<p>mvljog440
"I just hope the summer sailing program isn't cut. Then I'll be really ticked off." </p>
<p>Sorry, CSNTS as in the summer sailing Annapolis to Newport, has already been confirmed cut!!</p>
<p>From the USNA website... <a href="http://www.usna.edu/LangStudy/%5B/url%5D">http://www.usna.edu/LangStudy/</a></p>
<p>'One of the highest priorities in the Navy and the other armed services is the development of language and cultural expertise in its officers, civilians, and enlisted ranks. In the recently adopted Defense Language Transformation Roadmap, foreign language and cultural proficiency are considered as important as critical weapons systems and are called strategic assets in the Global War on Terrorism. Naval Academy graduates with foreign language proficiency are needed in the Navy and Marine Corps to support the transition to a new approach to warfighting in the twenty-first century.' </p>
<p>One would hope that these types of programs and graduate school opportunites in these areas will not be cut as they seem to reflect the officially stated needs of the Navy as well...</p>
<p>Mids who are studying languages other than Mandarin Chinese or Arabic are hearing rumors that their programs will be cut back or eliminated altogether. My mid has a language minor that she has studied for the past ten years (Saturday school, AP, etc.). I'd love to see second language minors for all midshipmen. CSNTS was excellent leadership/seamanship training. Would like to hear the rationale for cutting that program. What about the 24 new sailboats USNA ordered?</p>
<p>Hey, Navy2010 ... REALLY GRRRREAT post ... more informative than anything I've seen issuing from the Darkside or the "Daily Bugle" [i.e., a nickname for the "Capitol" from long, long ago]. I, too, would appreciate your expounding and enlarging on it ... also, hopefully, you will address your concerns [although I would advise keeping your -and your Mid's- name out of it ... There is a reason for the term BOHICO !] to all members of the BOV and possibly the Chairs of the Senate and House oversight committees.</p>
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<p>What is the half-life of a foreign language? Very very few midshipmen will have the opportunity to use a foreign language in the first several years after graduation. I see a mandatory language minor as a waste of time. However, West Point is an entirely different story. Additionally, DOD maintains a language school which is very good. Would it not be more benificial to utilize it only for those who need it and immediately prior to their need? I learned Vietnamese there and found it very helpful.</p>
<p>I think CSNTS was competing with the summer cruises aboard Naval vessels and ADM Fowler saw the latter as more important. One benefit of the four year leadership lab is that it gives midshipment an in-depth opportunity to learn to follow before they attempt to learn to lead. The summer cruise is a great opportunity to see how the enlisted sailors live.</p>
<p>The new sailboats replaced older ones which have been shipped out to ROTC units. However, I don't know if it was an overall one-for-one swap or if there was a fleet increase in size. They will still be used, as is my understanding, by the offshore sailing and racing teams.</p>
<p>An attempt at levity:</p>
<p>"What is the half-life of a foreign language?"</p>
<p>In the cases of Chinese and Arabic, about 2500 years.....</p>
<p>CSNTS was an excellent training opportunity with the Sub cruise as a great way to be introduced to the Navy and enlisted personel. When you do both "cruises" in the same summer they can be very complimentary to one another. If you are say doing NASS, then probably the complimentary choice for the cruise is in the fleet. As I understand from my mid - youngster year your choices were NASS (which was a selection process that you applied to early in second semester), CSNTS or YP's, and a Grey Hull Cruise. CNSTS did not replace being on an active Navy Vessel. Given that he picked CSNTS, his only other choice was a Grey Hull Cruise, which he chose Subs. </p>
<p>The leadership opportunity and more so the seamanship taught on the CSNTS was in valuable in my mids opinion. He was the navigator and had an excellent Officer teaching him things that are not learned in navigation. They spent every evening with celestial navigation. I am not sure you get that one on one instruction for a period of 10 days on a large ship. Both seem to have their value.</p>
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<p>Celestial navigation??? The Naval Academy doesn't offer celestial navigation as part of the curriculum anymore; it used to be a required core course.</p>
<p>When I participated on the varsity sailing team we used LORAN, RDF (Radio Direction Finding), and dead reckoning for navigation. We had a sextant, but they are extremely difficult to use on a pitching-heaving-rolling platform like a sailboat.</p>
<p>On one Newport-Bermuda race that I skippered, we lost our engine after just four hours into the race (which meant we lost our ability to charge batteries) so we ended up dead reckoning all the way to Bermuda and getting a final RDF fix four days later. Despite the difficulties, we finished third in class.</p>
<p>Oldlemming and Bill0510: not ignoring your request for more info....at a conference out in WIsconson, and just enough time to log-in-and-catch-up on reading this stuff.... and I want to do justice to your questions.... so will try and get back on here later with whatever else I can offer.........</p>
<p>for now, heard nothing about cuts in classes....
actually, no "details" about the "how to" at all....
