"Admissions: Worse Than Ever"

Parents Forum
1

<p>One parent's take on the college admissions process, available (free) here:
<a href="http://insidehighered.com/views/2005/07/11/henderson%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://insidehighered.com/views/2005/07/11/henderson&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>An excerpt:</p>

<p>"Our family last went through the admissions experience eight years ago when our older child applied to college. Although he ended up at one of the “hot” Ivy League universities, we sadly concluded that the selective college admissions process had no redeeming social value. You just lived through it, hoped your child survived unscathed, and prepared to hand over your bank account.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, it has gotten worse since then. More than ever, higher education seems like a commodity, as selective colleges market themselves shamelessly, increase applicant demand, and manage enrollments as if they were commercial enterprises. And, in response, an industry of expensive services and consultants to teach applicants how to game the admissions system is booming. Uncalculated is the toll on students, integrity and fundamental fairness."</p>

2

<p>The system is a mess. Everyone wants to go to the same schools. I guess the secret is to find a high quality school that is not on the radar screen.</p>

3

<p>When school was still in session two of my friend walked through the seventh grade corridor snickering to themselves "It's going to be IMPOSSIBLE for them to get into any colleges" -- it gets harder every year.</p>

4

<p>The reality is that the majority of colleges are begging for warm bodies. Many of them have quite fine faculty - the top universities have pumped out far more Ph.D.s in many areas than there are teaching places at top colleges and universities, and there are probably fewer than 75 major institutions in the country that don't accept more than 50% of their applicants. And the student bodies at many of these institutions are improving as well - the so-called top places say they are rejecting entire classes of students who are as academically talented as those they are accepting, and these students are going elsewhere, bumping everyone else down on the way. I can name a raft of such schools on major fundraising kicks which have new buildings, new programs, new faculty, and find themselves completely remaking themselves.</p>

<p>(The bigger question these days for most people, with the median family income in the U.S. at roughly $55k, is how to pay for it.)</p>

5

<p>The 7th graders have a better chance than kids do now. Numbers will be decling by then. But the demand for the handful of top colleges will most probably cotinue to rise because of the marketing, which has opend the idea of top schools to a much wider audience. But what else is new? The sesire for the best is a constant whether it's the best school, the best job or the best house. Most of us want what we perceive is best. </p>

<p>It's hard to read this board and think the perception of the ivies being the only "best" schools will change anytime soon. Kids from every corner of the Country and the world, with a tremendous range of stats and skills, want the same 8 colleges. Some are now down to accepting
single digits and the rest will soon follow. It's just incredibly sad. Realize how few end the college process satisfied, much less happy.</p>

6

<p>For some reason, I believe that this college admission's frenzy only affects a small number of families, and that a LOT of it is as self-imposed as entirely avoidable. </p>

<p>The overwhelming majority of students enjoy a very peaceful and pleasant application process. In contrast, one out of twenty families are victimized by a combination of excessive hope, complete delusion, filtered information, and from the nothing-but-an-Ivy syndrome. </p>

<p>I did not find the process to be particularly taxing or nerve-wracking. I only applied to five schools (1 rolling admission safety, 2 matches, 2 reaches) and I would have been happy to attend any of the schools. I was pretty convinced that I would be able to afford to attend any of the schools as well. Having a small number of schools, the process of selecting my final school was not very intense. I felt a bit sad to let go the schools that had been my first "good friends." </p>

<p>I realize that the process can be very different for others, but I'm still shocked to see how unrealistic or unmanageable most plans are ranging from the absence of any real safeties to a double digits applications via a gross misunderstanding of the admission numbers. I also see plans that are simply driven by prestige and exclusivity -as in applying to all 8 Ivies. </p>

<p>It does not HAVE to be that complicated!</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
Realize how few end the college process satisfied, much less happy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>zagat, honey, you are scaring yourself. 99% of US college applicants end the process thrilled to bits. In their sweaty little 17 year old hands, they have a letter that states that, come September, they are entitled to move away from those crazy people with poor boundary awareness (parents) to a Disney halfway house for the young and the restless where they can finally become the person of their dreams, teetotaller or Wild Man, as the case may be.</p>

