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<p>I’m laughing because this is so unbelievably true. It is probably why my son is a much, much better athlete than his brothers…that same will, drive and determination manifests itself in other aspects…which can be aggravating and less frequently amusing. I remember when he was 9 and wanted to learn how to play golf. He wouldn’t hit golf balls for an hour at the range…he’d hit golf balls for hours and hours.</p>
<p>This:</p>
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<p>There’s an exponential jump in the volume of reading required in high school vs. previously. The need to keep up (the time element) is exacerbated in the LD student, not only because of the processing issues, but because individualized strategies (addressing those issues) require extra time as well. And depending on the LD manifestations, most of these students need to spend additional time reading, refreshing, reviewing – the kind of thing much less needed (and often ingeniously hidden) prior to h.s.</p>
<p>Regarding swans004 comments about publics vs. privates:
Because I have a high-functioning LD’er, I feel conflicted about these choices. She went to privates, until college. Like many of her type (ability level), she self-compensated and hid her dsabilities until they became apparent in Grade 9 Honors courses. (They surfaced intermiitently before then, but she “managed” those disabilities.) When her h.s. teachers began to notice her brain-freezes during testing, and the apparent disparity between ability and performance, they offered her accommodations even before her diagnoses, which she refused. As swans004 reports, the private had no in-house LD resources to speak of, and were not inclined to offer these officially in any case.</p>
<p>OTOH, I often wonder how she would be performing today in college without the rigor of those 4 h.s. years. It is/was nothing like the typical public high schools from where most of my students hail, at which insufficient writing assignments are demanded and not enough core courses are required (in all subjects) to prepare a student for university-level work. Would she have been better off with the IEP she deserved and would have qualified for, but with fewer demands on her intelligence and creative problem-solving (regarding her disability)? Since I’ve seen so many IEP’s, I question whether that would have been any kind of a “solution” for her. She had a choice to go to a respected arts public h.s. (which was also my choice for her), but she turned down that acceptance for the academic rigor of the private.</p>
<p>So what I will agree with, indirectly, is that a college that is not overtly LD-friendly (attracts those students, commits to them, has special tutoring for them, etc.) will only provide so many kinds of accommodations, and possibly it’s best that the most ambitious and capable students with LD’s attend the high school which will prepare them best for the level of college they have shown themselves capable of and willing to tackle.</p>
<p>? (just a thought)…</p>
<p>I was a student that got the additinal time on the ACT. Although i only used it when i took the test a second time. The first time i took it, i could not focus properly, nor work at the rate that was required for the test, thus i ended up near the last five minutes speeding through it with random answers.</p>
<p>The second time, I could take my own time and do it.</p>
<p>I have been diagnosed with ADHD among other things, medication does not work for me. I also freeze on tests and i cannot write very well. I thought when i took the test the first time that i could do it, but afterwards i realized that it was impossible.</p>
<p>All good points. No doubt this article got rational folks on CC talking about this issue. And as the OP, I knew that it potentially was a ‘hot button’ subject, with some people chastising me–mistakenly I might add–for not being sympathetic to LD students that can benefit from the extra time.</p>
<p>I was just making the point that being familiar with the socioeconomic makeup of these specific suburbs/districts that ranked high on the list, I know what money & prestige does to people. A student at one of these schools alluded to this kind of abuse in the article itself, albeit without attribution. And while there are undoubtedly more accurate diagnoses of LD in these districts because there is more money in the schools, and more parental money to fund these diagnoses, unfortunately there are many gamers of the system here as well.</p>
<p>Any way around this in the future? Probably not. The benefits of this program far outweigh any damage done by the abusers.</p>
<p>I read the article yesterday in the paper and wasn’t surprised by the schools mentioned. To be honest, I chalked it up to another form of college prep. The schools mentioned have affluent families that can shell out the dollars as well as the network to even know to do it in advance.</p>
