<p>My friend got a 30. He frequently brags to others about his score. I think I'm the only one who know that he was granted extended time because of his "dyslexia", which he is very sensitive about. Do you think that I should own him the next time I hear him boasting in his typical annoying fashion. Extended time is cheating, and I think he would have been lucky to crack a 22 with normal time constaints. The is BS!</p>
<p>well, at least you dont have to live with dyslexia....</p>
<p>I qualified for extended time, more frequent breaks, and extended breaks (from a physical disability, not a mental one), and I refused them all. I didn't want to know that the only reason I did well was because I had more time than everyone else (I really think that ANYONE could get a 36 on the ACT with enough time). I feel good about my decision. :)</p>
<p>And what was your score? Do you believe it was reflective of your work in school?</p>
<p>I'm granted 50% extended time because I have information processing issues due to vision problems and a learning disability. In addition, I answer the questions directly in the test booklet due to the vision issue that occurs when my eyes move between two pieces of paper or sets of information. (Not dyslexia) I have rejected offers for accommodations in the past from other things, including note takers, 100% extra time and a computer for writing. All of these I TURNED DOWN. I only took what I believed was the bare minimum I needed, being the 50% extra time and taking my answers in the book instead of bubbling in.</p>
<p>Of course, these accommodations look hugely unfair to other students, but they are necessary to demonstrate INTELLECTUAL ABILITY! Because of this, giving extended time would have little effect on other student's scores because they simply don't know the answer. Disabled persons, however, know what they need to do, but because of their processing issues would never even reach many questions without their accommodations.</p>
<p>If I wasn't given accommodations, my tests would always have some 10-20 answers blank and others wrong because of extreme rushing. (Anyone up for finishing each problem in 10 seconds in a dire attempt to finish the test?)</p>
<p>Also, students with disabilities are placed within the national statistics ACT makes of each graduating class and therefore our scores are equal to yours. He has every right to brag. If anything, anyone lower than a 30 should be ashamed for scoring lower than someone who is disabled and it just shows how horrible the public school system is becoming in this country. I got a 30 as well, and I congratulate him on it.</p>
<p>Well I don't think anyone "should" really be able to brag at all, no matter what the circumstances. If he is being a jerk about his scores, you should definitely "own" him about bragging, but not about having dyslexia...that would be mean. And I don't agree with your statement "extended time is cheating". Though I know people that over-exaggerate their ADD or ADHD that may or may not exist, there are definitely some people that definitely need the extra time to be tested at the same standards that those without disability are held to.</p>
<p>Listen, this is where my problem lies: People should not be able to get special treatment because of their disabilities on TESTS (on schoolwork, that's fine, but not standardized tests). This is the reason for my thinking... What if said person wanted to become a doctor? They could receive all of the assistance that they wanted with schoolwork to put them "on par," they could have special accommodations on the MCAT, and then they would be accepted into medical school. What happens when they are actually practicing as a physician? Will their patients understand if they write down 100g of Morphine instead of 10mg, an overdose that would kill them? Sure, once everything is all evened out and special circumstances are taken into consideration and scaled, the person may be on par with everyone else, but you can't misrepresent yourself as being the same as everyone else when in fact, you're not the same UNLESS YOU HAVE ALTERATIONS MADE. Unfortunately, however, the majority of the real world does not give these accommodations, and quite frankly, it can be dangerous to portray yourself as one thing when you are under certain adapted circumstances, and actually be (un)able to function in the real world as another.</p>
<p>To add:</p>
<p>A friend of mine, who is dyslexic, went to school to become a nurse. All throughout high school and college, she was given special accommodations, her mother wrote all of her homework assignments for her, etc. Now, she can't even function and she had to quit her job. She got there on lies and accommodations that just can't be emulated in reality.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that we should be tested under the same circumstances as everyone else. The unfortunate truth is that no one will be there to hold your hand for the rest of your life, write your papers, take your test, or give you extended time.</p>
<p>If you score an 18 on the test under normal conditions, then that means that you are able to handle the work of a college that has an average ACT score of 18. If you are a C or D student without any special help, you should pick an occupation that is able to be completed by a C or D student.</p>
<p>good point SillBill...</p>
<p>but sillbill, you can still go to a crappy med school for "C or D" students and still become a doctor. </p>
<p>i feel like your argument has no substance at all. you think that because you are dyslexic you cant succeed in society? just read this webpage: Famous</a> People with the Gift of Dyslexia
