bottom line: UA is changing its plans along the way, to meet the demand! And one can get a lot more available classroom space with some renovations, as was done with Loyd Hall. You might want to look at how AU is going to handle the deteriorating Haley Center, before worrying about UA’s infrastructure. How in the world is AU going to handle that one! But I do know that had AU not had a surprising jump in enrollment last fall, that it would have been in the RED.</p>

131

<p>You don’t seem to understand that when schools can remodel/renovate older buildings because new ones have been built (like nursing, some of the older science buildings, etc.), those remodels allow for the accomodation of more students. An old lab in an older building can probably be remodeled into 2 classrooms (since labs take more space than classrooms). </p>

<p>And, no one can say for sure that more academic buildings won’t be built within the next 8 years. Bama is building all the time, it doesn’t stand to reason that it would just suddenly stop. </p>

<p>furthermore, growth of the grad school allows use of the current buildings at times when they aren’t currently being used since grad students often attend classes at non-traditional times. I bet 75% of Bama’s classrooms are empty at night. If more of those classrooms are used at night for grad students, can’t you understand why new buildings wouldn’t be needed? </p>

<p>With Mercedes Benz located where it is, Bama is well-positioned to grow its grad school and/or undergrad number for non-traditional students. A Benz employee who is seeking to further his education (or get the BS degree he never got) would be able to do so …at night. </p>

<p>You need to be able to “think outside the box”…which seems to be your limitation. </p>

<p>*For my daughter, the size of the departmental honors classes is more important. *</p>

<p>Yes, it’s very obvious that your family has made its decision. Good luck to her.</p>

132

<p>Though this thread is older i came across it when investigating AU vs UA. I am from Illinois and have read/investigated/questioned a choice between these two schools. Overall perception here is that AU is better academically but UA is the flagship school so gets more fan support. We know several students from Illinois who chose AU and UA. Based on the students that went to each respective school, the perception mentioned before is supported. More fun loving and less academic students chose UA. More academically concerned students chose AU. </p>

<p>Looking at Freshman statistics this is also supported with AU lowest 25th percentile being 23 and UA 21 (IL uses ACT as a required HS testing format). Class rank for AU is also higher than UA. Basically if you use statistics given by Princeton Review and US News Au has a better overall academic group of students. </p>

<p>That being said, does anyone know the success and employment rates for graduates of these schools. This is also an important factor in deciding what school to go to. Also, probably more telling than what freshman numbers are.</p>

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<p>UA rejects almost half of its applicants but has a much higher yield rate for applications. There are just as many if not more, top notch students at UA than AU. But yes, there are also more lower performing high school students who go to UA. </p>

<p>With the school at record enrollment, look for UA to become even more selective. It is not a coincidence that US News and World Report has had UA topping AU for the last several years. That is not a knock against AU as much as a testament to UA’s upward trajectory. </p>

<p>Which school had more National Merit Scholars last year? UA!</p>

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<p>*Overall perception here is that AU is better academically but UA is the flagship school so gets more fan support. We know several students from Illinois who chose AU and UA. Based on the students that went to each respective school, the perception mentioned before is supported. More fun loving and less academic students chose UA. More academically concerned students chose AU. </p>

<p>Looking at Freshman statistics this is also supported with AU lowest 25th percentile being 23 and UA 21 *</p>

<p>Bama is higher ranked than Auburn. Auburn accepts a very large majority of its applicants. Bama rejects nearly half of its applicants.</p>

<p>Using the lowest 25th percentile is not only meaningless (what the heck is it saying???), but it is really the result of the fact that Bama has much greater diversity and enrolls many more African American students than auburn does. Bama is committed to accepting and graduating a large number of AA students. The national ACT average of AAs is a 16, so naturally a school that has this diversity committment is willing to withstand that its lower 25th percentile is going to take a hit. </p>

<p>That said, Bama’s committment to diversity in no way negatively affects its academic quality in the classroom. Bama’s top 25 percentile is an ACT 30+. Those students scored in the 96th percentile or higher. </p>

<p>When you consider the majors those top 25% (or even the top 33%) are largely concentrated in (probably in about 8-10 majors), it doesn’t make sense that the school would need to dumb down the curriculum because there are kids on campus IN OTHER MAJORS who have lower test scores. </p>

<p>Roll Tide!</p>

<p>Auburn: 46% in top 10th of graduating class
Alabama: 43% in top 10th of graduating class</p>

<p>This is worth bringing up?</p>