<p>I'm working with a student who is a raising senior in high school. She is very poor and was never notified that she could receive a waiver for the test fees for the SAT and ACT. She has been prepping all summer for the ACT. I took it for granted that her HS would give her a waiver, but the guidance counselor said they don't have anymore from last year and haven't recieved any for this coming year yet. The problem is that she needs to register by August 17th for the September test date. Does anyone know how these things actually work. I'm not shy, and I have no problem being pushy. I called ACT and they stated that the new waivers were sent a week ago. Unfortunately, the guidance office is being renovated so the secretaries have no idea where anything is. They didn't even know what an ACT was. I told them they need to call ACT to get a waiver but they were clueless.</p>
<p>I'm going to be really ****ed off if this kid has to pay for this test, when I know there's help out there for students like herself, but the more I know about this system the better. I don't want to start pushing buttons and then look foolish. Nor do I want them to be able talk circles around me. I need to have all my ducks in row. Also what other waivers are there? Does anyone know exactly how many ACT tests you can take with waivers? I think kids can get waivers for the applications too. How many?</p>
<p>The GC will usually order fee waivers at the end of the school year and they come over the summer. However, it does not mean that the ACT/College board does not drag their butts sending them out. Also there is a big backlog of summer mail, that sometimes takes a minute to go through. </p>
<p>Don’t be too pushy and try to back the secretaries in to doing something that they in most places may not have the authority to do (give out fee waivers), because it puts the employee in a funky situation and does not endear the student to people that she needs to take her through the process.</p>
<p>You can’t take for granted that the school would just give her fee waivers, because there are processes. In addition, both the college board and ACT now send less fee waivers than they did in the past. The college board now ask how many of your students are eligible for free/reduced lunch and then sends fee waivers based on the number of fee waivers requested and actually used the previous year. </p>
<p>So if students sign up for a test and then don’t show, it penalizes the school. This means that schools have to establish a process, especially if you don’t receive enough fee waivers. </p>
<p>The college board provides fee waivers for 2 sittings of the SAT/SATII test with 4 college application fee waivers. They get 4 free score reports (so they have to put in schools that they want to have the report sent to) It is most important that if the student is eligible for free/reduced lunch that she fills out the forms at her school (because it is the basis for eligibility for fee waivers and they are cracking down on compliance).</p>
<p>If she is eligible for ACT fee waivers, she would get them for sittings. There are no application fee waivers for the fee waiver.
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<p>Has student considered applying through Questbridge? Is there Posse in your area? Has she been nominated as a Posse scholar?</p>
<p>This is a great post. I am also concerned about a student who has not been given any test waivers that she would qualify for. I was also planning on asking about this for her. Good to know- thanks.</p>
<p>The ownership falls first and foremost with the student to request a fee waiver and to make sure that they have submitted the paperwork required by their school for obtaining a fee waiver. As I stated earlier, most are given first come first serve, so kids who inquire early in the process will get them first (if they qualify). If the school runs out, even though the student qualifies, they may end up having to wait until the school receives more fee waivers from the college board/ACT.</p>
<p>I agree that the responsiblity belongs to the student unfortunately its the responsbility of the GC to let these kids know that this program is available to them and exists. Her GC never mentioned it and this student is on the free/reduced lunch program. I have dealt with several different schools over the past few years, regarding the ‘college process’ and i can’t believe how ignorant the GC’s are. Either that or they are just plain lazy. So its very frustrating because they are paid to do a job and where I live I can say that they are paid very well. These aren’t inner city schools that I’m dealing with. They are public, well supported by the taxpayer dollars districts. One school was even a private catholic school. </p>
<p>Again thanks for your help…(Oh and I have been nice. I know I need these morons to write a letter of rec so I don’t want to ruin it for the student. On the other hand I just don’t want them to try and push me off to the side with silly excuses, so I have to have a good handle on this process. Sad but true.)</p>
