Admissions...

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Richmond
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<p>UR Admissions:</p>

<p>Thank you for your considered response to my November 27th questions.</p>

<p>A few more more quick followups:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Do most Richmond's althleic preferences (applications endorsed by a varsity coach) come from ED1, ED2 or the regular admissions cycle?</p></li>
<li><p>What would be your estimate of the percent of all ED1 aceptances that will be athletic preferences?</p></li>
<li><p>What would be your estimate of the percent of all ED1 acceptances that will be a son or daughter of a Richmond alum?</p></li>
<li><p>What day will the ED1 decision letters be mailed out? [My guess is Monday- Dec 10th.] </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thanks again. </p>

<p>otis.</p>

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<p>Hi Gang--</p>

<p>I've been out of town. Sorry to be slow to respond, but you've got Spider05 on the line so he's darn good and awfully helpful if you ask me. UR just finished a hard-fought game against Appalachian State in the national semi-finals and came out on the short end unfortunately. But I'm so proud of this team! </p>

<p>OK, many questions out there tonight. </p>

<p>No charge for sporting events (unless you are talking about national semi-final games :) .</p>

<p>University-run dining services--run entirely by the University although we do have a Starbucks coffee shop in the library and Freshens yogurt in the Commons. But other than that, its all our own stuff. And it is really good!</p>

<p>I'm bummed that your tour missed the Weinstein Center! It is free to students (and staff--not that I'm very faithful about using it) and members of the community can join. It is a spectacular facility! Next time you visit, be sure to ask your tour guide to go there. It is attached to the Robins Center. Yes, there is a pool. Since the renovation is has suddenly become not just a pool, but a natatorium! I'm not sure what the difference is, but it sure sounds good, huh? Our women's swimming team is great--3 swimmers have qualified for the Olympic trials this year. I think the natatorium distinction actually means a pool with permanent seating. Which is a slight stretch. But it is a very good facility no matter what it is called! </p>

<p>ED questions galore--</p>

<p>As for percentages of ED admits who've received athletic consideration, I'm sorry that I can't really discuss that. Some of the coaches encourage prospects to apply ED, others don't. Now that I've gotten a nice compliment for being refreshingly honest and helpful, its hard to tell you that we don't release that sort of info to the public. </p>

<p>Again, I was away from the office for 3 days this week when a lot of the ED stuff was getting wrapped up so the legacy question is not something I have data on. But there are certainly a number of legacies who apply early--percentage wise I don't think it would be particularly large. Naturally, legacies do have some advantages in the process, but by no means is their admission a fait accompli. </p>

<p>We don't usually tell people when the letters are mailed because then they start calling to complain that the mail isn't coming fast enough and we can't control the postal service. Truth is sometimes the best laid plans to get the decisions out on a certain day sometimes get derailed for a wide variety of reasons. ED applicants should hear from us by the 15th which means we mail a few days ahead of that. </p>

<p>Someone else in this thread asked a different legacy question. For the most part we consider legacies most strongly by way of parents and siblings. If there are multiple generations of course we look at that too. </p>

<p>It is WAY past my bed-time. . . . Go Spiders!</p>

<p>UR Admissions</p>

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<p>Thanks ... what dedication. Another illustration of why this particular forum of CC is so valuable and informative and less opinionated. Makes you wanna love those Spiders whether one can afford or matriculate there or not.</p>

<p>What a running back you had this year. Is he Hightower? Looked plenty good against NH, JMU, Delaware on TV.</p>

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<p>whistle, Tim was not only an amazing running back, but also a fantastic ambassador for the University. That was one of the best parts of the school for me, is that the star athletes are also members of your business school group working on building a business plan from scratch, or they're the people you're hanging out with on the weekends. They were students too and they weren't any different than the other students.</p>

<p>The great thing about our team is that 17 of the starters were freshmen or sophomores. We should have at least two more very strong years, which will hopefully lead into our new home in 2010.</p>

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<p>Yea, those are called "student athletes." A real rarity on too many campuses these days. </p>

<p>What's the problem/holdup on the stadium project?</p>

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<p>Whistlepig,</p>

<p>The fitness center at Richmond is amazing. It's too bad you missed it on your tour, but it is brand new, huge, and has about anything you could imagine.</p>

