Acting vs. MT?

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>This is my first post. I've spent a lot of time lurking, mostly over on the Musical Theater forum, but am now traveling over to these pages seeking advice.</p>

<p>My daughter is a rising junior who has, for many years, been headed for a major (and hopefully a career) in musical theater. She has a well-trained, killer voice and began singing professionally at the age of 6. Her father and I have spent the last 10 years responding to strangers raving about our daughter's voice. She can't imagine not singing. </p>

<p>But a funny thing happened over the last year. She fell in love with acting.</p>

<p>Acting is now her first love, and she considers her singing to be merely an extension of her acting. In particular, she has fallen in love with Shakespeare, and, as it turns out, handles that kind of heightened language with great ease. (She did a summer program at RADA, where her very tough Shakespeare instructor told her she was made for Shakespeare.)</p>

<p>In addition, she is looking beyond college to a career. She realizes that the bulk of employment for actors is in television, so she wants to be practical and aim in that direction.</p>

<p>Hence our fork in the road.</p>

<p>I've spent a lot of time researching musical theater schools, but know very little about straight acting choices. My daughter is now very clear as to what she wants, but I'm not sure it even exists.</p>

<p>She wants to get amazing acting training and skills, especially in classical acting.</p>

<p>She wants musical theater. She wants to sing. (Excellent singer, excellent actor, fair dancer.)</p>

<p>She wants to become proficient in acting for the screen.</p>

<p>She wants to be in a "nurturing" program, not one that tears students down emotionally.</p>

<p>She's very smart (attends one of the top 20 academic high schools in the country, the kind where everyone ends up at an Ivy. Her stats are good-but-not-great: 3.6 GPA, SAT should be 2100-2200), and wants to be around other very smart people.</p>

<p>She is a city girl who would go crazy in a rural environment.</p>

<p>...Help! As a rising junior, she has to start preparing her list of schools (her preliminary list is due to her dean by Christmas). But what schools even exist that can give her what she wants? What schools could give her most of what she wants? How do we thread this needle?</p>

<p>I am grateful for any and all advice you wise and experienced people can provide! Thank you.</p>

2

<p>This is a very interesting needle to thread and I think things will go well for her. I don’t have perfect answers, but a few bits to help you think. D goes to Hartt and has a friend who switched from the MT to the Acting BFA after her first year for just this reason. She will still have private voice but will be able to spend her junior year studying Shakespeare intensively, will be cast in the plays but not in the musicals, etc. </p>

<p>Many schools that have both MT and Acting will offer some MT applicants placement in the Acting program, but I’ve never heard of anyone applying as an actor but being placed in MT. She might want to think about that when applying. If she sings beautifully that is another aspect of her acting and it might be worth showing it off. </p>

<p>Beyond that-- she needs to look at all the websites of schools that interest her at all, to study what’s offered and consider how she might make it work for herself. The schools are very very different, and only she (with help from you) can really know what fits. Does a school offer voice lessons for actors as well as MT majors? (Hartt does, for an extra fee.) How does the casting work? (At Hartt plays and musicals run concurrently so acting majors are rarely cast in musicals.) Is there a classical focus to the training? (At Hartt Junior year is spent almost entirely on classical acting, for acting majors.) </p>

<p>Obviously I know more about Hartt than other schools, but this is the kind of thing you want to look into. When I think of great acting schools in great cities I think of BU, NYU, CMU, DePaul, Guthrie/UMinn and Northwestern. The NYU advanced Classical Studio sounds great, but she’d have to audition in after sophomore year…if she was accepted to NSB MT and then transferred to Classical maybe that would be perfect? I don’t know but I remember that things came clearer and clearer to us as D pored over the websites and curricula.</p>

3

<p>A program that I feel many overlook is the Actor’s Training Program at the University of Utah, which I think is a great program for those looking for something in-between MT and Acting. The program has a lot of movement classes and a strong vocal/singing component. Many of the students in the program actually crossed over from MT at some point in their schooling, and are very happy there. The acting is wonderful too, and the program offers a semester (possibly more?) abroad in London to meet her love of Shakespeare.</p>

