Arizona, NY, PA, Cali??? College suggestions please

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I'm trying to help my daughter decide on a college. Right now we are in the process of creating a list of schools to apply to. We have both read TONS of info on here, and are honestly no closer to figuring any of this out! So, we are seeking suggestions and guidance :) First, here are her stats:</p>

<p>Senior, regular public high school
3.8 unweighted gpa with many honors classes
SAT 1150 (math 510, reading 640) or 1720 with writing
ACT 25
4 years in high school drama, International Thespian, several honors & awards, some community theater and outside coaching/classes</p>

<p>She loves acting & theater and wants to pursue acting as a career. She also loves to write though, and her teachers have said she is very talented. So, after much reading here and discussion, we are leaning towards her pursuing a BA with a Theater or Acting major and a minor in writing. The biggest decision now is WHERE.</p>

<p>Due to her academic achievements and her "exceeding" scores on our state's exams, she has a full tuition paid 'scholarship' to any of our three state schools. However, these are Arizona schools, and we keep hearing that they are not the best schools to attend for acting or for academics. This decision is now even harder, as last week she was chosen by her school to apply for U of A's Baird Honors College scholarship, which would end up covering a little more than half of her annual costs. She also has a scholarship offer from NAU (Northern Arizona University) but it's reputation is that of the worst academically of the three and we know nothing of it's theater program...however, it has the nicest campus and college town. She doesn't like the idea of staying in the desert or in AZ, but if she gets a full or half scholarship, she might have to.</p>

<p>Her preference has always been to go to a New York school, like Syracuse, or to a school in the northeast...but she is also open to the idea of a southern Cali school, so she can make connections in the industry. She is a very artistic person and also a very good student. Personality-wise, she does not like high pressure or cliques, so I think she would fare better at a school that has a relaxed vibe, but that also pushes the students a bit. She would also prefer as much acting and stage opportunities as possible. She wouldn't like waiting until Junior year to be able to act in a play. Also, she has only done straight theater but would like to start taking some vocal training and maybe try MT. So, I think she would like a school that offers both.</p>

<p>I think that covers everything. We both appreciate any suggestions or opinions :)</p>

<p>wow… relaxed vibe…I think I know where she should go, but price is an issue.</p>

<p>In Southern California, the main schools are: UCLA (BA Theatre with Acting and MT specializations, but also playwrighting and directing); USC (BA and BFA); Chapman; Cal Arts (BFA); and Loyola Marymount. Also there is UC Irvine (non-audition for freshman year); UC Santa Barbara (non audition freshman year); Cal State Fullerton; and S.F. State. </p>

<p>Each of these programs has pluses and minuses. In terms of the ones that are most renowned in Cali, that would be UCLA, USC and Cal Arts. </p>

<p>UCLA is a BA program, but it is run like a BFA Conservatory. Disadvantages are you cannot go abroad your junior year (you have to go during the summer) and you cannot work in the biz while you are in school. Like many of the competitive acting schools, you can’t act on stage till your sophomore year. Advantages are it is a great academic school, has an amazing alumni network, and great training. Your daughter could minor in English. (Mine is minoring in Film). Also, the students can audition for films made by the student film makers in the prestigious film school. You must audition to get in. The bulk of the decision is the audition, and so long as you meet UC requirements, and your audition rocks, you have a shot. They audition 1100-1200 a year for 100 slots, of which 60-65 are for Acting and MT. By the end of the four years, that 60 will be down to 22 or so by natural attrition. (UCLA is not easy.) These kids are not “cut”. They change to playwrighting, directing, or just get a BA Theatre without a specialization so they can take a semester off to be in a show or go junior year abroad. If your D decided to do playwrighting instead, many of those students graduate in 3 years, especially if they come in with AP scores. Think of the monetary savings! My D attends UCLA and is in the Acting program.</p>

<p>USC has both the BA and BFA. Again, you must audition and the BFA in particular is very competitive. I don’t know much about the program, except it is well loved. It has all the same advantages of UCLA – location, alumni network, great training. Its location is not quite as good as UCLA, although this is getting better. (An issue of the surrounding neighborhood.) But the campus is gorgeous. USC alum are movers and shakers and very proud people. Its kinda of like a club and once you are in, this is a good thing. I can’t say about academics, but I know generally speaking USC is not easy to get into. I would put it on a par with UCSD or UCSB. It is not as difficult to get into as Berkeley, Stanford or UCLA if you were just applying, for example, undeclared. But as the programs are weighted toward talent, I would imagine its looking for the same as UCLA and other audition weighted programs. My D did not apply for USC because her local high school is the number one feeder high school for USC and she wanted a change.</p>

