<p>Agree ^^^^</p>
<p>Photomom: if my D had not been cast in the high school shows then she could have looked at community options. But she also worked crew for shows (especially as a freshman where in a big school it’s impossible to get a part), and gained a lot of valuable experience that way as well. It’s a matter of personal preference at some point. She wanted to be with her friends and experience high school life the way she did. Others may feel differently.</p>
<p>Prodesse: I can only tell you what was told to me by the directors of two programs. One met with a group of kids and parents last summer. After telling us all that if you can think of anything else to do, do it (hear that from everyone, it seems!), the next thing he said to the kids especially was to work on their grades. His point was this: they will see hundreds of talented kids audition. And of course if your audition is bad, then that’s the clincher right there. But when they narrow down the pool, they want smart kids. And they also have university requirements for minimum GPAs and test scores that any applicant has to meet. He told us of a student that they really wanted for their program, but in the end they could not get her in because her grades did not meet minimum university requirements. So from what I can gather, you have to audition well. That’s a given. But grades matter a lot too.</p>
<p>The audition is the most important factor. Grades and test scores are the next most important factor. The resume matters very little, compared to those.</p>
<p>We all know which schools care about grades the most, and which are more forgiving if you have a great audition. We will tailor our list accordingly. Comparably talented kids with comparable grades from our school have gone to good BFA programs (Syracuse, BoCo), so I’m not unduly worried. Anyone who meets my D knows she is smart. She is an intelligent actress. She tests well. She writes well and loves English. She hates math and science and doesn’t always do her homework. Oh well. As an educator, I am cynical about the educational system anyway. :)</p>
<p>It’s not a trade-off between grades and shows. My daughter did high school, community, and a teeny bit of professional theater and often did homework during downtime at rehearsals. There’s a lot of downtime at rehearsals. She did turn down one regional job with an overwhelming schedule as a Freshman but in later years I think she’d have done the show. High school theater didn’t teach her much beyond the basics and level of commitment was a stated factor in casting. She was usually well-cast but sometimes chose not to audition and, yes, that caused a big ruckus.</p>
<p>My son was homeschooled and had no opportunity to do any public school activities. He only had youth and community theatre. He was academically and artistically accepted into his top choices and is now in his 2nd year at his #1 choice.</p>
<p>My kid was actively involved in performing arts at her high school and outside of the school in our community and in our region. It was a lot to juggle and scheduling conflicts came up. She also was a very good student. </p>
<p>Yes, the audition matters a LOT, but when there are many talented kids who have what it takes artistically to be admitted, a strong academic record can make a difference, not to mention that at some schools, there is even a separate academic admission. Of course, the level of academic selectivity varies from college to college (BFA aside) and so it is more competitive academically, for example, to be admitted to NYU and UMichigan than to Ithaca, Pace, or Coastal Carolina. </p>
<p>I DO think (picking up on another post) that NYU and UMich would look favorably upon a student who took AP Calculus in HS, not that it is a requirement to be admitted. In a meeting with an admissions person at UMich in the Music School, we were told that they indeed are looking for students who took a very challenging academic course load in high school. And at NYU, the academic review counts 50% of the admissions decision. My own kid (who did end up at NYU) took AP Calculus in her junior year of high school. She took the most challenging curriculum available at our high school and then some (acceleration, independent studies, etc.). </p>
<p>I would not discount academics in the BFA in MT admissions process. That said, many fine BFA programs are located within colleges that are not that selective academically speaking.</p>
<p>In my unscientific, non-academic, parent of two MT kids view, the MT admission process is like trying to earn a Division I college athletic scholaship, if you are 6’4, can run a 4.5 40 and can throw the ball 80 yards, you will get an athletic Scholarship at Notre Dame (pick your school) so long as you meet their minimum academic requirements. Likewise, if you knock your audition out of the park(enough with the sports metaphors) and demonstrate the highest vocal, dance and acting aptitude, and are among the school’s top choices artistically, you are going to get an MT offer as long as you are in their academic acceptance range (even toward the bottom of it). That range varies among the schools. A great but unspectacular audition and brilliant academic/resume credentials will not likely get an offer over others with brilliant auditions and great or (I suspect) average academic and resume credentials. Higher academic aptitute may make a small difference if its a close call among those last couple of spots, but I suspect not a great difference. Back to the origanal OP, the choice would only make a difference to the extent that it helps her prepare for her auditions. Given the numbers and risks in this profession, maintaining great grades in HS and college will keep many other doors open for other vocational options that may or may not involve performing for a living (At least that is what I tell myself).</p>
<p>I think the bottom line is not to sacrifice academics during the high school years. I’ve seen kids (and parents) who put performing before academics, and I think it’s a mistake, even for those kids who are not going to be applying to the schools that value academics, maybe more so for those kids. Good academic stats are going to be important at many schools, for admissions and for scholarships. There are too many kids applying/auditioning these days who are strong in both areas so it’s always wise to do your best. Academics always came first in our house, and we were happy that the arts h/s that our Ds attended also valued academics, to the extent that students were required to maintain a minimum gpa. Not everyone is going to be an academic superstar but putting academic performance on the backburner isn’t doing kids any favors.</p>
<p>^^^Agreed! </p>
<p>And the point about never knowing what the future holds in terms of a career, academics should always be a priority to leave all doors open, and the point about scholarships is not a small one either.</p>