<p>I think many overlook it because of its location, but U of U is right in the heart of Salt Lake City, which is a wonderful city with thriving arts (U of U actually has an equity theater on campus students can be involved in), and is actually pretty affordable for students. It is quite a bit more diverse in some aspects than I think people give it credit for. I would really encourage you to look at the program!</p>

4

<p>I believe UNCSA nails every one of your criteria except for the desire to be in a city. </p>

<p>See a post I made last Spring setting out the criteria. It seems to me it maps pretty well to what you are looking for. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1489498-uncsa-distinctive-criteria.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1489498-uncsa-distinctive-criteria.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As I review my old post, what I left out and is probably relevant to your daughter is they actually do training in singing and dance even though it is an acting program. A fair number of UNCSA alumni have appeared on Broadway in musical productions.</p>

5

<p>If I’m not mistaken, Webster in St. Louis combines MT and Acting students into one big “performance major” or something to that general effect. They are intertwined in acting classes and share similar opportunities. Might be a good one to look into further.</p>

6

<p>I strongly encourage you to look into programs both in cities and out. These kids are so busy at school, the surrounding areas are less than important. The quality of the program is what you should concentrate on, not the location as much.</p>

<p>My son is a singer, a dancer and an actor, and like your child, loves loves loves Shakespeare. He chose to follow the acting route, but chose a college what will allow him to dance and sing as well. He loves MT, but really wanted his training to be more about his acting. However, he will still take voice lessons and dance classes throughout.</p>

7

<p>Obviously, a musical theatre program is going to teach singing AND acting, while a theatre program may not have much opportunity to develop singing. When I was an undergrad, theatre majors and musical theatre majors often took their acting classes together. Maybe find a musical theatre program where she will also have the opportunity to take Shakespeare and other classical acting.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if she has already been told by a very tough RADA instructor that she is “made for Shakespeare”, have you considered applying to RADA?</p>

<p>KEVP</p>

8

<p>My initial thoughts to your question, and we have really only reviewed schools in the East and Chicago, are:</p>

<p>University of the Arts
DePaul</p>

<p>Other schools that meet the acting and MT criteria but not the location criteria are:
North Carolina School for the Arts
Ithaca
Syracuse
Carnegie Mellon</p>

<p>I agree with previous post that your D may need to de-prioritize location. These kids are so busy. They are basically in studio or in rehearsal all their waking hours, and a good bit on Saturday too. Take the "city’ requirement out and she has more options. NCSA would be a great option; Acting Dad is right.</p>

9

<p>Otterbein has a very blended program; the acting kids take voice and dance throughout the first year (and beyond, if they want to) and both acting and MT student audition for all shows. Their acting classes are combined, and as far as we can tell the two programs are practically indistinguishable, especially in the first couple of years. It’s in a small town on the outskirts of a big city, but I agree with the comments that location should only be a minor consideration because of the intensity of work. Like several of other schools mentioned, Otterbein is not a competitive school in terms of academics, and your daughter wouldn’t have many academic classes, so it might not be a good fit in that regard; they only take one academic class (outside the BFA requirements) per semester. </p>

<p>I would also echo KEVP’s question about RADA; in fact, I thought about asking it earlier and then I figured he would do it, so I held off! :wink: But it does sound like what your daughter’s looking for could certainly be found in the British schools, based on what I’ve read on CC. </p>

<p>If I were in your shoes, I’d encourage her to apply to a range of schools and spend a lot of time reading, talking to people, visiting (as much as you’re able) and just letting it all percolate. Since she has to turn in a tentative list in December, let it be a broad one, with opportunities for her to grow in many directions. She can always change it. I’m a junior class dean in a competitive independent school, and I can promise you that she will continue to grow and evolve over the next year and a half! No need to narrow her options now. One of my son’s best friends is a top student and talented opera singer who applied to competitive universities AND auditioned for many selective MT and VP programs. She had good acceptances and ultimately has chosen to go to Yale, but is so glad she tested herself in a range of directions and gave herself time to decide what felt like the best fit in the spring of senior year. Hang in there and try to shrug off the pressure a little bit–I’ve always found that as a parent, I really want to KNOW early on what’s going to happen, but I just can’t!</p>

