<p>Forgive my ignorance but don’t the drugs that ADD/ADHD kids take give them focus? Isn’t that the point of the drugs? If they are on drugs what does the extra time do other than give a normal speed reader or a already good math student extra time to check answers etc.? I’m genuinely interested. I was surprised that my son would take the all sections with extra time. He would not typically need it for the math section since there isn’t a alot of reading per se. Seems to me that the psychiatrist medication recommendations would be incorporated into the evaluations that are done which are reported to the ACT.</p>
<p>My very bright LD child doesn’t have ADHD but gets extra time because of his processing issues. He uses it on tests in class and has extra time on the SAT and PSAT. I don’t think we have applied to ACT yet-- need to ask his guidance counselor about that. He is at a private school with a high number of LD kids,so they are pros at this.</p>
<p>Our neighborhood high school, on the other hands, indicated that they thought it would be impossible to get accommodations, that they rarely have had success. Because it is on the block, most kids can probably finish tests etc and aren’t using the accommodation on a day to day basis.</p>
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<p>Mom, there are degrees of ADD and of ADHD. And with the H component in particular, it’s difficult to impossible for some students even to be focused enough to begin a test without meds; it doesn’t mean that the drug “cures” or prevents the brain (as opposed to the body as well) from periodically disorganizing data. Without the drugs there is compulsive physical movement as well (for those with hyperactivity), and even greater challenge with focus, but it does not mean that meds create normal processing in the student.</p>
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<p>Math is also a reading skill – even when it’s “just” computation, not to mention the word problems themselves.</p>
<p>Interesting I don’t have any familiarity with what the “drugs” are supposed to do. I would not have associated “processing speed” with ADD or ADHD, but I understand processing speed as it is a component of the testing my son has gone through every three years or so.</p>
<p>Yes, true regarding math, and he would struggle with standardized tests comprised solely of word or story problems and timed, but the ACT math doesn’t have lengthy reading sections. Like many dyslexics he ultimately did learn how to read just not with speed or efficiency. He does books on tape, etc. when there is not enough time to read at the speed necessary and could avail himself of a “reader” within the terms of the IEP, but I was always curious to see how far he would progress on his own and he seems to retain what he has read himself better than when things are read out loud and retention is such a huge part of K-12. </p>
<p>Lastminutemom…if your kiddo is going to take the ACT the school will most likely apply using the IEP and testing so talk to them about timing. In our case my son will take it in a different setting and time than our local national test dates. For the state required one he took it at the same time in a different room with a different Procter.</p>
<p>If these kids, for whatever reason, can’t read or process quickly enough, then how does it help them to get extra time? Of course it gives them the opportunity to get a higher score, but if they have a LD, it’s not like they can have extra time on everything forever. If their higher SAT/ACT score gets them into a college more rigorous than they would have gotten into without accommodation, and there is, say, 40 hours of work for a regular kid, won’t they need 60-70 hours to do the same work? Wouldn’t it make more sense to put them in a school where other kids are at their same level, whether it is due to intelligence, work ethic, or a LD? I mean eventually, they’re going to have a job, and having a LD isn’t an excuse for needing extra time on work, correct? Otherwise, a company wouldn’t be able to function at full capacity. </p>
<p>I’m truly curious about this, forgive my ignorance.</p>
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[quoteIf these kids, for whatever reason, can’t read or process quickly enough, then how does it help them to get extra time? Of course it gives them the opportunity to get a higher score, but if they have a LD, it’s not like they can have extra time on everything forever.
