<p>Two things I know for sure that I want in a school are strong MT training (of course!) and along with strong academics. While I'm not sure whether I want to take the BA or BFA path quite yet-- both have lots of very attractive aspects-- I do know that I want to start building a solid list so I can plan my visits. Just to give some context: an example of a BFA program that does not completely drop all non-theater academics is NYU/Tisch's, and an example of a very academically and theatrically strong BA school is Northwestern. I love both schools, and I want to find more in that vein, if that makes sense! Any ideas?
I know I sound like an academic obsessed psycho in this post, but it's just that while theater is my one true passion (yes, cliche!), I want to be at a place where I can continue learning across the board. I keep reading and hearing about these incredible theater and MT programs, only to check the school's profile on collegeboard or something and see that the average GPA of incoming freshman was like 1.5... not exactly the academic caliber I was hoping for. So, if anyone has any schools that come to mind, I would love to hear about them!
Thanks!</p>
<p>I truly do not know your academic profile. But here are some BFA and BA schools where the academic selectivity is more selective (though some I listed are more selective than others):</p>
<p>BFA: NYU/Tisch, U of Michigan, USC, U of Miami, Elon, Emerson, Syracuse, Penn State
BA: UCLA, Yale, Brown, Brandeis, American, Muhlenberg, Northwestern, Tufts, Boston College, Skidmore
(not all of these BAs have a MT major but they have strong theater and/or strong MT as an extracurricular too</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon is a very selective university with a top BFA in MT program, but the program doesn’t include a strong academic component.</p>
<p>This is just a start and not comprehensive.</p>
<p>Thank you so much! I know it must be difficult to suggest schools for someone who you know close to nothing about 
that said, this is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!</p>
<p>My D was at Muhlenberg,which has a BA in Theater. She loved the school, really felt challenged by the academics and grew SOOO much in her performance skills. She also had many performance opportunities. It is a small school; size and location might be something to look at also!</p>
<p>wb4 – I PMed you. </p>
<p>Good Luck :)!</p>
<p>Thanks all!</p>
<p>Indiana University not only has a BFA MT program but a BA Theatre program. Singing lessons are available through Jacobs School of Music - one of the top music schools in the world. Dance lessons are available from the same source as the MTs take. There are an abundance of performance opportunities. As for stats, these are from 2008. I will caution that as the demand has risen the stats have increased every year. </p>
<p>69% in the top 1/4 of their high school
avg GPA 3.58 (37.42% had 3.75 or higher)
Avg ACT 2.7
Avg score on Reading or Math range of 500-599 (with 35% scoring higher)</p>
<p>In addition to the above, it’s absolutely the most gorgeous campus you have ever seen. It’s affordable - after dorm life you can share an apt or house for $350 month. It’s a safe quaint college town - the worse crime has been drunk driving. I don’t know what other interests you have. If it’s philosophy this is the home of B.F. Skinner and the Kinsey Institute, the Journalism dept is excellent and the school newspaper ranked as one of the top in the nation, I think US News just ranked the Kelley business school as #15.</p>
<p>You used to be able to edit your posts and I don’t see that option. Anyway…ACT is 27 not 2.7 and I meant Psychology not Philosophy :)</p>
<p>I have no clue the academic profile of the OP. That is an important piece here. MANY BFA and BA programs offer fine (or “strong” as she puts it) academics. However, the only thing she has given us to go by is wanting academically selective schools (offering BFA or BA) with an interest in MT that are in the “ballpark” of NYU or Northwestern. </p>
<p>While Indiana University is a fantastic university which I recommend constantly to many applicants and have had many apply, I would not put it into the same academic ballpark or selectivity range to the university itself (not counting the artistic component!!) as NYU or Northwestern. </p>