those people definitely did NOT let dyslexia stand in their way. having a disability shows the strength of a person; how they can push and prevail to defeat it</p>
<p>a more controversial accomodation is when students are allowed to use their "translators" on math tests because of "language barriers", even though the tests use the same wording as the teacher has been using everyday in class. even on math tests that dont allow calculators, these "translators" have full functioning calculators on them, but the students still push to use them. now how is that fair?</p>
<p>
[quote]
but sillbill, you can still go to a crappy med school for "C or D" students and still become a doctor.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's my point. If they were accepted at a foreign medical school (let's be honest here, no US medical school really accepts anyone with a below 3.0 GPA, maybe a DO school would go as low as a 2.8, but not an MD, just go to SDN forums and read for yourself), and they managed to graduate on their own, they would be the same caliber of doctor the the rest of the students there were. I, for one, would NOT want a physician or surgeon who went to Middle Of Nowhere Medical School in the outskirts of Brazil, where they're not even eligible to practice medicine in the United States. Even then, I doubt that the C or D student would pass the medical boards required to practice in the United States. In fact, the United States's medical program is basically designed to be so rigorous that none of these C or D students get through -- the reason being that it is harmful to the patients.</p>
<p>This is coming from someone who IS disabled! I wanted to be a surgeon, but due to neuropathic reasons completely beyond my control, I cannot. I couldn't hold a scalpel steadily, and I could slip in the midst of surgery and slice their aorta. I wouldn't do that to one of my patients. Instead, I have set my sights on Radiology -- a practice that has little, if any, patient contact and a twitch of the hand will not cause any repercussions. I wouldn't say, "It's not fair that my nerves are screwed up! I want accommodations!" and expect someone else to do the cutting for me while I directed them (an example of what an accommodation in this circumstance may consist of), and then expect to operate on my own in the real world once I passed the tests with these special arrangements. </p>
<p>If you can't pass the tests and do the work without accommodations, how do you expect to function in reality when there is no one there to help you out? Just as I would not operate on someone with my involuntarily spastic hands, I wouldn't think that a dyslexic person would want to treat patients when correct medication names, dosages, names of anatomical parts, diseases, etc. play such an integral role in patient care. You need to realize that you have to work with the cards you were dealt. If that means that you can't do something that would endanger someone else's life, you shouldn't.</p>
<p>Let me add that I do not think that allowing extended time to students with “disabilities”, however real or unreal they may be, is a bad thing. The part that upsets me is that the ACT and SAT do not reveal who was given extended time, and hence the students with disabilities are actually rewarded for their misfortune. This was not always the case. The ACT and SAT used to notify colleges, saying that “this test was taken with extended time” (or something to that effect), but unfortunatly, the polictally correct police bused up that operation a few years ago. This practice is like basing the amount of time one is alotted on IQ, and then not telling colleges that the people with really high IQs were only given 20 mintues on each test.</p>
<p>Bottom line: Allowing unnoted extended time dilutes the value of everybody's score.</p>
<p>unless you have a serious disability, the reading should always be a 36 if you have extended time. Other aspects are easier though. Unlimited time on the SAT i can see. On the ACT, it seems like a free 30 and above</p>
<p>SillBill could not be more right.</p>
<p>dvm258 - first off the nat'l ACT average is 22, so don't belittle anyone under a 30. second, where does it stop, do runners with disabilities ask to start the marathon earlier, if you have a reading comprehension problem, should the passage be interpreted for you therefore giving you the edge, it goes on and on. what gets me the most is everyone wants to be considered equal and not draw attention to themselves whether it's a disability, race, religion, etc., but of course when it comes to their advantage that's a whole other story. if i learned nothing else from the college application process, i have learned how unfair it is. taking up a seat because you can hit a ball but can't compete in the classroom, or because the color of your skin is different than the average applicant, or you got extra treatment that once you are in the real world won't longer be an option, are you really doing yourself or anyone a justice if they get accepted to a difficult institution and cannot keep up!</p>
<p>Oh boy! I think I'm going to start a list:</p>
<p>College Confidential Posters Who Discourage Reasonable Accommodations:</p>
<p>Jessaly
FLBoy (See <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-florida/400121-disability-checkbox.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-florida/400121-disability-checkbox.html</a>)
SillBill (Sorry, I debated for minutes whether or not you made the list)</p>
<p>The point is that the reasons for accommodations are for EDUCATION. That is why it is called a learning disability. Lets face it, many disabilities require accommodations but are very different in nature. ADD, Dyslexia, and High-functioning Autism are all very different disabilities. You can't go around in an educational setting and say that the ADD and Autistic kids get accommodations but the dyslexic doesn't because it could impact his professional life.</p>