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<p>Well…if…you…read…slowly…than…it…takes…you…twice…as…long…to…read…all…the…homework…and…it…doen’t…mean…you’ll…get…a…higher…score…just…that…you’ll…probably…get…the…score…you…would…have…gotten…if…you…read…at…a…normal…speed…on…a…timed…test…understand?</p>
<p>I believe I can speak from experience on this subject. We have completed the application process for both SAT and ACT testing accommodations for our son, who was originally diagnosed at age 8 (by a specialist in this field, PhD, not a pediatrician) and has since been reevaluated three times at a cost of around $2000 each time. Obtaining the extra time and typing accommodations was difficult with College Board, and we are still working with ACT. My point is that this process was difficult even with 10 years of repeated documentation from highly qualified specialists, years of IEPs and then 504 accommodations in effect with the school, medical records including medication and occupational therapy, and the full support and assistance of the school administration. In fact, ACT refuses to allow him to type his essay even though he is physically incapable of handwriting past the 7-minute mark, and is on the record as typing any written output 3 sentences or longer since the third grade.</p>
<p>I would also like to offer this insight after more than 25 years in the news business: these kind of poorly researched and/or supported sensationalist stories have become commonplace in the age of dwindling readership. </p>
<p>Last, on a personal note, I appreciate every single comment posted from those of you who offer reason, logic and compassion on such a hot-button topic. Those of us who are parents of bright, motivated students with disabilities thank you for your calm and thoughtful moderation.</p>
<p>Momofthreeboys, there are other disabilities besides ADD/ADHD that are reasons to request accomodations on standardized tests. Some of them have no medication treatments available. Examples would be a non-verbal learning disability or dyslexia.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys, of course I understand that they read more slowly (and I get that it’s NOT their fault, and that slow reading doesn’t indicate their intelligence level). But what I mean is that aren’t they going to deal with the same thing for the rest of their life? In college, they will continue to read the same way, need more time to do assignments, etc.</p>
<p>^ Yes, they need more time to perform brilliantly (if they have an especially high IQ and have managed through their high school years to demonstrate awesome persistence and creativity in maintaining brilliant performance despite handicaps out of their control).</p>
<p>And the point of your question is?</p>
<p>If they can barely do the work at that college, the chances are incredibly slim (unless they are Hooked applicants) that they will be admitted. Admissions to demanding institutions are granted to the already accomplished – both those challenged and those less challenged.</p>
<p>Sometimes the speed is not that significant in itself. For instance, if the processing speed is average. The problem arises in a case where the cognitive ability is very high, but the processing speed is only average. This causes cognitive dissonance and contributes to the problem focusing. It can be quite complicated. In the real world, this may only result in requiring a few extra minutes on a particular task. It depends on the task. It is not necessarily across the board (extra time required) or with every subject. Also a student like this may read quite fast, but compute or complete other thought processes at an average speed.</p>
<p>alwaysleah,</p>
<p>Colleges give accommodations on tests. And, yes, a kid with an ld might spend 5 hours doing the homework or writing the paper versus 3-- so? Homework isn’t timed.</p>
<p>Epiphany, I was just wondering if the extra time helped the kids or put them on a situation where they are over their heads. </p>
<p>Sounds like its the former. Thanks for answering!</p>
<p>@2collegewego: The real world is timed depending on your field. Lawyers, engineers, consultants, and accountants work in billable hours.</p>
<p>Yes intparent, my question was mostly about disorders that are treated with medication and if that medication removed the obstacle leading to accommodations.</p>
<p>Yes alwaysleah they do deal with this all their lives. Fortunately most people can adjust their schedules so they can find the extra time needed to read whatever they need to read (or comphrehend) for their job etc. A timed test is well…timed. Believe me you don’t magically go from a 21 to a 34 with an extra half hour or whatever it is but you might get a couple more points because you can get through a couple more problems. Most salaried people can’t get all their work done from 8-5 and read e-mails, periodicals, etc that flow in and spend time at night catching up so typically you might not even be aware of which of your associates might be slow readers unless you were in a meeting and someone specifically asked you to review something and discuss…and then you are waiting for the slow reader to finish. Just like someone with a physical handicap someone with LDs have coping methods (like doubling the time they allow in their schedule for homework). And that is the purpose of extra time…to allow slow readers and whatever LD someone has the compensation they practice everyday in real life. My third son spends close to double the time on his homework (and he’s a three season athlete) than his older brothers who can read material at least twice as fast. The need for accommodations won’t magically disappear when these kids land in college. They will still need to probably spend more physical hours studying etc. etc. but most have lived with their limitations for a long time and aren’t going to put together a schedule they can’t cope with. They’ve been coping since a very early age. They “know” instinctively how to organize their schedules and classes. Just like a wheelchair bound kid isn’t going into a 4th floor of a dorm without an elevator. I’m actually an advocate for transparency and more rigor in the giving of accommodations. Any kind of impropriety or gaming if it actually exists hurts the kids that need it the most. And extra time doesn’t “help” kids whose issue isn’t helped by “extra time” and as far as kids who game the system, they still have to get through college and sometimes it’s the tortoise and the hare…know what I mean?</p>
<p>That makes a lot of sense. I had always wondered about the extra time. It sounds like it is well deserved and appropriately useful.</p>
<p>Mater$, do you think that attorneys without lds all take the same amount of time to do work? That’s an interesting theory but not true. I remember once hiring (and firing) an attorney for a rather easy case because she took forever-- and billed for it too. She had no lds, just wasn’t very experienced in this type of case. Another attorney with more experience was able to bill for a fraction of the hours. His hourly rate was a lot more-- but cost less in the end. Even then, not all legal work that is billed necessarily involves the areas of disability. Attorneys bill for hours on the telephone, in court, etc. </p>