<p>Dungareedoll, I understand. The student I am concerned about is low income first generation to college and very bright. Despite it being the student’s responsibility- it irks me that the guidance counselor did not notice this student. I did- and I am just a parent. Since this student’s mother did not go to college and is unaware of the application process, they have very little understanding of it. So yes, the problem is an understaffed, overwhelmed guidance office, but what a shame to let intelligent students fall through the cracks. Fortunately, this one won’t thanks to a great teacher who noticed too.</p>
<p>While you may have had a few bad experiences with counselors, unless you have worked with every single counselor, I think that it is wrong of you to malign a whole profession and reduce them to being morons. Since this is stuff that you apparently care about, have you considered going to grad school and getting licensed to become a GC?</p>
<p>I think that many parents (I was one also) who have a very myopic view as to what they think that the guidance counselor is suppose to do and what the guidance counselor actually does. I got to the point that I could either squawk about it or i could be a person who makes a difference. But I operate from the perspective that I want to be the type of counselor that I would want my kid to have (hey my kid went to a top magnet school, and the counseling wasn’t great, which prompted me to career change) </p>
<p>Unless schools have a dedicated college counselor (and most don’t) the priority and main job of the GC is not college advising, but dealing with the students, social/emotional/behavioral issues especially if those students are mandated for individual/group counseling. </p>
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<p>What you tend to forget is that they do not even have to deal with you or talk to you about anything concerning the student (especially if you are not the parent of record). I’ll be honest, if you were coming to see me about a student that was not your child and you were not the parent of record , I would send you on your way and tell you to come back with the parent/guardian. Even then, I would ask if they wanted you in the meeting.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that this is a 2-way street where in reality it is the student that leads the process. The GC is never going to a student’s 2nd period class and say “Doll, you did not come by to talk to me for a fee waiver.” </p>
<p>Has the student ever visited with the GC to express his/her concerns about the college application process, identifying schools, based on their grades, rank, test scores? </p>
<p>I have over 400 students on my caseload and I cover everything from freshman orientation, to post grad plans in addition to teaching junior class advisory where we go through all steps of the college process. For those of us are overwhelmed dealing with our 1, 2 or 4 kids, try 400 (and their parents).</p>
<p>But then I am also a fool that works 12 hour days, taking a lot of it on the cuff and writing recommendation letters/evaluating all of the transcripts of my rising senior and fine tuning my programming over my summer vacation (unpaid)). I also maintain a dedicated e-mail just for my students going through the college process. </p>
<p>I deal with parents, teachers, social workers, my administration, court advocates, ACS workers, probation officers, city agencies and my students. For me, I know for a fact, that I am doing way more work, for way less money than I was making in corporate life (but I also love what I do) and while it is easy to sit on the sidelines a b*tch about what GCS/Teaches do or don’t do, there are a whole lot of people running to career change to do it.</p>
<p>Then again, I know every one of my kids that are fee waiver eligible because I run the meal code reports for all of my juniors and seniors.</p>
<p>So yes, the kid that slit their wrist in the school bathroom, the kid that comes to you and disclosed that she was sexually assaulted by a relative, the kid that comes in bruised and tells you they got into a fight with dad last night and he chocked him, now you have to call ASC, write an incident report for OARS and do all of the associated paperwork all take priority over the fee waiver.</p>
<p>Sybbie- I think parents, like me, do have an unrealistic view of the GC because back in our day, I recall the GC being available to talk about colleges and somehow we expected that to still be the case. In reality, it is very much as you have described- as educators and counselors are expected to take on many more social and administrative issues than before.
I give full credit to the mother of the child I am concerned about for raising a bright intelligent and motivated student. I think, I too assumed the GC would notice, but yes, if this student is one of 400, getting through school well, with no behavioral or emotional issues, then it is likely the GC is busy with students in far worse circumstances.
This leaves a gap though. The students whose parents have been to college have at least some knowledge of what to do, but for the parent who has never been, it is overwhelming. I guess as a parent the best I can do is let the student know I am available if there are any questions.
I would never walk into the GC office on behalf of this student, and the mother has been included in the college conversation. While I do care about this child, a friend of my child, I recognize the limits of personal boundaries.