<p>I guess what I was surprised about was the fact that the colleges are not aware what student had extra time. On one hand I can understand that this might negatively influence the student, however wouldn’t the condition come up within one of the recommendation or student essay already? </p>
<p>Personally, I would prefer some type of indication that goes with the score that it included additional time.</p>
<p>I never understand the point of gaming the college admissions system, in whatever form that takes. </p>
<p>For the people who really need accomodations for a disability, those accomodations serve to level the playing field a bit. The rest of this post does not pertain to those people with a true learning disability.</p>
<p>For the wealthy, connected, intelligent but somewhat morally corrupt parents who are looking for every advantage in the college admissions game, what is the point? The time, energy and money needed to buy a few extra points on an ACT or SAT score, whether through extreme tutoring (the kind that starts in middle school with private tutors and results in kids sitting in the orthodontist’s waiting room with vocabulary flash cards)* or shady LD diagnoses may serve to help a bit in college admissions, but what happens once the kid is in college?</p>
<p>The kids have to be able to handle the workload of the college they’ve gamed their way into, and after that they need to handle the workload of life. By working so hard to ace one test just to gain admission to a college that is more selective than the kid would have been admitted to on his own strengths aren’t the parents just setting their kids up for failure? Or is the disconnect between test scores and college success so wide that the test scores aren’t predictive of anything?</p>
<p>*Extreme tutoring for the SAT or ACT isnt morally corrupt, but it does seem to exist somewhere along that continuum of competitive parenting techniques that, taken to an extreme, result in LD diagnoses for the non-learning disabled.</p>
<p>Eastcoascrazy, yes, it can be extremely beneficial if your kid tests well and and is also able to benefit from the accommodations for SAT testing. I have seen a lot of awards and college acceptances due to the combo. Whether any of those kids should not have gotten the accommodations, is something I do not know. All I can say is that I know an awful lot of kids who get this accommodation. Yes, it does set the kid up for failure and goodly percentage of time, and I personally see it, but it does give the kid a boost and a chance to maybe succeed. Depending on the severity and nature of the disorder, some of these kids should not be going away to college or going to a non supportive setting for a while anyways, But parents want every single option and advantage for their kids. </p>
<p>The point of all of this is more options for the kids if the accommodations can raise the SAT score up and more scholarship money. Almost all merit aid hinges on test scores, and when it comes to males, in particular, not so great grades are often forgiven with high SAT scores. I have been watching this happen for over 15 years. </p>
<p>I can also tell you that I could have gotten a LDor ADHD designation for 4 out of 5 of my kids. The school infrastructure and my contacts with doctors is such that it would not have taken much to do so. However, I did not believe they fell into those categories despite exhibiting some symptoms, and those teachers and doctors that I trust the most felt the same way. FInding those to make the designation would have been absolutely no trouble at all.</p>
<p>Not referring to anyone in particular, as we all know there are any number of crooked doctors out there and I am sure many of us could name a few, but I always find it interesting how parents of kids with LDs will almost invariably tell you that it was a huge struggle to get the right diagnosis and how it took years to find the right doctor and be in the right place at the right time and to arrange the proper accommodations, whereas parents of kids without LDs will often go on about how easy it would be for them to get a diagnosis and accommodations if they wanted them. Which narrative is true? I think large generalizations are often made based on both highly contradictory narratives… they can’t <em>both</em> be representative of what’s really going on for most of the country right now.</p>
<p>Again, not about anybody in particular. This is just a general observation I have made over the years… as we all know, LD issues are of particular interest to me! Whenever this kind of a debate comes up, it is never long before the, “I don’t think my kid is LD, but I could get accommodations A, B, and C no problemo” argument comes up, which may very well be true in that particular case, but I still can’t help but wonder about that knowing how many warrior mothers there are out there fighting tooth and nail to get their legitimately disabled children the support they need. And knowing how often they fail. It’s a strange thing that’s happening here where some peoples experiences are so different from the droves of others.</p>