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<p>"student athletes" </p>

<p>Actually the kids I know that are on sport teams at Ivy & Patriot Conference schools are infact "student athletes" in every sense of the term. </p>

<p>My guess is that URichmond would like very much to be invited to become a member of the Patriot League so that it may play against like size schools that it desires to be compared as academic peers (i.e. Colgate, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Lehigh, American & Navy). </p>

<p>The Alantic 10 Conference to which URichmond is currently a member is composed of schools to which Richmond shares little in common including geography (UDayton, Duquesne University, Fordham University, George Washington University, La Salle, UMass, University of North Carolina at Charlotte, Rhode Island, Richmond, St. Bonaventure, Saint Joseph's University, Saint Louis University, Temple, and Xavier).</p>

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<p>otis, I would stop affiliating myself with UR if we joined the Patriot League. Nothing against those schools, but UR's athletics are on a different level than the schools that compete in that conference. In fact, one of the biggest controversies in former President Cooper's tenure was his desire to move the football team to the non-scholarship Patriot League. His rationale was that the football team couldn't compete in the A-10 (the best I-AA or FCS conference). The following year, we won the A-10 and this year we made the semi-finals of the playoffs. </p>

<p>I am pretty sure that my feelings reflect those of a large majority of alumni concerning our conference affiliation. It would be a real step down for the university athletically speaking.</p>

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<p>Whistle, money has been raised for the stadium, but there is a lot of redtape involved, concerning neighbors and the City of Richmond. Hopefully things will get a move on before too long, as I've really not been pleased with my donation to the stadium being held in a bank for the past year.</p>

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<p>Intentionally deleted</p>

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<p>This is an interesting discussion, and I'd like to weigh in a little. I used to think that these were important issues. And as many a president has learned through hard knocks, they may be. Many people identify with an institution through the window of the athletic program. Often, our mere affiliation can be evidence that we like what we see. </p>

<p>So my own observation is that one needs to be doggone careful about what some at least, might see as a less important issue, even frivolous. Conversely, the institution rarely sinks or swims because of who its football teams are playing. I concur that from an academic/overall educational perspective, the Patriot League makes more "sense." But this has nothing to do with what makes "sense." It's emotive, perceptual stuff and in the end any change would requiring the degree to which that change would sufficiently irritate or potentially even disenfranchise those who embrace their beloved institutions. It's all politics and perception, imo. Who gives a rat's fanny if one is playing Duquesne or Dayton or Holy Cross or the Rams of Rhode Island or Bucknell or Lehigh or ... </p>

<p>Aside from ego and preconceived notion, it makes not one meaningful lick of difference.</p>

<p>btw, Bucknell gives no atletic $$ to any sport aside from men's and women's hoops. And as we're seeing minus the big Johnny Bull, it doesn't make any impact one way or the other. Their bball thing was a function of X, with X in this case being a heckuva player from Great Britain and adequate supporting cast.</p>

<p>So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we can and often do get invested in this relative silliness, but I'm betting the ranch Richmond's is a money losing proposition, and there are whole bunch of Patriot Leaguers who would nail a whole bunch of Atlantic 10 teams in a whole bunch of sports. And I'm not advocating the change would be good. See my earlier waxings.</p>

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<p>Spiders05:</p>

<p>Reasonable persons can disagree concernig what athletic association URichmond should have. </p>

<p>You will agree however that all colleges are in part defined by their athletic associations and the competitions in which they engage.</p>

<p>The Patriot League permits member institutions to offer athletic scholarships in all sports except football thereby allowing its member institutions to be competitive with peer institutions and other mid majors and 2A football schools [see Bucknell (a/k/a "Buckhell" & Lehigh men's basketball, Buckhell national championship women rowers, etc.].</p>

<p>You have a greater understanding of the athletic history of URichmond but I would venture a guess that over the years Colgate, Holy Cross & Lehigh have more wins than losses in football against URichmond. If my guess is correct then I do not believe that your position that Patriot membership would destroy the URichmond football team.</p>

<p>The single greatest advantage for Richmond's move to the Patriot League (if it would accept URichmond) would be to facilitate URichmond in scheduling games with academic peer schools in the Patriot league teams and the great academic schools in the Ivy League.</p>

<p>A question to you and others: would you rather have URichmond play Ivy & Patriot schools- Harvard, Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, UPenn, Princeton University, University, Columbia University, Colgate, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Buckhell, Lehigh, American & Navy</p>