apparently the same powerpoint presentation that "has been given over 20 times now".... to mids, parent groups, parent clubs, etc.....</p>
<p>but more to follow, promise!</p>
<p>Your right GA, Celestial Nav not required or even taught in either of the two Nav classes he has had/having at USNA. He found it pretty interesting and enjoyable. Obviously didn't sail "all night" using Celestial, but at least was exposed to it over the course of the nights from Newport to Annapolis.</p>
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<p>I agree that if you don't use it, you lose it. That's why the exchange programs are important. Immersion is the only way to build true fluency and proficiency. </p>
<p>I'd argue that the same is true for any coursework you take. It's like a muscle that you don't use; it atrophies after a period of disuse.</p>
<p>Dealing internationally as I do, I often find myself in the position of defending America and Americans and the perception that we're isolated and don't care about learning anything about cultures other than our own. Folks are always pleasantly surprised in Latin America when I can hold my own in a conversation. In fact, if I am the only "gringo" in a meeting, the meeting will be done entirely in Spanish and not "Spanglish".</p>
<p>At some point in the conversation, the question always comes up from those who don't know me well: "Where did you learn to speak such excellent Spanish?" I am always proud to say that I learned my Spanish at USNA and an immersion program with the Colombian Navy. Never had a lick of it before 2nd class year. These programs are important to continue, if for nothing else than improving the rest-of-world perception about the American military and Americans in general.</p>
<p>My two cents.</p>
<p>Didn't Sun Tzu write, "Know thy enemy" around 500 BC? How can you truly know enemies, current or potential, if you don't have some level of knowledge of their language and culture? Don't all of our officers, not just ones being posted as attaches, etc., need to have some understanding of foreign culture?</p>
<p>as promised....</p>
<p>in addition to the info already posted:</p>
<p>the discussion on the part of the admiral and dant was global in nature.... did get beneath the snorkel level when asked a specific question, but even then any "deep dives" were avoided.</p>
<p>Questions from the board of visitors centered first on the food issue- clearly there was concern that this hit the front pages of the papers and that was of particular concern. The Admiral and, nostly, dant, answered to that- but again, the issue was presented more as a "one time" situation, very limited in scope, and "addressed quickly." So to this parent, I would have to question the defination of "addressed" and "quickly," as from where I am sitting, it is still a "work in progress" and 17 days doesn't come close to "quick." What was clear was that the senators and others in attendance were not happy that it made the front pages.... several times... apparently one senator received hundreds of complaints/calls to her office.....</p>
<p>The board of visitors- specifically the senator from Maryland-Barbara Mikulski- advised the admiral and dant to continue to "work on quality".... and it appeared she does not consider the situation to be completely addressed. She advised the Admiral/Dant to continue to work on improving the food.</p>
<p>The other senator from Maryland questioned several areas: specifically, the cut of ECA,s, minority enrollment, recruiting issues and concerns now that the "MIds" are not out there and being seen.... admiral confirmed difficulty getting minority enrollment up (some improvement has been made, but remains below target).... dant chimmed in that ECAs have not been cut, but rather number of ECAs a mid can participate in has. </p>
<p>IMO, the issue with ECAs seems to contradict what has been happening on the yard, where it is apparent ECAs have been cut. The senator pushed a bit further on this, but the answers were, IMO, misleading and, once again, a snorkel .... deep dive avoided. I was disappointed there was not further discussion on this issue in particular.</p>
<p>Presence at football games. This was disturbing. The Admiral spoke to mids missing too many classes, chance of misbehavior when on liberty, both of which is involved with MO's to football games. He restated the "vision".... nation at war.... everything else "arbitrary"...'secondary, optional and conditional"... referred to removing all "unnecessary distractions" several times.....</p>
<p>one board of visitor member (sorry, did not get to identify "who") asked if there "were problems" at the academy necessiting such changes..... to which the admiral stated "no"..... he followed with a "why, then, the need....."....again, a very soft answer that basically answered nothing. When pushed (which was very, very limited), the standard answer of "nation at war".... "Vision".... "physical, mental and moral development" was evoked. It was repeated ....several times.</p>
<p>What was also stressed was the move towards more "intrusive leadership".... the word intrusive was emphasised. No further explanation as to "need" was discussed. The Admiral did state that grades could be improved....thus, more study hours, less missed classes, etc. THere was no data to support this offered.</p>
<p>There was questioning as to just how much "listening" went on before the "leading".... "who did you consult"...."who advised"... etc.... Supe stated he confronted with many leaders- teachers- .... a bit more questioning along these lines.... with the suggestion to "continue listening"....</p>
<p>What I will share is this.
