<p>
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In fact, Chicago has a relatively low yield, defying the "only interested applicants" argument.
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</p>
<p>Have you seen the financial aid Chicago gives to its students? I think many of the people who get in just aren't able to afford it or are distracted by better financial offers (often from less "elite" colleges). I'm a Pell Grant recipient and I still have to pay $18,000/year tuition.</p>
<p>(I also think that you really can't say that students aren't truly interested if they deny Chicago for better financial aid. Some people just aren't able to afford it, no matter how enthusiastic they are about the school.)</p>
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Have you seen the financial aid Chicago gives to its students?
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</p>
<p>chicago pledges to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need. also.. they give merit scholarships, which would even further increase their yield.</p>
<p><a href="http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/legendsmyths/University/facts.html%5B/url%5D">http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/legendsmyths/University/facts.html</a></p>
<p>"Fifty-six percent of Chicago students receive financial assistance. To help students from all backgrounds attend Chicago, the University:</p>
<p>• Has a need-blind admissions policy
• Meets 100% of demonstrated need
• Offers merit scholarships"</p>
<p>That's very misleading. Go through Chicago's forum here and you'll see the number of complaints about financial aid. Chicago claims that there are more sources by which students should pay for college than other colleges use for their financial aid judgments. For example, one of the posts claims that Chicago used a student's parent's retirement fund as a resource for calculating how much aid that student would receive. They're very deceptive. (As a personal addition, EFC tells me that I should be paying $3000/year for college.) Chicago thinks I should be paying $18,000/year. Clearly, whatever Chicago's standards for "100% of demonstrated need" are is different from the rest of this nation's colleges.</p>
<p>Note that there are only ~120 merit scholarships (100 of these are $10,000/year awards; 20 of these pay full tuition), and since more than 3000 students are accepted, this is only about 3% of total applicants. These are also usually only given to students who would normally go to colleges such as Harvard, and who go there even after the merit scholarship is received.</p>
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That's very misleading. Go through Chicago's forum here and you'll see the number of complaints. Note that there are only ~120 merit scholarships, and since more than 3000 students are accepted, this is only about 3% of total applicants.
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</p>
<p>forum evidence is anecdotal, meeting 100% of demonstrated need is meeting 100% of demonstrated need.</p>
<p>120 merit scholarships is 10% of the incoming class!</p>
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forum evidence is anecdotal, meeting 100% of demonstrated need is meeting 100% of demonstrated need.
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</p>
<p>As I said in my previous post's edit, Chicago's standards must be different from the rest of the nation. And it's not just the forum; Chicago has always had a reputation for giving less than substantial financial aid.</p>
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120 merit scholarships is 10% of the incoming class!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, it's not. Merit Scholarships are given to students who would normally go to other elite colleges to try to lure them to go to Chicago. I don't know what the yield rates are on them, but I'm assume that it's less than 50%. If a recipient of a merit scholarship chooses to go to another school, then that merit scholarship is not given to another student.</p>
<p><a href="http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=444%5B/url%5D">http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=444</a></p>
<p>100 merit scholarships are given out, 20 of them are full tuition, that's still over 8% of the incoming class.</p>
<p>i'm not sure exactly what you're trying to argue though... chicago's yield is substantially lower than other peer schools. there is no other explanation than the fact that it loses many cross-admit battles, i don't know why you are arguing with this assertion..</p>
<p>the low yield is exacerbated by the fact that other schools we could compare it to (brown, northwestern, cornell) do not even offer merit aid.</p>
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100 merit scholarships are given out, 20 of them are full tuition, that's still over 8% of the incoming class.
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</p>
<p>Like I said earlier, that's not the case. Merit scholarships are given to accepted applicants UNLIKELY to attend the University. The merit scholarships are given particularly to lure the better students to Chicago over other elite universities. That means that although some of the merit scholarship recipients will go to Chicago, the majority of them won't.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i'm not sure exactly what you're trying to argue though... chicago's yield is substantially lower than other peer schools. there is no other explanation than the fact that it loses many cross-admit battles, i don't know why you are arguing with this assertion..
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm sure Chicago's yield rate is partially due to losing cross-admit battles, but I think a decent amount is also due to the fact that Chicago's financial aid just does not please many accepted students nor their families. I don't have any evidence to this hypothesis (other than the experiences of myself and my friends), and I don't think any evidence is available here for my argument unless other Chicago acceptances comment here. (Thus I cannot continue to argue my point unless others step up and assist me.)</p>
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the low yield is exacerbated by the fact that other schools we could compare it to (brown, northwestern, cornell) do not even offer merit aid.
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</p>
<p>I don't see how that's relevant. Only ~3-4% of accepted students receive merit aid. That's hardly a significant figure.</p>
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Like I said earlier, that's not the case.
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<p>read the article i linked to! that is the case!</p>
<p>"Around 100 University Scholarships are given out each year, and they cover around a third of tuition."</p>
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I don't think any evidence is available here for my argument unless other Chicago acceptances comment here.
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</p>
<p>it would all still be anecdotal, the only official "evidence" is chicago's pledge to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need.</p>
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I don't see how that's relevant. Only ~3-4% of accepted students receive merit aid. That's hardly a significant figure.
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</p>
<p>3-4% difference when discussing acceptance rates is pretty significant when you are talking about an elite school, it's a large proportion. chicago's jump from 15 to 9 in the rankings was a result of extremely small changes in data reporting (something like 4% more classes under 20 and a minor change in the way they reported alumni giving)</p>
<p>
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read the article i linked to! that is the case!