<p>Cal Arts: this is where I think your D should seriously look. It doesn’t care about grades at all. They don’t even ask for test scores. its all the audition. It is about an hour outside of downtown LA. There is not enough housing for all the students, which is a real downside. The campus looks like a high school campus. Its is a quiet part of LA county, very suburby. On the other hand, great alumni network. Its very touchy feely. You have to go there and get the vibe. The thing is here, its all about the acting, and they have great writing programs, everything artistic and edgy you can think of. But it is VERY EXPENSIVE. My D was admitted to the BFA Acting program here. </p>

<p>Chapman is gorgeous. The area around it is something like Main Street Disneyland. My D has several friends who go there. They love it. It is challenging to get cast. We know a very talented young lady who didn’t get cast until her sophomore year, but then was offered many parts all at once and got to chose. It is easier to get into than other So Cal programs. We also know, however, kids who have dropped out in favor of going back to community colleges and trying to transfer into the UC system.</p>

<p>LMU - We similarly know many kids who got in here. Not as difficult to get in. Other than that, I know very little. I heard a rumor, however, that the girl who stars in GLEE went here. I don’t know if that is true.</p>

<p>UC Irvine and UCSB - my D was admitted to both, but as you cannot audition, it is based on grades and essays and SATs. You audition at the end of your sophomore year, I believe, for both programs. After she was admitted, they both contacted her and asked her to come and talked to her. Once she told them she was admitted to UCLA and Cal Arts, they basically said, “never mind.”</p>

<p>SF State. We know many fine actors who went here. They have a program with some Shakespeare show in the Bay Area that the actors work with. We have seen the quality of the actors who went there. Very good. Admission is on grades and SAT only. SF State I believe is one of the impacted CSU campuses. But still, it won’t be as hard to get in as most UC’s.</p>

<p>Cal State Fullerton – amazing alumni network. Brand new building that rocks. Lots about this program on CC. I have heard, though, that housing is an issue.</p>

<p>Outside of CA:</p>

<p>NY: the obvious is NYU, Suny Purchase, Syracuse, Ithaca. For most, Purchase is a pipe dream. It is difficult to get into, based on talent if not solely, darn near. NYU is difficult to get into, and some on this page will say your D’s academics are not quite there. But please, when you review all the pages and pages about NYU, be aware that some changes have happened in recent months at NYU in its acting program. Not that these are bad changes… but they are changes and you need to know that some things are no longer relevant. Ithaca - very remote and cold, but it produces great actors. My D’s teacher went there. She is remarkable.</p>

<p>Pennsylvania: I wished my D had auditioned for University of the Arts. Of course, there is Carnegie Mellon, but that is nearly impossible to get into. </p>

<p>Arizona: I think Arizona State has a respected program. There are pages about it on CC</p>

<p>Massachusetts: I’ll throw a curve ball at you. Have you thought about Emerson College in Boston? One problem is they are notoriously tight with financial aid. But it is a very small school and has great writing and acting programs. It is in the heart of Boston, but this is a college town, so it has a different feel than, say NYC or LA. </p>

<p>Good luck to you, and do searches on some of these schools on these pages, and those under Musical Theatre majors. You will get tons of information on them.</p>

<p>Hi chrissyblu :)</p>

<p>Can’t thank you enough for your reply! (I was beginning to think I wouldn’t get any lol). You’ve offered a wealth of great info. I grew up in southern cali, so I have an idea of the big universities (ucla, usc) but not about CalArts or UCSD. My daughter’s friend (from high school theater) is in her Freshman year at UCSD, so she is going to feel her out about it. I’ve heard great things about CalArts, but didn’t know it was so pricey. Funds are a great issue, so it sounds like that is out of the question. I dont’ know anything about LMU either, so we’ll look into it. I do know that Lea Michele (Glee) didn’t go there though. She’s from NY and has a long career on Broadway…most notably in the lead in Spring Awakening (she’s amazing!). </p>