There are several members of the board of visitors that appear to be seeking an honest evaluation of the "state of the brigade." To that end, the senator from maryland stated she has been innundated with calls..... her concern was evident. She questioned the decision to limit liberty in termsof two entities living in the same "capitol" .... and (paraphrasing) having to be good neighbors. She encouraged the Admiral to "consider closely" the effects some of these "decisions" have on USNA's neighbor when making decsions.</p>
<p>One one- and only one- occassion did I hear anyone accept "accountablity" for the food debocle.... "I guess it was my fault"..... in regard to "not communicating to the folks down the line" as to what the new mando meals would entail...... I would like to be able to say that she was clear in her assignment of "responsiblity and accountablity".... but it was not that at all.... again, the entire situation was, IMO, grossly downplayed, and in that regard, dishonest and misleading.</p>
<p>Will post, for those in need of "who to contact" should issues arrise, those that offered their cards ...."call for anything".....</p>
<p>the offers appeared sincere....</p>
<p>if you want the contact info, send a PM and I will forward the information.</p>
<p>One last note-
the board of visitors will be visiting the academy in the weeks ahead...got the impression it would be late Oct/early Nov..... but that they plan on taking a meal with the Brigade. I am most curious what will be served. We will see.</p>
<p>Wish I could offer more....
clearly the senators aide, the senator, and the CEO chairing the meeing recognized me as a "parent" and made me feel most welcome.</p>
<p>Not once was I approach, nor did I approach, either the Admiral or Dant.... take from that what you will. The admiral i could almost understand..... but the Dant....bumped right into her in the ladies room.... nervous and uncomfortable do not do justice to her demeanor..... it was clear getting her gig line straight was more important, and that seemed to be presenting her some difficulty.</p>
<p>Thats it folks.
Again, not sure what, if anything was accomplished. Reminds me of a recent book I read... "It's not about the truth"...... and that about sums it up.</p>
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<p>Is your mid sleeping in class?</p>
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<p>I would say definitely better prepared than a bunch of parents who have never been in the military who are attempting to second guess his every move.</p>
<p>If you ever decide to accept reality, it is not a university, it is a military academy.</p>
<p>This is the link to the DOD Policy Directive for service academies. This provides the responsibilities for the leadership of the academies.</p>
<p>It is a military academy.
Not second guessing.
Trying to understand.</p>
<p>One mission and one mission only: to support my Mid the best way I can.
That is my reality.
And there is one constant: communication is key. And right now it remains lacking.<br>
Not just with the parents.
With everyone.
But especially amongst those following.</p>
<p>Trying to understand.
Trying to remain objective.
Trying to see it from a "broader" perspective.</p>
<p>On some levels, makes perfect sence.
On other levels.... hard to seperate out what is reasonable and what is plain nonsense.
I was hoping to get some answers.
I walked away empty.</p>
<p>And I am of the opinion that the military needs to learn a lot more than the strategic firing of weapons.
There are other ways to win wars- and better yet, avoid them.<br>
Knowledge is power.</p>
<p>Very informative 2010. Good job! Thanks for attending.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, as is typical in many of these sorts of situations that include Boards of Directors, trustees, councilmembers, etc., the "overseers" are easily mis-directed by staff.</p>
<p>I have been studiously avoiding any public comment on this forum or others about my opinion on the new Supe.</p>
<p>But in the interests of clarity - here is something that I will encourage everyone to read as a way to hear directly from the Supe himself, his thoughts. </p>
<p>I think we all pretty much understand it is a Military Academy. But Hey the current Supe seems to also think it is a college and grades, class attendance, studying need to be up to par. Don't necessarily agree that he should demand "better" grades. Very hard to get results if the Mids are satisfied with their academic performances. Punishment doesn't work in most households when it comes to grades but hold that carrot out and you might get results - Oh I forgot he took the carrot away when he took away the privileges earned for Deans and Supes list. </p>
<p>also to quote the web site: "Every day, as the undergraduate college..."
To quote the catalog: "As the undergraduate college of the naval service,..."</p>
<p>Maybe they should stop using Undergraduate College and just call it "the Military Academy of the Naval Service"... Calling it a College might be construed they as false advertising.</p>
<p>Quoting the "current catalog" as gospel may not be accurate as the one online is no longer current: Adm Rempt not the Supe anymore and in the Sailing section they still have CSNTS. Maybe they should have updated it this summer while all of the changes were being formulated, kind of like telling the food service people that all mids will now be eating all those mandatory meals. Would be helpful to give potential applicants the most current information so they do not make decisions on things that may not be happening anymore. From the current catalog:</p>
<p>"USNA Sailing
The Robert Crown Center provides midshipmen with instruction in leadership, marlinspike seamanship, small boat seamanship, and competitive sail boat racing. Beginning with Plebe Summer Sailing (P-100), midshipmen are introduced to the fundamentals of the nautical art of sailing. Sailing instruction includes three phases:
lasers, small keel boats and ocean-capable sloops. After 21 hours of classroom and on-the-water sail instruction, a plebe can “skipper” a 26-foot sloop rigged keelboat and earns a Navy Sailing “B” qualification.
The following summer, select third class midshipmen have the opportunity to participate in advanced offshore sail training with the Command, Seamanship and Navigation Training Squadron (CSNTS). Those who master the skills required to sail one of the Academy’s 44-foot sloops offshore are eligible to earn the Navy’s Senior Offshore Skipper Qualification (“D” Qual)."</p>
<p>My suspicion is the topics for classroom instruction quoted in an earlier post, copied from the catalog, probably have not changed in the catalog for some years either. Just possibly it does not match what is actually taught in each individual classroom.</p>