10

<p>It is not a threading of the needle exercise at all. It is entirely possible for your daughter to have the best of both worlds. All she needs is to pick an either an MT program with heavy emphasis on acting or an acting program that includes access to MT training if desired. Many great programs come to mind and some have been mentioned already.</p>

<p>I will elaborate on the only program that I have direct experience with. NYU Tisch New Studio on Broadway has both an MT and acting track. The straight actors and MT’s are in acting classes together (they do scene work together) as well as speech, and academic classes. MTs are expected to be actors every bit as much as the straight actors are though the actors have more acting related classes (like transformations where they literally have to transform themselves into some sort of character for an entire day) while the MTs obviously have things like music theory, singing, vocal performance etc. For movement/dance, as far as I know, the actors do not take ballet or contemporary dance but they take yoga, a tango movement class and martial arts. The actors do eventually have vocal performance classes so they sing too but obviously it wouldn’t be emphasized as it would be in the MT track. Sophomore year at New Studio (for both MTs and actors) is entirely dedicated to Shakespeare so there is significant training in the classics automatically built in to the program. In advanced studio training (after the first two years) she can stick with New Studio if she wants to or transfer into one of the other studios including the classics studio already mentioned. Not something that would have to be decided in advance but nice to know the option to shift gears is out there as her tastes and preferences evolve. Anyway, as I said, NYU is one of many options to combine the best of both worlds and have it all.</p>

<p>I did want to comment on several points you also mentioned in your laundry list of criteria that are getting lost a bit though:</p>

<ol>
<li>“City girl who would go crazy in a rural environment”. If you already know that to be true, you should honor it. I’ve got a daughter like that as well and it was a deal breaker. You can apply that filter and still have an ample amount of schools to choose from leftover.</li>
<li>“She is smart and wants to be around smart people”. You can also apply that filter and still have a great list of schools. My daughter allowed for a little more wiggle room on that criteria for her school list in case she didn’t get into her top choice program but for her, the less academic options were the least desired. There is plenty of information already in this forum about schools with great theatre training and strong academics so it is fairly easy to find the schools that will check that box for her. </li>
</ol>

<p>But the comment that I really wanted to highlight is: “she wants to be in a nurturing program, not one that tears students down emotionally.” What does that really mean? The very nature of the drama training is highly emotional and some tearing down probably comes with the territory in order to stretch and grow as a performer. In New York theatre scene for example, there is a no nonsense directness while maintaining professionalism that is expected. NYU handles its training the same way. It’s not warm and fuzzy – deliberately not because the NYC theatre world is not. The expectation at NYU is that the students will learn to be handle themselves like professionals who can cope with what awaits them after they graduate. Personally I think that is a very valuable lesson to make your mistakes with and adjust to while you are still in college.</p>

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<p>Wow! Thank you all so much for your thoughtful and helpful answers. I have a lot of research to do, and now I feel I have a great place to start!</p>

<p>Gwen Fairfax – Thank you for the suggestions of DePaul and Guthrie. I didn’t not have them on my list at all, but I’m heading off to research. And thank you also, DramaMom, for the DePaul suggestion. When I see something listed twice, I know to pay special attention!</p>

<p>Also a very good question for us to ask about whether acting majors are cast in musicals at all. Obviously that’s a crucial question, which I wouldn’t have thought to look into. If anyone has specific knowledge about that at various schools, I’d love to hear! (Or should that be a separate thread?)</p>

<p>Yes to both therealKEVP and times3 – I think we will indeed be applying to RADA and also to LAMDA (which really has exactly what she’s looking for). But I’m assuming that British schools have a very few “slots” for Americans, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned from hovering around CC, it’s not to get your heart set on any one school. (Not to mention the adjustment I’d have to make at the idea of having my daughter 5000 miles away!)</p>

<p>We can discuss it again, but I do think the “city girl” thing is a dealbreaker. We live in a major city now, and my daughter <em>loves</em> city life. She loves NYC (as opposed to her older brother, who turned down NYU because he didn’t think he could live there). And her time at RADA made her fall in love with London as well. Just being able to see 2 or 3 major shows a week was so invigorating to her…</p>

<p>halflokum – I knew about NYU’s New Studio of course from my MT research, but it honestly never occurred to me that one could apply as just an acting major for the New Studio. That is a really, really interesting idea. Looking into it further. Thank you!</p>