<p>To compare apples to apples, one has to look at the stats for those entering in fall of 2008 for all three schools, as complete information is unavailable across the board for fall of 2009, though I have provided it for fall of 2009 wherever it was available. </p>
<p>For Fall of 2008:
INDIANA UNIVERSITY:
Acceptance rate to IU was 70.7%
31% were from top 10% of HS class, 69% from top 25%, 97% from top 50%
Avg. GPA 3.6
mid 25%-75% SAT CR was 510-620
mid 25%-75% SAT M was 530-640
mid 25%-75% SAT CR/M combined was 1040-1260
mid 25%-75% ACT composite was 23-29</p>
<p>For Fall of 2009:
INDIANA UNIVERSITY:
mid 25%-75% SAT CR/M combined was 1100-1290
mid 25%-75% ACT composite was 24-28</p>
<p>For Fall of 2008:
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY:
Acceptance rate was 32.1%
68% were from top 10% of HS class, 92% from top 25%, 100% from top 50%
Avg. GPA 3.6
mid 25%-75% SAT CR was 620-720
mid 25%-75% SAT M was 630-720
mid 25%-75% SAT CR/M combined was 1250-1440
mid 25%-75% ACT composite was 28-31 (only 13% of applicants submitted ACT scores)</p>
<p>For Fall of 2009:
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY:
Acceptance rate was 29.4%
69.7% were from top 10% of HS class
Avg. GPA 3.63
mid 25%-75% SAT CR was 630-730
mid 25%-75% SAT M was 650-750
mid 25%-75% SAT CR/M combined was 1280-1480
mid 25%-75% ACT composite was 29-31 </p>
<p>For Fall of 2008:
NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY:
Acceptance rate was 26.2%
85% were from top 96% of HS class, 92% from top 25%, 99% from top 50%
Avg. GPA not reported
mid 25%-75% SAT CR was 670-750
mid 25%-75% SAT M was 690-780
mid 25%-75% SAT CR/M combined was 1360-1530
mid 25%-75% ACT composite was 30-33</p>
<p>NYU and Northwestern are considerably more difficult to be admitted to academically than Indiana. (using the stats of admitted students along with the acceptance rate as well) Northwestern is a little more selective than NYU. All offer fine academics. The OP could be more specific as to the level of selectivity she is seeking but the one thing she gave as a point of reference is Northwestern and NYU and so while there are a lot of BFA and BA schools strong in theater and MT that offer fine academics, it seems that the parameters the OP is seeking is a certain level of academic SELECTIVITY. Perhaps she can define it further. I took it as in the “ballpark” of NYU or Northwestern in terms of SELECTIVITY TO THE UNIVERSITY (without the audition component factored in). If her college selection criteria does not mean that the school must be as SELECTIVE academically as NYU or Northwestern, indeed it does open up many more possibilities that offer strong MT or Theater and strong academics, even if these schools’ admissions criteria and acceptance rates are not as selective.</p>
<p>As an example, I have had students whose academic profile are in the ballpark/match range to NYU or Northwestern and where Indiana would be a safety school for them academically. </p>
<p>By the way, you CAN edit your posts on CC and are given a 20 minute window to do so and after that, you no longer can and so it appears that more than 20 minutes went by between your posts, HoosierMom and that may be the reason you could no longer edit your first one. :)</p>
<p>Soozievt: You are always such a fount of knowledge. I just wanted to add some information I recently learned. The College Board used a number of years of statistical data and generated the following findings: one’s score on the new writing section of the SAT actually had the highest predictive value in how one performs in college as a freshman. Accordingly, colleges are now using the writing section for admissions purposes as well as CR and M. Admittedly, FISKE and some websites haven’t kept up, but the writing section certainly can’t be ignored.</p>
<p>I agree that the writing score cannot be ignored. Some schools are using it and some are not yet. I only gave the stats for the CR and M sections above as that was what I had for all three schools but I usually ALSO report the Writing scores for my advisees. </p>
<p>For NYU, for Fall of 2008: Writing mid range 620-720.