8

<p>Cheers, I certainly see kids who feel as you describe. They hardly comprise 99%, and here on CC, it's a fairly small percentage that seem happy, and a small percentage that I saw in real life this year at a school a fairly recent book made seem like an oasis for the ivy bound..</p>

9

<p>There are approxiamtely 4 million US kids in the age bracket of these applicants, zagat. 1% of unhappy "Ivy-bound" candidates would be 40,000.</p>

<p>Besides, there is a big difference between disappointment and unhappy. I do not agree that the majority of CC applicants are unhappy. You must be reading another board.</p>

<p>The CC kids got incredible results this year. Some had disappointments, but there was not massive "unhappiness".</p>

<p>Ivy does not equal Happiness, in my book. That hasn't been my personal observation. </p>

<p>There are a million ways to reach nirvana. Ivy Or Bust would be the least appealing route. </p>

<p>So says me ;).</p>

10

<p>I would have to agree there are a lot of ways to be happy. I'd have to disagree that a huge number of kids on this board were happy with application results. Guess we're just readind different boards!</p>

11

<p>Great post, Xiggi.</p>

12

<p>This was the board that I read, specifically the following acceptances:</p>

<p>Full CC list by university:</p>

<p>evitajr1's D: Amherst
bogororo: Amherst</p>

<p>Mardad's D : Barnard
churchmusicmom's d: Barnard</p>

<p>janacoop's S: Baylor</p>

<p>jadedog's S: Beloit</p>

<p>momof2inca's S: Berkeley
Somemom's D: Berkeley</p>

<p>kinshasa's S: Boston University</p>

<p>Bettina's D: Brown
ellendhan's S: Brown
Momofthree's S: Brown</p>

<p>bklyndad's D: Bryn Mawr</p>

<p>Manyhat's S: CalTech
Toshimi's S: CalTech</p>

<p>texastaximom's S: Carleton</p>

<p>rbinaz's D: Chapman University</p>

<p>ohio_mom's S: U. Chicago
Idad's S: U. Chicago
pattykk's D: U. Chicago
chocoholic's D: U. Chicago</p>

<p>Nick12's D: Columbia
jaug1: Columbia
columbiamom2's S: Columbia
09Mom's D: Columbia</p>

<p>Midwesterner's S: Cornell
cnb's D: Cornell
overanxious mother's S: Cornell</p>

<p>cangel's D: Dartmouth
ChrisCuber: Dartmouth
Cubed: Dartmouth
Gracilisae: Dartmouth
jblackboy05: Dartmouth
SJMom2329's S: Dartmouth
Woodwork’s D: Dartmouth</p>

<p>mom09's S: Davidson</p>

<p>berurah's S: Duke
candace's S: Duke
Faline2's S: Duke
irishforever' S: Duke</p>

<p>wisconsin mom's S: Emory</p>

<p>onlyamom's S: Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering</p>

<p>tlaktan: Georgetown SFS
Redr002's D: Georgetown SFS</p>

<p>marite's S: Harvard
1moremom's S: Harvard
smomb's S: Harvard
Donemom's son: Harvard
princetonwannabe: Harvard
Bandit_TX's D (Lindseylujh): Harvard
cosar's S: Harvard</p>

<p>redbull298: Haverford</p>

<p>Susantm's S: Indiana University: Hutton Honors College/School of Music</p>

<p>Momof5Sons's S: Johns Hopkins University
tanman: Johns Hopkins University</p>

<p>overseas' S: Lawrence University
marmat103's S2: Lawrence</p>

<p>mom3son's S: Lehigh</p>

<p>kmom's S: Loyola College in Maryland</p>

<p>yermom's D: Middlebury</p>

<p>flstudent: MIT
Texas137's S: MIT
parental unit's S: MIT
mootmom's S: MIT
randomdad's S: MIT
givethemwings's D: MIT
56forceout's S: MIT</p>

<p>Elgin's D: Mount Holyoke</p>

<p>SoozieVT's D: NYU/Tisch/CAP21</p>

<p>sac's niece: Northwestern
OptimizerDad's D: Northwestern (graduate degree)</p>