<p>It’s a hard decision about AZ…here, the reputation is that U of A is the best academically and that they are better for acting, where ASU is better for MT. But, with her being offered full tuition and maybe even close to full ride to U of A Honors College…ugh, it’s a tough call!</p>

<p>My daughter toured Cornell, Syracuse (where step-dad went) and Ithaca this summer. She loved Syracuse, hated Cornell, and was so-so about Ithaca. Of course, this was only based on the tours. She had considered Purchase for awhile, but doesn’t want the conservatory type of training (thus the decision to go for a BA instead of BFA). She really wants to be able to take a broad range of classes, and also wants to either double major or minor in writing. She is now very intrigued with Muhlenberg and it sounds like it might be a good fit. It seems like Pennsylvania has quite a few good theater schools. I hadn’t heard of U of the Arts, so we will definitely check that out! Boston is definitely not out of the question, so we will put Emerson on our “look at” list as well :)</p>

<p>As far as her gpa & sat’s it’s really frustrating! She has a 3.8 unweighted, is expected to graduate at or near the top 10% and has taken lots of honors classes (honors english 3 years, AP Comp & Lit, honors us history, 3 years of French, etc) but she just can’t seem to score to her potential on the SAT’s. We think it’s nerves, but who knows. She might try for a third time later this year.</p>

<p>She is a really hard working good student, but just isn’t the type that thrives on being competitive with others as far as grades…that’s what I meant by “relaxed vibe”. For instance, she just wouldn’t do well in a competitive Ivy atmosphere. She does well in classes where the teacher is passionate and makes the class interesting, yet also expects a bit more and pushes them to do their best. Socially, she isn’t the partying type…more the go to concerts, movies, coffee houses, etc., type. </p>

<p>Anyway, thanks again for your VERY helpful response! I have already read tons on here over the last year (off & on) but still find narrowing the choices down to be very confusing! Hope I’m not the only one.</p>

<p>Focusing for a moment on your expressed preference for a BA program, let me add a couple of thoughts. First, many of the schools that have been suggested offer only a BFA. At many BFA programs, there is a limited opportunity to take classes outside of the department, so it is important to look at the actual sequenced BFA acting major curriculum on each school’s website to get a handle on whether the program will provide you with a satisfactory opportunity to take concentrated courses in writing to obtain that minor you spoke of. Also, when looking at Syracuse, keep in mind that the B.S. program in the Theatre department is not a program for which students apply as freshmen. All students in the Theatre Department apply for the BFA program and then after 2 years may shift to the B.S. program if they conclude that they do not want to continue which the advanced specialization of the BFA program or if it is suggested that they do so as a result of their juries.</p>

<p>As to schools in Pennsylvania (I live outside of Philadelphia) here are some additional thoughts. Muhlenberg is an excellent liberal arts BA school with a very well regarded BA Theatre Program in which you can concentrate on performance (acting). It has excellent academics and has a progressive approach to admissions in which SAT scores can be optional if certain writing samples are submitted and other steps are taken. Well worth looking at. Also, Temple University has a very strong Theatre Department plus all the resources of a full blown University. Admission to the acting major is on a non-audition basis but students must audition to move on to the advanced acting classes. Your daughter’s SAT scores would not generally be an issue given her other stats. Temple also has a very strong honors program. It’s another school worth checking out in detail given the interests your daughter has. UArts has a top notch acting program but it is a BFA (my daughter is a MT BFA student there). Check out the structured curriculum carefully as well as the offerings in the Liberal Arts Department to make sure it meets your desires with regard to your daughter’s interests in writing. If the priority is on acting, then UArts would be a very strong choice. If there is a real emphasis on the writing minor from a broad liberal arts perspective, other schools may be a better match unless - and this is an important caveat - your daughter’s interest in writing is in the area of theatre and performing arts. If such is the case, UArts does offer excellent opportunities and training in theatre and theatrical performance oriented writing (playwriting, scripts etc).</p>

<p>MNK is correct about the program at Syracuse – my D is a senior there, and the program is strictly BFA until junior year, when students can transfer to a BS program if they prefer. It is a terrific program, though – if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.</p>