<p>I like the idea of just letting people take as long as they want. </p>
<p>I always finished standardized testing very quickly and hated having to sit around. I wish I could have just turned it in when I was done and I wish those who need extra time could get it. I’ve never understood the time limits. They just seem unfair to both groups of people- those who don’t need all that time and are forced to sit around bored and those who need extra time.</p>
<p>I agree with this writer in Chicago Tribune recently “Voice of the People”…“test scores are not valid if students who are not in special education are given accommodations. …only students who should receive this preferential treatment need to have an Individualized Education Program…shameful misuse of the federal Individuals with Disabilities Education Act which was written and intended to serve only those students who are truly handicapped.” In my child’s private school, students are getting well into the 30’s with accommodations. i know for a fact because they talk about it. Having 3 days to take the ACT, one student got a 31 and another received a 32 with a 36 in the reading while my child is not able to finish the math…how fair is this? Not!</p>
<p>The first time I heard about extra time allowed for testing was when s1 was a HS junior. His reading speed is painfully slow so I marched right into the GC’s office and asked how to get extra time for S1. She told me only kids who had been documented since 7th grade could get the extra time. </p>
<p>I let it go. When the ACT results came back the score was quite low. S2 is attending a small LAC and is having great success. If he had been allowed extra test time, he might have been accepted to a college where he would struggle or fail. (though i have heard that there are also some accommodations at the college level or test taking) These things have a way of working out.</p>
<p>What about the kids who just don’t test well? Most high-performing, non-learning disabled kids can prep for a test and do reasonably well on it. But there are others who, no matter what they do, walk into that test center and freeze up. They can be straight-A students who fly through their exams at school . . . but when it comes to standardized tests, they panic and the floor drops out from under them. That certainly seems to me to be a disability . . . so, should they get special accommodations?</p>
<p>One of my kids fits that pattern . . . and I’ve actually had an admissions officer inquire if there isn’t some kind of processing issue that might be the cause. And, to be honest, if I could get special accommodations for him, I’d do it in a heartbeat. But . . . if the only way the “disability” manifests is in an inability to take standardized tests, then where do you draw the line?</p>
<p>The student must be on an IEP or 504 Plan and there is extensive testing required to be placed on those. Diagnosed ADHD is an example. Do not need to be on IEP or 540 Plan since 7th grade to get ACT accommodations, but possibly 9th grade or so.</p>
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<p>I would take a hard look at the students grade history…is the student not testing well in classes in high school? So much of a high school GPA is predicated on homework, class discussion and a myriad of other things that often the grade can be still high because the mid-term and final don’t impact the whole GPA significant… but the mid-term and final test scores might tell the whole store -and if there are processing issues related to timed testing if the student consistently underscores compared to what might be expected based on the balance of what is happening in the high school classroom. You have to look at history not just one day and one test in my opinion. But, I think for any parent that suspects an LD, look at all the data points.</p>
<p>I think the thing that surprises me most is that all these kids in these affluent suburbs don’t mind being labeled as learning disabled which they would need to be to get documented accommodations. I know having an IEP and being treated differently has bothered my son greatly off and on through K-12. And I know that now in high school his friends give him crap sometimes. I just can’t imagine kids willingly going along with IEP meetings and advocating with teachers, testing separately or differently and all the being pulled from testing for days on end every couple years simply to get extra time on an ACT. Doesn’t make much sense.</p>
<p>At our small private school everyone knows each others business and the kids are accepting of each other so there is no stigma in having extra time on tests. I am frustrated because accommodations on the ACT for kids that have been diagnosed with a learning “disability”( 1 in 5 on north shore Chicago, are you kidding me) have artificially inflated the test scores for colleges…my d is stressed and feels less than…</p>