<p>BassDad's D: Oberlin</p>

<p>Yulsie's S: Oxford University (Brasenose College)</p>

<p>ProudMomMD's D: UPenn
momsdream's S: UPenn
neobez: UPenn
Saintofme's D: UPenn
robyrm's S: UPenn
travelin's D: UPenn</p>

<p>Little Mother's D: Pomona
Kosuke: Pomona</p>

<p>simba's S: Princeton
chinaman's S: Princeton
22frets's D: Princeton
epiphany's D: Princeton
marmat103's S3: Princeton
Dizzymom's S: Princeton
Aludaughter: Princeton
Cookieson: Princeton</p>

<p>Tookie's S: Purdue</p>

<p>Whitneylm: Reed College
metermaid's D: Reed College</p>

<p>worried_mom's S: Rhode Island School of Design</p>

<p>lsandin's D: Rice
usmominuk's D: Rice
saramom's D: Rice</p>

<p>BMoyilan's S: Sarah Lawrence</p>

<p>yemaya13's sister: Smith</p>

<p>senhora<em>do</em>destino's S: Stanford
w3kil's S: Stanford</p>

<p>searchingavalon's D: Swarthmore
college_hopeful: Swarthmore
KYDad's D: Swarthmore</p>

<p>jmmom's S: Tulane
ctymomteacher's S: Tulane
NewHope33's D: Tulane
Mambowme's D: Tulane
Mom60's D: Tulane
Curioser's S: Tulane</p>

<p>daves123's S: United States Air Force Academy</p>

<p>momoftwins's D2: United States Military Academy at West Point</p>

<p>workingforblue's D: Univ. Alabama in Huntsville</p>

<p>Indy787: U of Arizona Honors College
jvd's D: U of Arizona Honors College</p>

<p>operamom's S: UCLA
UCaliGirl9: UCLA</p>

<p>karthikkito: UCSD</p>

<p>Tabbyzmom's S: University of Florida</p>

<p>momoftwins's D1: University of Illinois</p>

<p>Choff's S: University of Mary Washington</p>

<p>ctmom's D: U of Miami
my-3-sons's S: UMiami
bevie's S: U of Miami
wish<em>it</em>was_april's S: University of Miami</p>

<p>Frecklybeckly: University of Michigan
PSedrishMD's D: University of Michigan</p>

<p>jmmom's gS: University of New Hampshire</p>

<p>Jack's D: University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
Pittheels' D: University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill</p>

<p>LuckyMe's D: University of Puget Sound</p>

<p>Arizonamom's D: University of San Diego</p>

<p>ebayispayingforcollege's S: University of Southern California-School of Film and Television</p>

<p>txmomtoo's S: University of Texas at Austin
Islandmom's D: University of Texas (Austin) Plan II</p>

<p>firsttimemom's S: University of Vermont
wnydancemom's D: University of Vermont</p>

<p>Caseyatbat's D: University of Virginia</p>

<p>ezduzzit's D: University of Wisconsin</p>

<p>Lhasa's S: Valparaiso University</p>

<p>fazzled1's D: Vanderbilt
Bridie's S: Vanderbilt</p>

<p>GK50's D: Vassar</p>

<p>pamvanw's S : Virginia Tech</p>

<p>MarylandMom's D: Wake Forest
Onedown3togo: Wake Forest</p>

<p>kdos's S: Washington University in St. Louis
Runnersmom's S: Washington University in St. Louis</p>

<p>Elizabeth22: Wellesley College</p>

<p>anothersuticase: Wesleyan University
EconProf's D: Wesleyan Univeristy</p>

<p>mmaah's S: Whitman
TwoTimer's D: Whitman
noseemom's S: Whitman</p>

<p>Clayleas's D: Williams</p>

<p>Lp75's D: Yale
klc's S: Yale
jamimom's S: Yale</p>

<p>SBmom's D: one of CC's "top LACs"</p>

<p>Under my definition of "happy", this list would qualify as an embarrassment of riches.</p>

13

<p>I agree that this article shows that college admission has gotten out of hand for some parents and students (as does the other article discussed on the Parents Board about essay writing camps). </p>