For Northwestern, for Fall of 2008: Writing mid range 670-750
For Indiana, have no Writing range for 2008 or 2009. </p>
<p>Since I didn’t have it for Indiana…I just left it off for the other two since the objective was comparing the three schools in terms of academic selectivity. Not all schools report this stat yet.</p>
<p>I would advise students to do their best effort and prep for the Writing section. Some colleges are still not weighing it that much since they don’t feel they have enough years of statistical information but other schools are certainly taking the scores into account.</p>
<p>The OP wanted schools with good MT training and academics. They were open to possible BA programs as well as BFA programs. Their criteria, understandable, was not to forfeit educational opportunities while attending a school with an avg GPA of 1.5. Indiana offers all that. </p>
<p>As for your comparison…it would be impossible to compare IU with Northwestern and NYU. NW and NYU are private schools. IU is a state supported school that has certain requirements to educate Indiana residents meeting certain requirements. Therefore their acceptance rate is skewed and you can’t compare it. The requirements above are not the same either for in state and out of state applicants. </p>
<p>US News Ranking 2010: </p>
<p>Northwestern #12 ($38,461)<br>
NYU #32 ($38, 765)
IU #71 ($26,160)</p>
<p>Indiana clearly offers good MT training and strong academics! I recommend it all the time! Excellent school indeed! </p>
<p>The gut feeling I got from her post, but she can clarify, was she was looking for schools that were very academically selective while offering MT. I have had some high achieving academic students who are talented in MT who seem only willing to attend a school that is very academically selective at the same time as offering strong theater or MT. I know a bunch of kids like this and their college list differs from those who are willing to attend any MT school that has a strong MT program (even if they are a top student), even if the university itself is not very selective. I know a number of students who, for example, will only consider NYU, UMich or one or two other BFA programs and otherwise are trying for BA ones like Northwestern, Yale, Brown, etc. I know some who got into BFA programs who selected Northwestern or Yale over the strong BFA schools as their top priority was highly selective academic settings. My D even has several friends who did this and I have several advisees who did as well (even though they got into BFA programs and have strong MT backgrounds). The OP sounded to me that she was aiming for that kind of thing but I can’t be sure. </p>
<p>Personally, I am not into US News Rankings and my kids ,nor I, ever looked at them when selecting colleges. They couldn’t even tell you where their colleges ranked. </p>
<p>The class rank and test scores of admitted students to IU is in a different ballpark than to NYU or Northwestern. I have had a lot of students get into IU who did not have a chance at Northwestern or NYU for admittance. For students who are in the ballpark academically for NYU or NU, they have used IU as their safety/likely, sure bet school, including my niece who is in a BFA program at UMich. In fact, students like this who are in the NYU or NU range, have won large merit awards to Indiana because they were above the typical stats of admitted students there.</p>
<p>This does not in any way negate that IU certainly has strong MT, theater, music, and strong academics. I highly recommend IU. It would be good for the OP too. I don’t have any clue her academic profile, but if she is a true contender for NYU or NU academically and wants schools in that same academic level of selectivity, I would not say Indiana fits that description but I would recommend her to apply there for strong theater, MT and academics.</p>
<p>UMich would be fair to compare to Indiana as both are state schools, not private. Both offer fine MT and theater programs and strong academics. That said, UMich is definitely more selective to get into academically than is Indiana. That was what I thought the OP was looking for and why I included UMich in there. </p>
<p>While I get the point that IU is a public university and NYU and NU are not, that is part of the point…as you pointed out, their mission is to educate Indiana’s students and the admissions guidelines have to accommodate that where NYU and NU do not. Thus the overall stats of the student body and the acceptance rates differ from the ballpark for NYU and NU. I understand why as you have pointed out so well. But that is why overall, IU is not considered as selective academically as NU or NYU and is not as difficult to be admitted to as those two schools, even if the reason is totally understandable.</p>