<p>As for the idea of a program that’s “nurturing” vs. “tearing down” – I’m sorry that I didn’t explain that well. More than a few acting programs have an overtone of bullying about them, and I’m afraid my daughter wouldn’t do well in that kind of program. I know that often it varies from teacher to teacher (at her high school, there are 4 different drama teachers, each with varying personalities and teaching styles, for instance), but sometimes there’s a tone that’s endemic to a program, I think.</p>

<p>My daughter isn’t afraid of rejection (in fact, she said recently that she thought she should get out there and start auditioning for work just so she can toughen herself up to deal with rejection). My husband and I are both in the biz (not as performers), and so she has seen years of highs and lows, rejections and disappointments. She knows at least a little of what she’s in for professionally. But some acting teachers (and schools of thought) build you up and others tear you down, and she knows what kind of approach she thrives under and what makes her curl up and want to hide. (RADA, incidentally, has been a dream program from that point of view, even though the teachers are very, very tough and picky about the work.)</p>

<p>I think that the real work of a professional actor (beyond all the technique and craft, of course) is to manage to deal with constant rejection and humiliation while still remaining completely vulnerable emotionally. I guess we’re looking for a program that’s sensitive to that entire equation. I hope that makes sense, and I’m sorry I didn’t explain it well earlier!</p>

<p>Thank you again, all of you, so much for weighing in with your knowledge and experience! How very helpful you are!</p>

12

<p>Taken from their prospectus, this is one of the reasons that my S chose LAMDA.</p>

<p>“LAMDA defines the actor’s role as storyteller, artist,
communicator and commentator. Our training
demands our students’ emotional and intellectual
engagement with the world around them.
Drama is a collaborative art form. We place great
emphasis on the individual’s responsibility to the
group and the group’s responsibility to the individual.
Nothing is more important than the cultivation of an
environment in which creativity can flourish. Risktaking,
barrier-breaking and exploration can only occur
because attitudes of mutual respect, support and
celebration are firmly embedded within the Academy.
LAMDA actors are characterised by their commitment,
imagination and openness, supported by strong vocal
and physical technique. There is, however, no such
thing as a LAMDA product. We develop each student’s
individual strengths, talent and potential.”</p>

13

<p>That’s a beautiful statement from LAMDA!! I think you are absolutely right to be looking for a nurturing program, Paying our dues. Any program that leads impressionable young people through emotional territory can edge toward bullying, and I don’t think a cold, critical atmosphere helps anyone take the risks that are essential for any artist. D felt, as we looked at the various programs, listened to the talks, met the students, read the websites, that she could sense the tone of a place. She was looking for just the atmosphere LAMDA describes. (Though one of her wishes was to be close to home.) She found it and I think your D will too.</p>

14

<p>@payingourdues. Hmm… I’m hoping somebody who has an acting student at NYU will weigh in here because I’m not entirely positive you can audition for a specific acting studio. Acting studios are assigned at the discretion of the auditors and admission committee. I believe you can indicate a preference but it doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get it. In reverse though, if you are auditioning for MT there is only 1 studio at NYU Tisch that has the MT program and it is New Studio. (Plus it has an acting track too). So you can decide that you will ONLY consider placement in the MT studio if that is important to you but you know that if you don’t get it, you’re out of NYU entirely. My daughter indicated a preference for the MT studio, but she also said she was open to placement in ANY studio and frankly I’m pretty sure would have wanted to got to Tisch no matter where they put her. </p>

<p>The actors in New Studio take many classes with the MTs but they also have other acting classes that they take that my daughter (who also is an actor first) would KILL to take too. Too many things, too little time. So there are some tradeoffs that one ultimately has to make. What I like though is if two years or three years into the program she decides she wants to switch to an acting studio, or the acting track at New Studio, she can. There are plenty of students that do that. I know soozievt’s daughter did switch to the Experimental Theatre Wing for advance training. I also know of rising seniors that are amazing MTs in New Studio that are switching to Stonestreet for their senior year to get more acting for film experience. All and all, I think the fact that one has those options and doesn’t have to decide all of that when they are still a senior in high school is quite helpful.</p>