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</p>
<p>Let's get this straight. 120 merit scholarships are offered, not handed out, and these are offered to the 3000 or so students who are admitted. If a student who is offered a scholarship does not accept this scholarship, the scholarship is not given to another student. That means that if 50% of merit aid recipients accept the award (the actual yield is probably lower, for reasons I have already given), 60 incoming freshman will be given merit awards, which is 5% of the incoming class. It is not a proper conclusion to say that 120 incoming students will receive merit aid.</p>
<p>
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the only official "evidence" is chicago's pledge to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need.
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</p>
<p>As I have stated previously, Chicago does not abide by EFC guidelines, particularly when dealing with divorced parents. So what is the national standard for "demonstrated financial need"? If there were a standard, it would most likely be based on the EFC, wouldn't it? If there is another standard, let me know.</p>
<p>This is not a rhetorical question, and I'm sure there's an answer out there (perhaps you know).</p>
<p>EDIT: Moreover, how does one confirm that a college, even if they PLEDGE to cover 100% of demonstrated financial need under a national standard, indeed does cover such? Is there some kind of submission to "prove" this? To the government? I doubt it. It's more than likely a claim that a college does not need to back up because it goes unquestioned.</p>
<p>==</p>
<p>By the way, 3-4% may be a significant difference in rankings, but it isn't relevant to the discussion, as a yield rate of 33% in comparison with 37% really isn't that significant.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Let's get this straight. 120 merit scholarships are offered, not handed out,
[/quote]
straight from the website: "Around 100 University Scholarships are given out each year" god damn give it a rest.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's more than likely a claim that a college does not need to back up because it goes unquestioned.
[/quote]
you're right, The University of Chicago is probably lying. ::sarcasm::</p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=319627&page=5&highlight=merit+scholarships%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=319627&page=5&highlight=merit+scholarships</a></p>
<p>First post, corranged. The wording used on the Chicago website is poor. Common sense would lead you to the conclusion that Chicago wouldn't hand down these scholarships to just any other students after being rejected by a more worthy applicant. That would require a whole new scholarship committee meeting, etc. What university would do this?</p>
<p>
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you're right, The University of Chicago is probably lying. ::sarcasm::
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Prove that they aren't. I'm serious. How the hell do you prove that you cover 100% of demonstrated need? And how do you even define 100% of demonstrated need? I'm not in the mood for your sarcasm. I'm asking a serious question and I expect a serious answer. If you can't answer, then don't reply.</p>
<p>phuriku> elsifjdl is being sarcastic when he says the're lying. I think</p>
<p>I'd like a source on the Michigan acceptance being as low as 46% this year. I believe it will be higher.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Common sense would lead you to the conclusion that Chicago wouldn't hand down these scholarships to just any other students after being rejected by a more worthy applicant.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't hand out scholarships at Chicago, but I know at other places "refused" scholarships are, indeed, awarded to an alternate. Endowed scholarships, for example, may be meant to be given to a recipient or group of recipients each year. They don't want to revert the unused scholarship back into the endowment--they want to use it as it was intended, to support a new incoming student.</p>
<p>The concept of "more worthy" may not entirely fit, as the difference between the person first offered the scholarship and the next alternate (or two or three) may be very fine indeed. When I worked in admissions it was sometimes agonizing to choose between top candidates for awards.</p>
<p>In the interest of full disclosure . . . when I went to college I got a juicy scholarship. I was thrilled to have been "chosen." I found out years later that I was their 3rd choice and only got the thing because the other two people said no. So much for ego! LOL</p>
<p>Phuriku my son tells me the Chicago facebook for accepted students had quite a number of kids who had to go elsewhere because of money. I certainly know that when that unnamed donor gave 100 million a lot of people were saying that it would be a huge help.</p>
<p>SoAuthetic, Elsifjdl honestly does believe(in X-Files fashion) that Chicago is full of liars. He says it as often as he can.</p>
<p>"SoAuthetic, Elsifjdl honestly does believe(in X-Files fashion) that Chicago is full of liars. He says it as often as he can."</p>
<p>Then I don't understand why he'll put ::sarcasm:: at the end. Unless he's refering it to the liars rather than his words</p>
<p>I believe he misused ::sarcasm::. For fun try asking him what he thinks about Chicago's USNews rankings. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
forum evidence is anecdotal, meeting 100% of demonstrated need is meeting 100% of demonstrated need.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>All evidence in this case will be anecdotal. Duh.</p>
<p>I would have to say phuriku won this sparring match against elsijfdl. Take it from a poster who knows. Welcome back phuriku.</p>
<p>
[quote]
First post, corranged.
[/quote]
right, use an uncited, anonymous internet poster as your source of evidence.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Prove that they aren't.
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</p>
<p>ok, at the same time i'll prove that the SAT scores posted are true, that NMS numbers listed on their website are true, that the acceptance rate they posted is accurate. You don't operate from a position where you have to "prove" the information reported by a university.</p>
<p>In fact, maybe you are an international student and your judicial perspective is different, but here in the United States of America we operate from the assumed standard of "innocent until proven guilty," and it's a pretty strong standard because it's the same one used by the United Nations ICJ and the ICC for all international disputes.</p>
<p>Chicago says it meets 100% of financial need, that's the same policy statement adopted by every top school. your argument is that they're lying, and after providing documentation as to their policy statement, your rebuttal is: "they're still lying." Ok.</p>
<p>The whole point of this argument, anyway, was that Chicago loses a lot of cross-admit battles, more than its peer schools, the amount of merit aid handed out was just an exacerbating factor in this argument, as hardly any of the schools it competes with even offer merit aid (only duke and washu in the top 15).</p>