<p>I do not know the OP but the little bit she did share sounded familiar to me. At the moment, even, I have an advisee who will only apply to a couple of BFA schools (all in very selective colleges academically speaking) and the rest are all BA (inc. Harvard, Yale, Brown) and is not willing to attend a BFA at a school that is not also more selective academically. Now, that is not my point of view and my D was willing to apply to many types of BFA programs in a variety of settings unlike these others kids, even though she was a top student with strong academics. I will admit, if given a choice, out of her entire list, she preferred NYU and UMich, in part, because their BFA programs are located in academically very selective universities and she did end up going with that. She was open to other possibilities, however, but I know many kids who are top academic students and talented in MT or Acting who are not willing to go to a school that is not very selective academically as well, even if it offers good academics.</p>
<p>Looking back at Soozievt’s original list, let me also point out that Syracuse University, while possibly being more on the academically selective side, is a conservatory-based program, with not much room at all for academic subjects. My impression of the OP’s desire is for a program that balances academics and MT training, and, while my son both applied and was accepted to Syracuse, we felt that the academic component was not nearly as strong there as they were at some other programs…largely because of the few number of general education credits required.</p>
<p>That is a good point. The OP will need to examine the curriculum requirements for each school. NYU, for example, has more liberal arts with their BFA than a number of other BFAs have.</p>
<p>At Syracuse, the options for more academics outside required BFA classes open up in the junior and senior years. In addition, there is a BS in acting degree (in addition to the BFA in acting degree) where there is more flexibility for academic electives outside the drama department and the opportunity to minor in another field. </p>
<p>In addition, you can double major at SU (or add a minor to the drama major) if you are willing to either go to school for 5 years or year-round. Not sure you can get more selective than some of SU’s programs outside of drama like the Newhouse school of journalism and Maxwell school of public affairs – and there are countless others for which the school is highly regarded in the world of academia. The academics at SU are top-notch including the drama classes. The chancellor is a dynamo and a true visionary.</p>
<p>Finally, one of the greatest learning opportunities at Syracuse U is Syracuse Stage, the LORT equity theatre, at which the students learn from working professionals and train (and even perform) from the ground up. And for those interested in classical acting, a semester at the Globe Theatre in London. It doesn’t get much better than that in terms of what I would characterize as academics.</p>
<p>Just want to add that academics were extremely important to me as a parent when my d was selecting the schools to apply to/audition. I discouraged her from applying to schools that did not have strong academics behind them.</p>
<p>Yes, the reason I listed Syracuse originally is because the school is more selective academically than many universities that happen to house very strong BFA programs. It is not the most selective academically, but it is more selective than many of the others. </p>
<p>By the way, my own kid applied and got into Syracuse’s BFA in MT and we liked what we saw too. I have been there three times. My older D got into grad school for Architecture at Syracuse, though chose not to attend. However, as an undergraduate at Brown, she did a semester abroad through Syracuse’s program in Florence which was excellent. Back in the day (way back, LOL), I got into Syracuse myself but did not attend.</p>
<p>One challenge in this scenario of trying to combine solid training in theatre with academic excellence is researching the resources available to the student if they decide to not go BFA. For example while Univ of Michigan has a fantastic reputation for training in MT and excellent academic studies if one wanted to pursue a BA instead of a BFA they would find the professors in the areas of singing, acting and dance that created that reputation would not be accessible to them as a BA student. They might not find performance opportunities open to non-BFAs. It requires careful research.</p>
<p>If one wants to major in theater but to do a BA and not a BFA, I would not recommend applying to UMich or to many of the other schools with BFA programs. The list of BA schools I mentioned in post #2, for example (which is definitely not an exhaustive list by any means) have strong theater and strong academics but do not ALSO have BFA programs. The one exception I might make to this rule of thumb is Indiana where I think one would have access to voice, dance, theater in the BA track, even though there is now a BFA in MT program in place there. Another exception I might look into is the BA by audition at Emerson, even though they also have a BFA there as this BA is performance based. Otherwise, if seeking a strong BA in Theater/Acting or MT, I would not look to the schools, like Mich, that have a BFA.</p>