<p>My D has ALOT of friends who are in the U of A BFA program – both acting and MT. This is a “love it or hate it” program. It is a cut program (many threads already on that issue – search for them), but the kids in the program seem to love it (unless, of course, they are cut). I believe U of A also has a non-audition BA program but if she wants to pursue acting, I don’t think it would be a good option. I’d be happy to share more with you about what I know of this program if it ends up to be a serious option for her.</p>

<p>Anyone interested in either the UCs or the CSUs should be aware that, due to the recession, more people will be applying to state schools this year but, due to California’s budget problems, the schools will be admitting fewer students. Some students are accepted but cannot start until Winter or Spring, and some students have had problems getting classes. And, as if all this were not enough, next year may see a whopping 1/3 increase in tuition.</p>

<p>SUNY University of Buffalo (as well as Buffalo State, but it is not as good a program) offers a BA program, which if she is open to upstate NY (and lots of snow) might be a consideration.</p>

<p>I am currently a student in USC’s BA Theatre program. It’s an amazing program and i would be happy to answer any questions anyone has about acting or MT (we have a great MT community). PM me!</p>

<p>Thanks MNK and onstage :slight_smile: Yes, you are correct that we are focusing on a BA, not a BFA. We appreciate your input on that topic, as well as the Syracuse info. Although we would love for her to attend step-dad’s alma mater, she wouldn’t want to have to do the BFA program and then switch later on. </p>

<p>Muhlenberg is sounding better and better for her needs/desires. We looked at the Temple site after reading your response, but she didn’t like the fact the campus is in the middle of the city. It’s one of the reasons she dropped the NYU idea. We’re going to look at UArts, although she isn’t just interested in dramatic writing (although she does want to try out a playwriting & screenwriting class). She loves to write short stories, fiction, poetry and newspaper articles for her high school, so she would want a broader writing program.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your input…it was very helpful!</p>

<p>Hi IMHopeful,</p>

<p>Are you in AZ too? I would really appreciate any info on the U of A program that you would be willing to share. Acting is her passion and what she wants to persue. However, after much discussion, she has decided to go for a BA instead of a BFA, so that she can take more classes that she is interested in, and also so that she can either double major or minor in writing. Then she will go for her MFA in Acting. She is applying to the Baird Honors College, so any info on that would be great too. </p>

<p>We did read all about the cuts…that really turned her off towards the idea of U of A. However, I don’t think it applies to the BA people, right? How do her friends feel about the campus, housing and Tucson in general? We are in Phx, so we don’t know Tucson at all. </p>

<p>Thanks for your help :)</p>

<p>Hi theater mom :)</p>

<p>Thanks for the Cali info. I hadn’t thought about their budget problems affecting admissions! Also, it’s good to know about the possible tuition hike.</p>

<p>University of Arizona has BFA programs that cut students. A question your D may want to ask the department is what kind of performance opportunities are open to BA students. Do most opportunities go to BFA students, or do BA students get equal opportunities?</p>

<p>Arizona State has Master’s level programs. A questions your D may want to ask the department is what kind of opportunities are available for undergraduates. Do most opportunities go to MFA students, or do undergraduate students get equal opportunities? </p>

<p>Northern Arizona appears only to have undergraduate theatre programs. Depending on the answers she receives from U of A and ASU she may find that Northern Arizona is the in-state schools where she can get the most opportunities as a BA undergraduate. </p>

<p>I do not know the answers, but it is worth asking at the three in-state schools you mentioned since she may get substantial scholarships.</p>

<p>Good Luck! :)</p>

<p>realjoy, I was just looking at UArts’ website and there is a BS program in the School of Communications that offers a concentration in writing. It’s oriented towards performing arts and media, magazines and electronic and print journalism etc but does offer some courses in poetry writing and other genres. I’m not sure it is offered as a minor though. You may want to check it out.</p>

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<p>Last year’s freshmen average was 3.85 and 1337/1600 for the honor’s program.</p>

<p>yes… to the tuition hike. As an instate UC student, my D is paying around $25,000 a year, with the 30% hike that was just announced. This does not include books and extras. I admit my D has picked some high end dorm choices. There are lower end choices.</p>

<p>Four Muhlenberg-like schools–strong in theater; nice suburban campuses; similar admission standards are Drew in Madison, NJ (35 minutes by train to NYC); Goucher outside Baltimore; American in DC; and Ursinus outside Philly. A safety would be Manhattanville in a NY suburb of NYC.</p>