<p>Jessaly also greatly misunderstands the nature of the accommodations given by the SAT and ACT. Test supervisors won't "interpret the passage" for you! If you really need to see examples, go here:</p>
<p>Services</a> for Students with Disabilities -- Accommodations</p>
<p>I know the national ACT average is 22. Of course, there are also some extenuating circumstances for some students such as having to work to supplement their family's income. My point is off topic here, but the public school system in the U.S. is a mess and an international disgrace. A 22 in this country would probably be something around a 13 or 14 if we were standardized against other developed nations. It has become so bad over the years that the college board has had to "recenter" the SAT scores recently to maintain the bell curve. (It was moving too far to the left) On average, calculations done by the college board have found that any score before the recentering done in the 1990's is actually about 100 points lower than what it would be considered today. Our students are getting dumber and its all because of state standardized tests and the rush to diagnose any problem child with ADD and get them on medication immediately. Trust me, I have seen it myself. Not only that, I have GONE THROUGH that myself in the public system before being moved to my private school.</p>
<p>It is true that some accommodations are being given that shouldn't be. I believe it is the public school system doing so to improve their statistics, at least here in Florida.</p>
<p>I know I just rambled a lot so here's the summary:</p>
<p>Some learning disabilities impact professional life and some don't. So how do you decide who will get accommodations? The answer is that you don't.</p>
<p>Well, I don't even believe that ADHD is really the overly prevalent disorder it's made out to be... I don't think 90% of cases actually have it.</p>
<p>But that's a completely different story. </p>
<p>To me STANDARDIZED TESTING means STANDARDIZED CONDITIONS... something that's obviously not happening. Maybe for certain physical conditions, i.e., you can't hold your bladder for more than 5 minutes, but these pseudo-concentration disorders: please.</p>
<p>This is just my opinion, and while I've chatted with several people in medicine, I've done no research, so I am not qualified to say one way or the other. </p>
<p>But like every good American, I can state an opinion.</p>
<p>You should not brag if you do well.</p>
<p>Do colleges see you got special conditions?</p>
<p>well brain spect scans do show underactivity when called to concentration need in ADD/ADHD a dopamine deficit. So not having a disability myself and I am thankful I do not, however, MY opinion is that be grateful you don't need accomodation.</p>
<p>Brain</a> SPECT Imaging/Scans,ADD,ADHD,Depression,Tests,Symptoms,Diagnosis,Treatments, Amen Clinics</p>
<p>I have a few friends that are truly smart yet have either ADD or eye tracking problems, and it is not an issue until they get stressed, and this type of testing brings on the stress that it is not easy for them to do well. Did they do better with accomodation, who knows, they surely did not have an easy time taking these tests even with the extra time.</p>
<p>Of course some people do not perform well under stress. Why should they get accomodations? That's a flaw that they have to learn to overcome, just like some are scared of public speaking and need to overcome that. If we give them accomodations to reduce stress levels so they do not freak out, they will never learn to keep calm under pressure. Of course brain scans of their neural activity will show marked differences from 'normal' brains. Brain scans reflect how we behave. Just because a brain scan shows somebody is worse at something does not mean accomodations are in order.</p>
<p>And what is up with all of these weird pseudo-psychiatric disorders?</p>
<p>like "I have this special eye-processing-coordination-aweasdfasdrhaeru disorder where I read one page and then another page and my eyes skip over the spine of the book and I have severe difficulties understanding the middle 34% of text ..."</p>
<p>I mean, I think the second post in this thread was a kid who had some disorder that took a paragraph to describe, it sounded like the above ^^^</p>
<p>How can those things be disorders? You're just not good at processing then.. okay.. we can't all be good at everything...</p>
<p>^^ hahahaha!!! I had a song stuck in my head ("Change Is Gonna Come" by Sam Cooke) while I was taking the test, and I was honest-to-God distracted the entire time, especially during the reading and science sections. I have that problem where sometimes I can't stop repeating a song over and over in my head, and I know for a FACT that it affected my score... Do you think that they would see that as a disability? If I found an impressionable enough psychiatrist to diagnose me with ADHD or some other "unestablished" song-related concentration disorder, could they perhaps re-score my test, using a different scale to take my disability into account?</p>
<p>im with sillbill and adamjaz. i've never bought into that phrase "oh, i dont test well." i think america is obsessed with political correctness and has taken things too far. this is the perfect example. </p>
<p>i know someone who took the PSAT as a sophomore and got a 160. he was then "diagnosed" with a learning disability and granted extra time. as a junior, he took the PSAT again and got a 220. any rational person can see that he clearly did not get 60 points smarter in just 1 year. it was unfair.</p>