<p>My daughter mentioned that a person at her school joked to some kids about "exaggerating" on her college applications. I don't care about that or have any interest in the specifics, but it did make me wonder. How does a school know whether the info. on an application is true or not?</p>
<p>If someone completely fabricated community service, job experience, clubs, etc., how would a school know this given that they may get 50k+ applications? Aside from test scores and transcripts, much of the info. would not be convenient to verify. </p>
<p>To head off any possible negative comments - no, I do not recommend doing this.</p>
<p>M.y daughter is going to the same school as a girl from a neighboring hs, and I’m pretty sure she’s claiming a major award she wasn’t awarded. It just annoys me because I think one of her college awards ($$) was based in part on it. Her father also brags that she has a ‘full ride’ and I don’t think that’s true either, but I don’t know for sure.</p>
<p>A student signs a statement that everything on their application is honestly presented, and the consequence at any time (even after graduation) is that the admission and/or degree will be revoked. There have been some heavily publicized cases, like Adam Wheeler’s admission to Harvard, where the student’s application was full of lies and not discovered until much later.</p>
<p>These fabrications can come back to bite you in the future. There have been numerous news stories about professional who lost their jobs because of fabrications at the college level. </p>
<p>Not to mention, is it worth it to go around for the rest of your life worried that you’ll be exposed as a fraud? Maybe I have an over-active sense of guilt, but it would bother me even if I weren’t found out.</p>
<p>Anyone who’s worked in elite recruiting environments can tell you stories of how those who routinely embellish the facts are inevitably caught. It wrecks their lives. The higher you climb on falsehoods, the harder the landing.</p>
<p>This is not uncommon for someone to day this, sometimes about a school that doesn’t even offer merit aid. Lots of times this might be need-based aid that includes a lot of loans. Or might be merit that covers only tuition. </p>
<p>Lying on a college app is something that can’t ever be undone. The kid who does this will carry that burden inside themself for the rest of their life. I’m sure they will self-sabotage in some way or other eventually - even if they’re never caught directly it will have a lingering affect on their success and personal relationships. They are a fraud and they know it.</p>
<p>It will catch up in one way or another - of that I am quite certain.</p>
<p>I read the story of Adam Wheeler mentioned above. It seems that Harvard only caught him after repeated flamboyant, reckless plagiarism and fabrications. </p>
<p>^yeah, but he knew the warts on his soul were there. I think you’d have to be psychopathic not to be concerned about building on a foundation of sand like that. Sort of Poe’s ‘telltale heart’.</p>
<p>"This is not uncommon for someone to day this, sometimes about a school that doesn’t even offer merit aid. Lots of times this might be need-based aid that includes a lot of loans. Or might be merit that covers only tuition. "</p>
<p>I think she got a pretty good package (we did) but it just irks me that he’s bragging about it and I won’t say that we got a ‘full ride’ because we didn’t. Some of the money comes from the state, not the school. We also have a small outside scholarship, but are still a little way from ‘full ride’ which I consider to be ‘hey, show up with your toothbrush and the rest is on us.’ Not there yet, as I’ll be showing up with my checkbook.</p>
<p>Because of this exaggeration, however slight, I just don’t believe much that this guy says, so that makes me question the other award (no money, just an honor). Well, that he exaggerates and that I can’t find her name on the national list but she claims the honor.</p>
<p>Here are two ‘scams’ I am aware of where none of the players were ever found out. Not sure if it’s lying or cheating, but it strikes me as unethical.</p>
<p>In my small town where I grew up, we didn’t have a youth orchestra, but we had a ‘concert society’. It was very competitive and most kids didn’t get into the concert society which met monthly. Talented musicians had an opportunity to perform in the concert society. Mrs. Miller, a piano teacher, didn’t like that none of her students were ever selected for the concert society, so she “founded” the Miller Concert Series. Each of her students gave a recital in the Miller Concert Series. SHe printed programs and put a notice in the paper. I’m sure that the average twenty-something admissions officer never cottoned on to the fact that the COncert Society was the prestigious one and the Miller Concert Series was a joke. Is that lying? Cheating? It seems dishonest somehow.</p>