<p>I would like others' opinions on the following question: If top colleges are receiving so many applicants that only 10-15% can be admitted, what would be the fairest and best basis for admissions decisions, which would also discourage the craziness discussed in these articles?</p>

<p>I don't have an answer for this - I hope to hear people's ideas.</p>

14

<p>Yes, but you forgot to list Andi's son.........</p>

15

<p>eventually, this college craze will die out. Not like die out like no one will care about college anymore, yet it will be so crazy that it will be daily life and people will not even notice the competitiveness. Eventually, everyone will be used to this mess our competitive society made</p>

16

<p>Right. There were 157 (?) ecstatic CC applicants. </p>

<p>andison was truly and deservedly beyond disappointed. He was unhappy. </p>

<p>Still, to my point, his unhappiness represents LESS than 1%.</p>

17

<p>Cheers, I think you're totally missing the point. The happy kids tend to be the ones where parents were heavily involved and invited realistic expectations. You're also seeing parent reaction on the particular board you sight, not that of their children. May I suggest you go on the the actual schools boards and see a whole different picture? Or go to your local high school and gauge feelings in April?</p>

18

<p>No, Cheers, to my view Andison represented a situation that should never have happened -- like the case of a child starving amidst an embarrassment of riches. Because the situation has gotton so over-the-top competitive that either
(a) a deserving kid who by all rights should have been admitted at several of his choices got in nowhere , or
(b) a kid who was so blinded by the chase for prestige that he totally misjudged his prospects and failed to take the basic precautions needed to ensure that he would have at least one viable choice in the end.</p>

<p>I honestly don't know if was a case of (a) - crowded out, or (b) - blinded by the hype, or a little bit of both, because I wasn't following the situation that closely - I don't know (or recall) what schools he chose to apply to - or left off his list. But the point is that our CC admission stats only show that this is a place that attracts the well-informed and savvy. But it doesn't really change the fact that the competition has gotten out of hand. Even the fact that we spend so much time here debating "chances" and discussing strategy is indicative of a problem. Because whatever the numbers of happy admittees, there should not be a kid with the credentials of Andi's son (strong grades, test scores, + musical talent), stuck with only rejection letters in the spring.</p>

19

<p>Gosh, thanks zagat. </p>

<p>We now live overseas. 'April' is a total non-event. Before that, however, I had a terrific picture of the results of our local private and public midwestern high schools. The elite private school routinely sent 20 to 25% to Ivy/WASP schools, the top public sent 12 to 15%. Year in, year out--stretching back to when I graduated. My S's classmates were thrilled with their results, though they might have had disappointments here and there. For example, one of the top students got into Princeton and yale but not Harvard. Incredibly, she WAS disappointed--but not "unhappy". She is at Yale.</p>

<p>I am also familiar with the acceptance stories/rates of many of the private schools in Manhattan, via my friends.</p>

<p>I stick by my position. 99% of the kids are "happy" with the results.</p>

<p>You are so right, calmom, andison should not have had to endure that situation. However, it was a one-off and ought not serve to guage the success of next year's applicant's (zagat's S or D et al). Knowing the facts, I'd say the high school administration not only dropped the ball on andison, they stuffed it down the chute for him.</p>

<p>I have served on the Board of Trustees for private schools. Normally, the administration tries to be very attentive to the admission process for each and every student. The degree of passion would surprise most parents. Unfortunately, the administration at andison's school did not pay attention to andison's application, perhaps due to a number of staff changes. In any case, andi and andison have accepted the curve ball with real grace.</p>

<p>Everyone at CC is rooting for him to hit that curve ball out of the park, eh?</p>

20

<p>Having been around for three seasons of admissions on CC, I have to agree that there have been VERY few disappointments and an extremely long list of successful candidates. There were cases of ED deceptions, but most were reversed later in the RD rounds. It is obvious that not everyone gained admissions at their first choices, but most everyone ended up at a wonderful college. There is also something to remember: none of us see the complete pool of application and none of us, except the candidate himself or herself KNOW what really happened. On CC most "r</p>