<p>Lots of jobs don’t involve billing according to actual time and people choose careers that capitalize on their strengths. However, even people who dno’t have disabilities do different things at different rates and to different abilities. For example, a person could have an ld that makes him/her a slow reader, but he/she may be more perceptive and able to come up with an argument or catch a problem with a contract that someone else may not have caught.</p>
<p>The question of billable hours is an interesting one. The years I worked in an industry that had billable hours you did have some speedy people and some not so speedy people but client billings were typically adjusted…meaning all clients were treated pretty evenly based on the parameters of the job. If Speedy Sue did the work the invoice might be greater than actual billable hours and if Pokey Pete did the job the client’s bill might be adjusted down. And there were times when Speedy Sue was alittle too speedy and of course times when Pokey Pete was alittle too slow but in general we didn’t hire employees that hindered the system to any damaging extent. It’s interesting to think that there are industries where clients are billed directly on the billable hours as reported by the employee without review or equalization of some sort.</p>
<p>As an SAT/ACT tutor who specializes in working with ADHD/LD kids, I find this type of article so frustrating. I provide test accommodations consulting, too, and despite the claims in this article, the ACT has become rather chintzy with giving accommodations, and in some ways, they’re more difficult than the SAT now since they strongly prefer seeing an IEP/504 plan in place for at least three years in school. The ACT also wants to see text book diagnoses on the application, so students with a “slow processing speed” diagnosis who don’t meet criteria for ADHD are likely to be turned down. The GAO recently released a report stating that the testing companies are being too stringent. If you’re at all interested, the link is here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/587367.pdf[/url]”>http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/587367.pdf</a></p>
<p>For rampant ADHD cheating to occur, there has to be a lot of complicity from the schools. I can see that influential parents might be able to get it done, but it requires a lot of planning for it to happen. Also, no one has brought up the fact that the ACT may be automatically passing through students receiving school accommodations because these were paid for by the state as part of the “Prairie State Exam.” Some of those students might not fare as well in getting accommodations if they were applying as part of the general pool. The application for accommodation must include the specific test date in question, so the ACT certainly knows these are Prairie State students. No proof of anything there, but it’s a thought. As someone noted, the schools want students to do well so it’s in their interest to have students given accommodations.</p>
<p>I completely agree that the parents are at fault here if there is any cheating going on (and I’m sure there is some going on, although it’s hard to say how much). The recent Long Island SAT cheating scandal was equally disturbing since clearly the parents were paying for the cheating “services.” But there will always be cheaters out there of all ages. I just hate that the cheating few are causing trouble for the legitimate many.</p>
<p>As for some of the other comments, it is not at all unusual for a student to be newly diagnosed with a legitimate learning disability in high school. Intelligent kids may get by on their brains for many years, especially if they are attending small and/or private schools. It’s further not unusual for a student/parent to not seek school accommodations despite a diagnosis because of the stigma involved, then realize later in high school that maybe he/she really should try to get some extra help. Finally, schools are not necessarily cooperative when it comes to developing IEP/504 plans for students with thoroughly documented disabilities. Small and/or private schools are likely to see an LD student as an expensive hassle and may not work with the student/parents if the kid has been passing (if not excelling in) his classes to that point. Without an IEP/504 in place, the chances of a kid getting ACT accommodations are slim.</p>
<p>The most distressing part of this for me is that clearly low-income kids aren’t getting the assistance they need. The process can be very expensive, and even good insurance (as someone mentioned) will rarely pay for ADHD or LD testing alone (it’s a gray area if there are psychiatric issues as well, in which case insurance MAY pay for testing). LD’s don’t meet the “medical necessity” standard and insurance companies leave it to the schools to provide testing. Of course, that never happens for many, many kids. If they’re lucky, they have parents who can afford to pay for testing out of pocket, but obviously many don’t have that luxury.</p>
<p>I understand that ethical parents of typical kids want accommodations to be as tightly regulated as possible. They’re playing by the rules, after all. But try to keep in mind that accommodations are by and large used by students who legitimately need them. ADHD diagnosis rates have skyrocketed in the last ten years. The numbers probably are inflated by inappropriate diagnosis, but a lot of the change has to be attributed to the fact that more kids who have the disorder are actually getting tested. In affluent districts where parents can afford testing, the numbers of legitimately diagnosed students will certainly be higher. The article is written to make us think that a large percentage of the kids getting accommodations is due to cheating, but I don’t see how that can really be the case. Just my two cents.</p>
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<p>Fair question, Leah. 
Yes, it’s the former (generally). Again, keep in mind that those with severe (and/or multiple) LD’s are usually not competitive for top 25 or even top 50 colleges, and are often not even equipped to score respectably on the ACT/SAT, including with professional exam prep programs. I had such a student a few years ago. She knew intuitively that she belonged not at a top tier, but at a very LD-friendly small private college with resources for her.</p>
<p>Then there are those of us (probably on this thread, and certainly lurking!) who have begged our LD sons and daughters to enroll in college classes which they can handle “easily” (fat chance), agree to their legitimate accommodations in h.s. (fatter chance), and to avail themselves of tutoring centers in their colleges (fattest chance). Determination is apparently a hard thing to break. I used to think it was a matter of pride/vanity. Now I realize it’s something else entirely:</p>
<p>Just as the above-referenced student intuitively knew where she belonged, the determination of a very bright LD student is based on similar intuitive knowledge of innate capability and the will to overcome cognitive obstacles to get there. :)</p>