<p>There is also a RADA semester option that you can read about on the NYU website but it is HIGHLY competitive to get in to it because you compete against all of the actors in every studio in multiple years that want to go and they take a small number. But for the lucky few that get to go, it’s pretty darn amazing.</p>

15

<p>^^elaborating on my own post because I can no longer edit it and then I’m out because I don’t want this to sound like a commercial for NYU. It’s not - I am trying just to provide detail about a program that I actually know something about which can span both interests. Come to think of it, why NOT just specify the acting studio you have a preference for among those that also have MT training (New Studio does for actors that I know for sure) and if you don’t get assigned to it, go somewhere else? How is that any different than just saying that you would only take placement into the NSB MT program if you were set on studying MT and then rolling the dice if you get it or not? It isn’t.</p>

16

<p>I really don’t think these schools have “slots” or a “quota” on North American students. In fact, in general, UK colleges and unis (not just in drama) LOVE having North American students, because they don’t have to give North American students the huge discount on tuition they are required to give students from the countires of the European Union. I’m pretty sure that they will take the folks who meet their high standards, no matter what country they are from.</p>

17

<p>I think many great suggestions have been mentioned already. The point about finding a MT program that is heavy on acting training (many are, but for example, NYU and CMU) is one way to go, or an acting program that has a lot of MT options to continue with voice/dance and to be cast in musicals (examples: Ithaca, NYU). </p>

<p>When you add in a desire to be in a city and to be in a more academically challenging environment, NYU and Northwestern come to mind, or USC (the latter has a MT minor). My D cast a wider net, though she preferred being in or near a city, and also was a very strong academic student. But as these programs are so competitive, she applied to some that were not in a city and where the BFA was very selective but the overall university was not. </p>

<p>While I think there are a number of good suggestions here, I will reiterate what was said about NYU/Tisch, as my own kid attended there. For Acting, why you can’t necessarily pick your studio, you can mention in the audition the studio you think would be a good fit. I know NSB was mentioned in this thread but also in Playwrights Horizons studio, your D can study acting and also do a MT Practicum and so that studio is a good option for her as well. As already mentioned, the beauty of NYU for your D is that she could train in one studio like NSB or PH for two years and then do Classical Studio, for example, to get more intense classical acting, for her advanced studio (latter years). It is a very flexible BFA program that allows for a mix of options. Like was posted by halflokum, my D did the MT studio for five semesters (at the time, the studio was CAP21) and Experimental Theater Wing (ETW) for three semesters (and even in that studio, she did some vocal and dance work, and also created and acted in her own musical). As well, acting students can be cast in musicals and she was a lead in the mainstage musical at Tisch while in ETW studio. </p>

<p>It so happens that a local girl just graduated the BFA in Acting program at Ithaca this spring, though she is someone who has a strong background in MT, but was admitted for Acting, and she is helping me every day right now on some tasks at my house and so we have chatted a lot! As an Acting student at Ithaca, she was able to take private voice, dance classes, and be cast in musicals, though it was a bit harder to be cast in the mainstage musicals, but not impossible. She also is a very strong academic student, but found the academics to not be all that challenging and the requirements did not allow her to really study liberal arts subjects/topics she would have liked to. My D got into Ithaca for MT, but honestly would not have been too thrilled to live in Ithaca.</p>

<p>Still, when building a list of BFA programs, picking the program over the greater university and the location, still has to be primary, as there a finite number of programs. The student can afford to be even choosier about secondary selection criteria once acceptances are in hand.</p>

18

<p>It seems in the BA (Hons) program at LAMDA this year most of the students out of the 28 are from all over the UK, one from Malaysia and three from the US. The masters program has more Americans but that shouldn’t discourage anyone from applying. My D thought it was a shot in the dark. Also they make it clear that they want to develop a well rounded actor with acting as well as a focus on voice and movement. They seem to want to have individual actors who have a complete package when they leave LAMDA.</p>

19

<p>I forgot to mention as we are finding out a lot of the students are a bit older however, the ones from the US are right out of high school.</p>

20

<p>I can’t speak for RADA, LAMDA, and the others, but I know when I auditioned for Royal Welsh at Unifieds, they said as a rule they try not to accept more than 6 American students, and often only choose 3-4 to join them in Wales.</p>