<p>My Mom's friend told us about a book called "Doing School," which researched cheating among high school students (I think the population investigated happened to be public, but I'm not sure). I haven't read it yet, but our friend told us that it's about aggressive efforts of hs students to look good on their diplomas (demanding better grades from teachers, etc.), & to construct their entire hs program around their college needs or want. I can remember thinking, when she told us about the book, that I'll bet there's a lot of fudging on the hs record on the part of many students. My understanding about the hs gc is that one of the <em>supposed</em> roles for the gc is to look over the claims (at least of the co-c's, if not the ec's). My GC has a list of my accomplishments, etc., although it may be mostly for the purpose of writing the GC recommendation.</p>
<p>They guard against it better overseas. For Cambridge & Oxford, your recommender has to review your entire application for accuracy before it is sent. As I recall, they sign off on the application itself, not just their own recommendation. But it was more than a year ago that we checked into that, so I can't swear to it. It probably is a disincentive merely to know that your recommender might be reviewing lies, & you would not want to be embarrassed by that or have your recommendation negatively affected. JMO.</p>
<p>Jaman,
I completely disagree. Integrity in reporting events which have or have not taken place is not a "shades of gray" issue, it is black and white. Adding an extra year to an EC is the beginning of a slippery slope.</p>
<p>^ I agree with robyrm and disagree with Jaman. S is having a similar problem. He listed jazz band as his ec for second semester 12th grade. His coach may not let him play (he plays clarinet and Jazz band doesn't really have clarinet).</p>
<p>We have decided to list that as EC, but if he doesn't get to play, we will send an e-mail to remove that ec.</p>
<p>classicist: yep, it's true that here in the UK (at my school at least), the person who writes your reference has the responsibility of checking the whole form for accuracy. People tend not to lie on their Oxbridge application forms, as they know they might be asked to elaborate on the particular activity at interview. E.g. if you lie and say you worked on a project on enzymes, you could very well end up being asked about it by a world expert. Not many 18 year olds could get away with ********ting when they're faced with that!</p>
<p>yeah. I saw Harvard's policy on it-- it's nuts. If they find out pre acceptance, they reject you, if they find out after acceptance/enrollment they take it back, if they find out while you're at Harvard they kick you out, and if they find out after you graduate you can have your degree revoked. </p>
<p>Do you mean if you could guarantee you wouldn't be caught, you would do it?
I would suggest you very carefully examine the honor codes at the schools to which you are applying. </p>
<p>I guess i shouldn't be astonished at this perspective. But I am. </p>
<p>For what it is worth...my sons have been scrupulously honest about what they have written, and it has nothing to do with a fear of being caught.</p>
<p>"For what it is worth...my sons have been scrupulously honest about what they have written, and it has nothing to do with a fear of being caught."</p>
<p>wow... I am not talking about saying that you fed 50,000 starving kids in Africa. I mean saying that you did an activity for longer than you actually did. They have no way of verifying that.</p>
<p>actually in a guide book i read this summer, it says, and i quote "...if you had a summer job from 9 to 5, but your boss let you out around 3 every afternoon, it's expected for you to err on your side, and say you did a 45 hour week" i think that colleges take some things in applications with a grain of salt, and adding one hour or two isn't too bad. i havent applied, so no one look down your nose at me like whats been going on with some ppl! i'm just trying to defend the points of some of the 'attacked'</p>
<p>I don't really think schools care if you worked 35 or 45 hours a week. Nor do I think that they care if you did wrestling grades 9-12 or 10-12. Why would one bother amplifying something irrelevant? When you are working hard to carefully craft an application that is the best reflection of you, it also should be a best reflection of your personal understanding of what is honorable and true. </p>
<p>Look, I am sure plenty of kids "innocently" amplify. Not everyone does, and not everyone feels that it is "innocent"- that is all I am trying to say.</p>
<p>Trivial things in application or life don't matter much. A resume with just 3 EC or one with 7 EC (without something tangible to show) has no value.</p>
<p>Dear Jaman,
Why would you even want to add, lengthen, etc.? I see 2 scenarios here:
(1) You (meaning hypothetical student) have almost no ec's to your name & therefore feel compelled to make one or more up, to look good. The trap is what was mentioned on another post here: you may be quizzed then about that in some detail. God forbid that in an interview, for example, someone asks you to provide a name for the college, so that college can get a more in-depth perspective on the quality & scope of your contribution to the activity from a person who supervised it or accompanied it or received a service from you.
(2) You have enough ec's for your comfort level, but feel compelled to make them look even better to give yourself an edge over your unknown accomplished competition. That would be a never-ending battle. There will always be some world-class someone that was precocious at it as a child, etc., applying to the same school as you. So claiming for yourself an extra 6 months in _______ Club will never give you an edge over such stratospheric competition. As long as you show <em>some</em> consistency in <em>some</em> activity or activities (like continuing something in hs you did as a younger child, or doing one thing all 4 yrs. etc.), I don't think that adcoms will be getting out their calculators. We (my Mom & I) were told recently at a rep talk that colleges care much more about quality than quantity; they used phrases like "the depth & sincerity of your commitment," etc. I also read that it's better to write more about the individual activities than to provide long lists with no descriptions. Explaining your role, or what you liked about the activity, or how you've evolved with it, & so on, is what they claim they like to see.</p>
<p>I agree with Simba about how hard it is to maintain a lie. Personally, I think it supports my own self-interest more to tell the truth. If the college really & truly is going to reject me over "not enough" ec's or not enough of the "right" ec's, then probably my enrollment there is not meant to be, because maybe the college is putting a value on something that I have not valued myself in h.s. For example, if it really is so important to them that I have not participated in school sports for the last 4 yrs (because I'm not an athlete), or if the clubs I'm in are so small that there's no need or use for a "president" of any of them (we're all on the same level & contribute equally) -- then that's revealing about the priorities of the college, i.m.o. Maybe they're too superficial on the one hand, or rigid on the other hand.</p>