<p>or </p>

<p>in football against Colonial Athletic Association schools Delaware, Hofstra, James Madison, Maine, UMass, New Hampshire, Northeastern, Rhode Island, Towson, Villanova, and William and Mary and basketball against A10 institutions UDayton, Duquesne University, Fordham University, George Washington University, La Salle, UMass, University of North Carolina at Charlotte, Rhode Island, Richmond, St. Bonaventure, Saint Joseph's University, Saint Louis University, Temple, and Xavier?</p>

<p>Of the aforementioned Colonial Athletic Association & A10 schools only 'Nova & W&M are generally considered to be URichmond's "academic peer schools".</p>

<p>In my opinion Richmond's academic reputation would be bolstered more by kicking some Crimson butt at Harvard Stadium than by defeating the mighty University of Maine at Orono, Maine.</p>

<p>Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue.</p>

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<p>Otis, if you'd like to start a new thread and post the above in the entirity, I'd be more than happy to share my thoughts, but I don't want to hijack this thread any longer. Quickly though, UR has an all-time winning record versus the three above schools that you mentioned in football. That doesn't speak well for the PL, as UR only won 43.7% of games entering this season.</p>

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<p>Spiders05:</p>

<p>Since my above 12-12-2007 post (in this thread) expressing an opinion that URichmond should attempt to schedule "peer academic schools" for football & basketball and should investigate seeking membership in the Patriot League I have had an opportunity to better familarise myself with URichmond's historic football opponents.</p>

<p>It is surprising that URichmond has never played against the the majority of Ivy teams and has never played with any regularity the Patriot League schools. </p>

<p>According to its 2005 URichmond Football Media Guide URichmond does not have an overall winning record in football games with either Ivy or the Patriot League schools [Patriot: 5 wins -11 losses -1 tie and Ivy: 4 wins -4 losses]. Also surprising is that despite having played football since 1881 URichmond has never played Ivy members Columbia University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, or Yale.</p>

<p>Since each college is in part defined by its athletic association and the schools which they play against, I hope that URichmond President Ayres directs Athletic Director Jim Miller to attempt to schedule games with the Ivy & Patriot League schools and explore whether the Patriot League would possibly accept URichmond as a member. The attractiveness of membership in the Patriot League is that the Patriot & Ivy conferences have cross scheduling agreements.</p>

<p>URichmond's academic reputation would be bolstered more by kicking some Crimson butt at Harvard Stadium than by defeating the mighty University of Maine at Orono, Maine. </p>

<p>Does anyone agree? Thanks.</p>

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<p>As I said, I really don't think it'll make a lick of difference aside from assuaging some egos. That's essentially the stuff of presidential cocktail parties, imo. </p>

<p>I'm not at all surprised about the virtual lack of history in playing Ivies or Patriot Leaguers. Richmond is a relative "newcomer" to those elite, name schools. As I've noted before, I'm personally persuaded that for a variety of reasons, it has already surpassed several and will relatively soon surpass a good many of the others in reputation and resources. But unlike the Bucknells, Lehighs, Colgates, Lafayettes, and all of the Ivies, it's had a much longer way to come over the past 30 or 40 seasons, which in higher ed history, is the blink of an eye. So historically, but not presently, Richmond vs. most of these others was comparing apples and oranges. Today it's a real plum. ;)</p>

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<p>Otis, as Whitle referrenced, UR is a completely different university today than it was 30-40 years ago (post Robins gift). Therefore, it's not really surprising that they haven't competed against those schools. Additionally, like I previously commented, why would UR choose to leave the best I-AA (FCS if you'd like) conference to play lesser competition? Additionally, if the school went from a scholarship league, to a non-scholarship league, it would have a choice to make. It would either have to drop 65+- women's scholarships or it would have to fully fund current men's sports and then add additional sports to compensate for the loss of football scholarships. The first choice completely wrecks the athletic department and the second option costs a lot of money to fund the new sports. Secondly, the PL would only take UR as a full member, meaning that our flagship sport, basketball, would have to leave the A-10, which is considered as one of the top eight conferences in basketball (currerntly ranked #8 by Ken Pom) and join a conference ranked #22. Additionally, up until Bucknell's win in the tourney a couple of years ago, the PL had never won a game in the NCAA tournament, whereas the A10 annually has multiple teams in the tournament and just a few years back had two teams in the Elite Eight. Sorry, but that's just not a move I, or many alumni would like to make. </p>