<p>As an aside, most BFA programs are grueling and so being a good student who is motivated, focused, hard working, good at time management, etc. will bode well in terms of succeeding in a rigorous BFA program, even if the main subject matter is not reading/writing/'rithmetic.</p>
<p>Forget the “elite” choir, unless your daughter really wants to do it. Don’t be blackmailed into it. If she’s that talented, it is their loss if they don’t make room for her considering her other interests and commitments. Like a lot said, what IS important and impressive to colleges is TRAINING. My daughter is a senior going through auditions and that has been mentioned. Keep up the training in voice, dance, sand acting. Get it where you can, considering her busy schedule. No one can tell from her resume what she had to give up to do what’s on the resume. We had to be EXTREMELY creative to find ways to get my daughter good training in all areas. She is a dancer. Several years ago I went to the head of the local youth theater and said, “Hi, my daughter is a musical theater NUT, and she wants to go to college for it and try to do it professionally. But you don’t know her, and you know why? Because all of your programs conflict with the dance school, and she’s trying to be a triple threat. So to get theater experience, she’s turned to community theater which rehearses later in the evening.” His eyes opened wide and we had a good discussion afte that, and since then she’s done a FEW things with them, but mostly, for her to keep her dance up, we had to tun to community theater and summer programs. This year my daughter gave up almost all her outside choruses because of college auditions. There are only so many hours in a day. If your daughter can’t fit in the “elite” choir then maybe she could start her own a cappella group that could meet when it works for her, and THAT would look cool on a resume. But really, get a good voice teacher, make sure she’s doing some regular dance, and keep her in shows. And keep grades respectable. Prepare prepare prepare for auditions. If she doesn’t have a good audition, nothing else will matter. But before ANY of this, she should do what she loves. It’s high school.</p>
<p>To add to other voices, I think it really, really depends on what your son or daughter wants to do, where they will thrive, and what the offerings in your town are. I have no idea what an Extracurricular PA school is, by the way–that’s how few choices are in <em>our</em> area! 
SO what is that? Do you meet after school in another school? DO you pay for this?</p>
<p>But honestly, there is no one answer. For instance, two of my children currently want to be actors. Each have been going the route that is right for them. One focused mostly on school academics and did only two high school plays, a couple of semi-professional theatre roles, growing as an actor mostly through serious adult acting classes at a professional theatre. She got into Northwestern-which she loves in part because it is such a great match for her. The other is being homeschooled and does professional shows. He hated high school. (Although by the way–you can do All State Choir while being homeschooled (he did).) THey both have the same goals but are reaching them in different ways. The key I think (I hope) is that their paths are true to themselves and right for them.</p>
<p>Personally, as a teacher myself, I wouldn’t waste too much time worrying about what the school thinks. The level of insider politics that goes on is unbelievable. Many times people who don’t deserve a position get it because they’re friends with the right people (board, super, etc). Our gifted middle school theatre teacher was driven out by a psycho teacher who wanted her spot; as soon as she got it, she destroyed the program. Parents are often very passive about such things, or busy and unaware. Anyway, my kids used high school for when it served their needs, and didn’t worry about it when it didn’t.</p>
<p>A final note–Grades do matter, I feel, in almost any school. I do think a big mistake some people make is to allow their kids to do so much MT in high school that they get C’s in classes. Of course there are <em>always</em> exceptions, but I would be wary of getting too many C’s (or worse) if it can be avoided.</p>
<p>With respect to posts 28-30 and the last paragraph of 32 which more or less says what I’m about to say:</p>
<p>I get the sports analogy and agree with it except with the “pick your school” part. Not sure it is entirely like that in MT land. You can be the artistic equivalent of that Division 1 college football player and not necessarily get to pick your school no matter how talented you are. Especially true for females – those exceptionally talented males may come closer to something that looks like that. There are so many kids that are really really talented and in MT whether or not you knocked it out of the park is subjective. Sports performance (at least football , swimming, archery but maybe not figure skating or gymnastics) can be measured objectively so it is a lot easier to assume that talent = offers.</p>
<p>My feeling is that strong academic record helps with admission everywhere. At some schools it is required and at others it may be the thing that tips the scales in the face of an amazing array of talent to pick from. Not unlike how type, gender, height etc. also come into play. But type, gender, height etc. one can’t do anything about. Academic performance is more within one’s control so it’s an advantage not to leave it on the table if you can help it.</p>
<p>I think what he meant by “pick your school” was that he chose Notre Dame for his story, but you could put any school you like for football in there. Don’t think he meant “pick your school” as in you can get into any MT school…please clarify if I am wrong :)</p>
<p>The comparison to football makes me slightly uncomfortable since my son is forever reminding me that college athletes are not students and spend most of their time crashing into each other.</p>
<p>I agree with many of the posts above, and that your child should do what she WANTS to do.</p>
<p>I am also curious (like Connections) what an extra curricular PA school is. Is it an actual school or a local youth theatre company where you can take classes (pay) and be in performances (pay)? </p>
<p>Because from what I have seen at the ones near me, there is just as much politics involved with those as there are in high school. One of the very “prestigious” ones in my area for example, always cast this particular girl as the lead. (Her father, coincidentally, was extraordinarily wealthy)
I’m sure she was lead to believe that she was more talented than everyone else because of these casting decisions. Long story short- She did not get into any BFA program.