<p>In our current smallish city, there are THREE youth orchestras – one which draws from a wide radius and which is very hard to get into, one which is attached to the local university which is fairly low speed, and one which was ‘invented’ by a group of parents. The third group has a more “prestigious” name. They charge high tuition and have hired their own conductor. IT takes all comers. They have a concerto competition up to four times a year, depending on how many high school seniors they have. Each competition has four winners. (This way, every high school senior can claim to have won a concerto competition). They travel widely on expensive trips, so every student can claim to have toured Europe, etc. Again, I don’t think that an admissions officer in Maine or New Hampshire will necesarily know about the shenanigans taking place elsewhere far across the country. I’m sure that at some point, a kid from the fake youth orchestra probably was ranked higher than one from the serious youth orchestra. Where we live, a lot of churches will also hire some musicians and put on a music competition for all of the kids in their church, so that these kids can also claim to have won a concerto competition.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if this is cheating as much as parents rigging the system, but I suspect that this will get worse as admissions get even more competitive.</p>
<p>Momzie, re your post at 7:17…as a former youth symphony parent I am speechless. (Well, almost ) It truly boggles the mind that people would go so far. </p>
<p>I am hoping that at least all of this is done in order to provide musical outlets for kids who would otherwise not have one.</p>
<p>There are actually two youth symphonies in our area. (I often forget about the second one.) A kis at our HS once told me that his mother told him that the chair and section assignments at the one S participated in (the much better one) were heavily influenced by parents being “on the board.” That’s funny, I replied. There is no board. </p>
<p>In reality I know that this kid and his family were peeved because he wasn’t first chair. But really…</p>
<p>My friends daughter is an admissions counselor and I posed this very question, “How do you know what is real?” She feels that she can tell during an interview when the student/parent has embellished the list, but there is no way that they can check each item. When someone is asked about the accomplishment and has nothing to say, it’s a giveaway!</p>
<p>I think there is less lying and more exaggerating going on. The kids most likely have done the activities they list but have either stretched their role or the importance of the activity. Winning a writing competition at school when there were only a handful of participants - being the head of a club with only a few kids who participate, stuff like that.</p>
<p>For schools that require LORs, it’s a bit easier to tell the real achievers from the frauds, as the letters from teachers and counselor should match the student’s account of their achievements. I think the successful applicants to the elite schools are able to put together a coherent whole because all of the parts fit together as they should. The state colleges are another matter, of course, as they really don’t have any checks and balances, like recommendation letters. </p>
<p>My theory is that anything worth lying about is much more likely to be discovered. Nobody at a selective school cares if you were the president or just a member of the Science Club, so don’t bother lying about that. They don’t care if you had 100 or 200 hours of community service. Really, I suspect they don’t care if you were a member of some regional youth orchestra, either, if they’ve never heard of it. Don’t bother lying about this kind of stuff. If you lie about stuff they do care about, they are much more likely to find out. They will know who got major prizes, who went to TASP, who is actually a top athlete. They can check that stuff easily.</p>
<p>Agreed. Its kind of like the honor system on your taxes and deductions, although there is evidence that some people see it the other way. :)</p>
<p>There are incidents regularly in recruiting from law schools and business schools, and what happens is that the world is so “small” that the people who try to game the system with dishonesty or other misrepresentations end up creating a permanent reputation that is with them nearly forever in their preferred field.</p>
<p>In any case, you can’t let the bragging ignorant worry you too much. I had one soccer mom tell me her kid was in the 110th percentile in height. I pointed out that there wasn’t a 110th percentile, but she re-assured me that their doctor had stated it.</p>
) It truly boggles the mind that people would go so far. </p>