Acceptance Rate

Hey so I was wondering if someone could explain to me why Notre Dame has such a high acceptance rate (mid twenties) compared to schools of similar prestige such as Georgetown (11%) or Vandy (12%) or even USC (18%)?

As per Notre Dame’s admissions statistics for the class of 2019 there were 3,593 students admitted out of 18,157 applications. Therefore, the acceptance rate was 19.8%.

If you look at the CDS for Notre Dame, you’ll see that the 2015 acceptance rate is 19.1–the usual publications, ie USNWR etc… haven’t updated for the 2015 entering class yet. Also, acceptance rate can be gamed by schools increasing the number of applicants–doesn’t matter if the applicants are qualified enough–they’re pounding out the “hey come apply here” solicitations. Having been through college searches with my kids, it’s easy to see who the colleges are that are “gaming”. We received NO, not a one, unsolicited piece of info from ND–where one child was accepted to and is going—but numerous letters from top schools in which we showed no interest–

Further, ND’s acceptance rate is continuing to decline. If you go to their website you will see that this year’s EA stats have been the strongest yet, and it was the largest EA class to date.

By the way, you may want to analyze each of the schools independently–I don’t think any of the schools you mention have to game for the UNWR rankings. USC gets a ton of applicants in and out of state by virtue it being a large state, on the coast (for international students) and its excellent academics.

@NHB123 Being a Catholic school, ND gets fewer applications and many fewer applications from students just trying to take a shot to get in.

Many Catholic high schools discourage kids applying to ND unless they have a decent chance of being accepted.

Schools like USC get tons of wasted applications from students that aren’t remotely qualified, from California and Asia.

This is common among schools in California. Plus there is a giant population and fewer schools than other parts of the US.

The more interesting question, I think, is what percentage of accepted students will choose to go? At ND, the yield for last year’s class was 56%, at Vandy - 41%, and at Georgetown - 47%.

Ditto what @OnTheBubble said.

The median test scores and academic profile of ND students are approximately at the 98th percentile of all college applicants. That’s on par with Duke, WashU, Northwestern, Brown, UPenn, etc., and higher than JH, Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, etc. Northwestern saw over 35,000 applications this year while ND saw over 18,000 applicants. Both enroll about 2000 students, but NU admits about 4000 and ND about 3600 (ND has a higher yield). For whatever reason (perhaps the relatively strong Catholic identity and South Bend location), less students apply to ND, but a greater percentage matriculate. Consequently, the admit rates are significantly different.

ND is in the top 10 for freshman retention rate, top ten for 4-year graduation rate and one of only 25 colleges that have a greater than 50% yield.

Where can I find the 4 year grad rate?

Everywhere I look shows 6 year grad rate…

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate?src=stats

I believe that four year graduation rates have some variables to consider. It only tracks freshmen starting in the fall for four years, and includes students in five year programs like architecture. Naturally, you don’t expect architecture students to graduate in four years. Notre Dame also offers a five year program to engineering students in a combined arts and letters/ engineering degree. These are choices, not a reflection on whether students can graduate on time.

The reason you want to consider graduation rates is that it reflects whether students can get the classes they need when they need them. I think when you consider Notre Dame’s four year graduation rate plus the five year programs, you really see that Notre Dame students that are in a normal four year plan get out of there on time.

I don’t know, fewer applicants?

You’re not applying to a school in northern Indiana unless you’ve got a damn good reason, haha. I had some good ones and still hated myself for four winters straight, thinking “I could have gone to Miami!”

Anyway, it’s good that ND doesn’t have a lower admissions rate. It means more people who want to go to ND get to go. Since ND is so often a “dream school,” that means a lot to people. I’ll take 20% of people who want it getting that wonderful opportunity over 5% any day. “Selectivity” is such a silly thing to be competitive over. Then again, so are all college rankings.

From an article in the NDSMC Observer a few days ago about recently released statistics on admitted students for the class of 2020 (http://ndsmcobserver.com/2016/04/class-2020-statistics/):

“There are colleges being criticized for going out there and getting a large number of applicants that they’re going to reject,” Bishop said, “A group of schools that seemingly are recruiting students they’re going to turn down. Notre Dame has not engaged in that practice. We don’t need a lower admit rate to feel good about what we’re doing, or try to be rated higher in some guide book. We’ve chosen not to play that strategy … We have a higher responsibility to not just over-encourage students that are not going to get in to apply. So that’s why you can have a seven percent rise in applications but an 18 percent rise in students that five years ago were being rated at a 50 percent rate or higher with those credentials.”

4 year graduation rates are published on a college’s common data set. The more commonly quoted figure is the 6 year graduation rate. I haven’t seen the final figures for the class of 2020, but in all probability Notre Dame’s overall admit rate is slightly under 20%. As for why Notre Dame’s rate is a little higher than it’s peer group I think students think twice about applying to a catholic university in Indiana. If you wanted to look at the standardized test scores of admitted students as an indicator of prestige or whatever, Notre Dame really stands out with 50th percentile ACT score is 32 - 34.

Two words. Early Decision.

ND and Georgetown and USC are all about an 18% acceptance rate. None of those schools use binding early decision, which significantly affects the admissions yield numbers and therefore the admissions rate.

In contrast, Vandy is a big ED school. It gets 51% of its class each year through ED. Since the yield on ED acceptances is 100%, Vandy can really ratchet down the RD acceptance rate but still fill the remaining 49% of its seats.

Other schools who are big ED users include Penn (54% of each class), Northwestern (50%), Duke (47%), Dartmouth (43%), JHU (42%), Brown (38%), Cornell (38%), WUSTL (36%). If they got rid of ED and just used EA instead, their admit rates would have to go up a lot since their yield rates would go down a lot.

Only the very most selective schools (HYPS) can get to those super low acceptance rates using only EA and not relying on ED.

Acceptance rate is very easy to manipulate through the use of ED, deferrals, wait lists, waiver of application fees, using the Common App etc. The best measure of academic selectivity isn’t the data on applications and acceptances. Instead, look at the credentials of the kids that actually enroll. Those numbers are much harder to manipulate (although there still are ways to do it).