I think it is a wise decision to compete in more than one arena. If I didn’t have what it took, I’d rather know sooner than later.</p>
<p>Thank you, everybody. There seems to be a general consensus, and it jives with my gut reaction. My D will probably forgo state and regional choir. Even though the State and Regional choirs require auditions, there is also a requirement that the school’s Music Director recommend the student. There’s just no question that, were it not for the Music teacher’s political concerns, she’d get into the choir of her choice. And she still might. She’s willing to test if the teacher is bluffing. Worst case: She is in regular choir.</p>
<p>Most of what was conveyed here really corroborates what we’ve learned from watching the older kids go through this particular performing arts school. The ones that have years of training – are versatile, true triple-threats – (and LOVE what they do: you have to love it, to put in the hours these kids put in!) – they all go to the top schools mentioned. They are friends and mentors to the younger kids, so it’s nice that they have many first-hand sources of info about what individual schools are like. (My D is waiting to see how NYU’s proprietary program stacks up now that CAP21 is spun off; she knows kids in both.) </p>
<p>Yes, the audition is key!</p>
<p>That’s the only concern for us. We are blessed not to worry about school selectivity or a deficit in the breadth of her training, because her academics are top-notch, maybe not Harvard or Yale, but really close to that. And she really is a triple-threat. And – according to the directors that have worked with her – a real team player and a joyful person to work with. So, I think my D is in the process of eliminating uncertainty in every controllable variable in getting a viable career in MT. That leaves only: luck. We’ll see.</p>
<p>Was about to respond to theatrelvr along the lines of saying I think we are both saying the same thing since Notre Dame is representative of any highly-selective athletic program but meanwhile DeDiceManCometh wrapped this up and I don’t want to divert the original intent of this thread but since I had already typed up a response, I’ll hit “send”.</p>
<p>DeDiceManCometh, sounds like an amazing program and I’d love to have the question answered about what an after school PA program looks like since many of us are curious. Meanwhile though sounds like you are on a good path. I’d also add that your daughter is a HS freshman. There is a whole lot of growth that happens between 9th grade and senior year. Suddenly people that you never thought were good (in MT or Math or Basketball) get really good. And even if you were top notch academically in middle school suddenly people that you never noticed get good at “stuff” that you might unexpectedly struggle to keep up with. Akin to something said to me back in 9th grade referring to boys we knew from back in my daughter’s middle school: “when did the boys suddenly get smart?” So so true. Certain developmental things just kick in later which changes the end dynamic.</p>
<p>Also are you really watching NYU that closely now and expecting to know how NSB stacks up against Cap21? How will you measure that? By asking around? Cap21 will always say their program was better. NYU’s NSB will always say theirs is. Flip a coin on that comparison and evaluate what the NYU program IS vs. what the program WAS to see if it makes sense for your daughter 3 years from now or not. Feels like an odd thing to be raising concerns with now.</p>
<p>A couple of the benefits of choral work are learning to blend and learning to sight read, both helpful to performing, but not with admissions. Some choral programs are better than others regarding sight reading. That is a helpful skill in any vocal program and for auditions during and after school. My D was amazed at the number of kids in college who couldn’t sight read a note.</p>
<p>cartera45 - not surprised to hear that about kids not being able to read a note. S is in two a cappella groups and was in chorus for years (had to drop it this year) and sight reading is/was never a skill taught to them. He was always glad that he had 6 years of clarinet and band so that he can read music. Altho he is going for acting, not MT, in college reading music is always a great skill to have.</p>