<p>Well, people who do that are in for a rude awakening when they go to college, especially if they go to particularly good schools. My experience was that too many people who were very intellectually gifted had a difficult time comprehending how someone could be similarly gifted and still have a learning disability… comments like “I don’t want the ■■■■■■ in my group” don’t go away in grade school. Even if they go to weird schools were everyone is supposedly mysteriously more accepting than… you know, the whole rest of the world… they won’t be in that isolated environment forever.</p>
<p>Kajon, Your counselor is wrong about the 7th grade and needs to get up to date. My S was diagnosed in spring of 10th grade and received accommodations in the fall for the ACT and a few months later for the SAT. SAT accommodations are not given until there has been an IEP in place for about 3 months and ACT may not require any time. They both require a professional diagnosis of a learning difference and recommendations for the accomodations. </p>
<p>My S was not disagnosed until his sophomore year, because he was able to keep up with his work until subjects like English required a lot of reading. He began noting his difficulty in paying attention. My S was a B student and by getting extra time and some meds he became a strong A student. The changes helped him realize his potential to be an A student.</p>
<p>He did get extra time on his ACT and received a score in the 99 percentile. He did use all of his extra time. He will also get extra time in college, so I do believe he will be able to achieve high grades.</p>
<p>After my S was diagnosed, I took my D in because she has always had test anxiety. She was diagnosed before she went to college and she receives extra time in college. Again it helped her achieve As instead of Bs. This is really important for her to obtain jobs and apply to graduate school, but most importantly achieve her potential.</p>
<p>Neither of my children have been discriminated against because of their learning differences. It is common today, and people understand kids with ADHD are not “■■■■■■■.” </p>
<p>I certainly understand everyone’s frustration with too many students obtaining accommodations, but for my S and D, it has helped them achieve their potential. Like most things it might be better to have too many than not enough. There are some standard tests that are required for ACT/SAT to approve extended time. Perhaps what people should be looking at is the requirements for obtaining accommodations.</p>
<p>“I certainly understand everyone’s frustration with too many students obtaining accommodations, but for my S and D, it has helped them achieve their potential. Like most things it might be better to have too many than not enough. There are some standard tests that are required for ACT/SAT to approve extended time. Perhaps what people should be looking at is the requirements for obtaining accommodations.”</p>
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<p>Agreed, collegemother2. But if there were only one set of rules or rubric, from what level should it be administered? At the national level would probably be cumbersome & inefficient, while at the school district level leads to the type of ‘gaming’ that seems to be happening.</p>
<p>I think economic pressures from a college admissions standpoint has at least partially led to the alleged abuse in Chicago’s North Shore suburbs, mainly focusing on admissions to UIUC. Because students from these high-income families are not assured acceptances to the Ivies, certainly with little merit aid if they are, the next rung down so to speak has become Champaign-Urbana, at which there has been absolutely brutal acceptance competition over the last 3-4 years because of relative value to a Top 50 school with in-state tuition. Quite a few stories of applicants with 32, 33, 34 ACT, 3.9+ GPA stats being denied outright, thus the requests for accommodations.</p>
<p>It’s morally wrong & it probably can’t be proven, but the most important thing obviously is that it doesn’t take away from those those true LD students that really need those accommodations.</p>
<p>“I don’t want the ■■■■■■ in my group”</p>
<p>It’s an isolated environment that would tolerate that comment. And those who use that type of language will be in for a rude awakening when they enter the real world. “Even if they go to weird schools were everyone is supposedly mysteriously more accepting than… you know, the whole rest of the world… they won’t be in that isolated environment forever.”</p>
<p>My children would be A students too if they received extra time on tests. Every child could up their scores, GPAs, with accommodations and then extra help in school to reach their “potential” sorry, but really? If my child doesn’t read as fast as another does that mean that my d has a learning disability? I can’t believe this…we are enabling all these kids and then they go on to college where they have extra help too…did not know this! Wow, did any one ever read “Blessings of a Skinned Knee”…</p>