I wish our GC office could make use of parent volunteers, but they rightly eliminated this years ago. Why? Not all parents were well meaning and there were issues of confidentiality. It’s not an easy job to be a GC, and it is good that you clarified it for those of us who were unaware.</p>
<p>GC’s still talk about college but the social/administrative role is the job. It is what you go to grad school to learn-how to deal with the social emotional and the administrative goes hand in hand and is mandated by the DOE. The person who become a GC with the mindset that they are going to simply do college counseling is not going to get employed, because that is not the main crux of the job. Most grad schools have no courses on college advising. The GC who knows college learns it own their own and has to fight tooth and nail to go to professional development .</p>
<p>The college conversations still happen. It happens at my school because we as a school believe that if you want to create a college going culture that it has to start from the moment the student walks in freshman year. </p>
<p>Think of it as CC live on steroids; you talk to the student/family about the importance of having a balanced list that includes having schools that are financially affordable to the family and sometimes, you are placed in a no win situation.</p>
<p>Parents squawk that you don’t believe in their child you remind them that it is ok to apply to Harvard, but remember that there is a 5% admit rate and make sure that you have more schools on your radar.</p>
<p>You walk a fine line about financial aid, because you can’t talk about their personal finances, you explain that “X” school does not meet full need, but little Egbert thinks that the school is going to throw money at him just because. Parents don’t want to hear that they are first in line when it comes to paying for their child’s education an the list goes on. </p>
<p>I have students who did not know that they were undocumented until it came time to apply for college (then the parent still did not want the kid to know).</p>
<p>We do realize that that parents have entrusted us with the most important people in their lives; however it is a 3 legged-stool consisting of the student, the parent and the child.</p>
<p>Most importantly, I have to check Sybbie, Chicky’s mom at the door and be Ms. Syb -GC. MY life as Chicky’s mom was different- I had a job that gave me a lot of flexibility including working virtual during her junior/senior years of hs (the college process in our house began subtly sophomore year) . I cannot impose my values and what I would do as Chicky’s mom on my students or their parents. We give advice, we can’t tell other parents how to spend their money or how to raise their kids.</p>
<p>Being a little defensive, perhaps? The reference to “morons” was an understandable, I think, reaction to an single incident involving a few isolated “morons.” Dungareedoll then briefly expressed frustration with GC’s she had met over the years who lacked familiarity with the college admissions process.</p>
<p>A reasonable response might have been to point out that a GC’s duties are many and varied, thus explaining why not all GC’s are experts in college admissions. You chose instead to read this as an attempt “to malign a whole profession” and, apparently, you, in particular. Overreacting a bit?</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that if GC positions were properly funded and staffed, you would not be overworked and Dungareedoll would not have needed to intervene on behalf of this student in the first place. Don’t blame Dungareedoll for being frustrated with a system that frustrates you also. The two of you are on the same side. You may be the professional with the graduate degree, but you can’t be everything to everyone. If it weren’t for volunteers like Dungareedoll, a lot more kids would fall through the cracks.</p>
<p>I am not overreacting nor am I taking it personal because at the end of the day, she is not talking about me and mine. It is just that the comments become really tired, and it gets really old. </p>
<p>Why should anyone be referred to as a moron for the work that they do? </p>
<p>You are right that there is a systemic problem with in the school system, and there is not adequate funding across the board from guidance, basic literacy, to providing services for ELLs and SPED.</p>
<p>But also remember that the school day is 6.5 hours long. People who work in the school system can definitely cannot be all things to all people (I am fortunate because my child is an adult and I have more time to give, but I don’t have the same expectations of people who are also working and balancing parent responsibilities). That is why I think that there should be funding to help we also try to educate parents so that they can be better parents in the process.</p>
<p>One of the things that has helped at my school is that we have adopted a small group advisory model, where each teacher is responsible for 15 students that they stick with from freshman to senior year. This translates to more than one adult in the school knowing a kid. There are 2 periods a week devoted to advisory, where teachers meet with their advisees. We get together as a group and case conference about students, and PD consists of me turn keying information back to students.</p>
<p>IMO, the biggest challenge even in grad programs in school guidance is that there is a one size fits all program (because at the time, you do not know where you are going to land and your license covers K-12). There is definitely course work that I think we could definitely live with out for 2 semester courses in college advising and financial aid.</p>
<p>There are some people (like me who go to grad school knowing that they want to do high school), but many young grad students straight out of college, know that they just want to be able to get a job. The job opportunity is more likely to happen at the high school level, because at the elementary/middle school level there is usually only one GC.</p>
<p>While teachers in NYC contractually cannot have more than 34 students in a class and teach more than 5 classes a day and cannot teach more than 3 classes in a row, there are no caps on how many students a GC can have (If you have a school with less than 100 students, which is the case with new start ups, you do not get a GC). </p>
<p>When I started, I interned in a large school that had 10 counselors (one dedicated to related services counseling) and a college adviser to 2500 student. The college adviser had just gotten excessed (they did not have the budget to pay for the 11th counselor). I remember for a couple of weeks that the GCs were asking who was going to do college advising and the principal told them “you are doing college advising”. So there I was the intern, teaching GCs college advising (overlap from my previous life) and they were teaching me the day to day duties of being a GC.</p>
<p>Now that schools are transitioning to a “small school model”, the situation is going to get worse because you have 1 counselor who does everything to from soup to nuts.</p>
<p>If the school has a budget and has to chose with doing with one less teacher or one less GC, which one do you think is going?</p>
<p>The biggest advantage that my child had in the college process (and I did not work for the DOE when she was in high school going through the college process), was an informed parent. With the exception of the school administrative part (processing transcript request and having recommendations sent in), I was not dependent on the school because I became informed about the process (from admissions to financial aid to post grad outcomes) and continued to build on that information.</p>
<p>That is why I think that there should be funding to help we also try to educate parents so that they can be better parents in the process.</p>