<p>I would like our athletics to play the best competition it can in conference, just as I would like our academics to strive to be the best they can be. I would like our athletics to act as a window into our university and playing on the biggest stage possible is the best way to accomplish that. I don't think anyone looks at a UR/Towson football game and thinks about the academic differences between the two universities, just as I don't think that anyone bases their opinion on the academics of FSU when they play Duke in football. </p>

<p>I'm very familiar with the Ivies and the benefits of affiliation with them, but I don't think that the (nationally lacking) recognition of the PL member schools as bastions for academic excellence is a worthy tradeoff of playing nationally known teams week in, week out and the name recognition that comes with competiting on a national scale, rather than for just conference titles. I'm fine with playing those schools out of conference occasionally, but I think games against Duke, UVA and Vandy, which we have played and continue to play, achieve the results you desire in the end.</p>

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<p>Spiders ... gotta agree with your point of the Patriot League. Imo, while they are all fine schools, there is little benefit either academically or athletically for UR to play these schools ... one exception. Navy. And of course, they don't play Patriot League football. Navy, and the other major Service Academies (Army, AF) would be great games for UR. And you're on the money about trading away the likes of Vandy, UVA, Duke, maybe Wake, Furman and a few others. Delaware's a great game for them. UNH in recent years, but not a lot of sizzle despite UNH's fine recent history. So what. JMU might make some local sense, I'm not sure. </p>

<p>Your point in general has merit, imo. Especially re: hoops. That would be a significant downer, imo. There just is little pizazz in PL basketball or football. There simply would be no benefit to joining a Patriot league aside from lessening travel costs/time/agony with modest return. Aside from Holy Cross alums, who gives a rat's fanny about HC football. And I'm only using them rhetorically. It's a fine place, for sure.</p>

<p>I'm not sure I concur with your UR/Towson ... FSU/Duke comparison. Towson is a most strange opponent for UR. Duke/FSU may be a mismatch, but not so "strange." And as Bowden petrifies, it may be less and less of a mismatch. :eek:</p>

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<p>Otis, if it makes you feel any better, I have heard that UR is playing PL member Georgetown next fall in football. I don't expect it to be much of a game, but I figured the news was very timely for this conversation.</p>

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<p>UR Admissions:</p>

<p>A few more quick questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Has there been any final counts on the Early Decision 1 applications--number of applications received, number of applicants accepted, acceptance rate, ED1 profile, how this years ED1 class (the Class of 2012) compares to the ED1 Class of 2011, what percentage of the class of 2012 do you estimate that the ED1 acceptances will represent?</p></li>
<li><p>Does URichmond invite the students accepted in ED1 to a reception for accepted students? if so when? </p></li>
<li><p>How are the numbers for the ED2 class shaping up? Does it appear that the number of ED2 applications will be up from the Class of 2011? What percentage of the class of 2012 do you estimate that the ED2 acceptances will represent?</p></li>
<li><p>How are the numbers for the regular admissions class shaping up? Does it appear that the number of applications will be up from the Class of 2011?</p></li>
<li><p>What schools do you believe that URichmond competes for students? Have those competing schools changed over the past 5 years?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck in what must be a very interesting yet stressful process of reviewing applications.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>otis</p>

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<p>Hi Otis--</p>

<p>There were 285 students who applied ED round I. We admitted 171 of them. It is too soon to say how many ED2's there will be. When it is all said and done, we think about 30% of the first year class (predicted size of 750) will be out of ED, which is the highest percentage ever (at least in the 18 years I've been here, so I'm guessing that means "ever" to most of the readers of this forum!). The percentage will be higher in part because the hoped-for class size is lower, not just because we took a few more early. </p>

<p>Our big admitted student open house day will be Saturday, April 19 and we hope that a huge group of people will be there including many of our lovely ED students! Invitations will be sent in the spring. There is a Facebook group called "Richmond 2012" that has started of our ED admits (and some others who are still just considering UR) and I think that some of those students are planning to get together in their hometowns between now and April. So maybe there will be other ways for you to meet each other before our office gets around to our big party. Admitted students will have several other visit options in April as well, so if the 19th doesn't work for your family, trust me, we'll be happy to see you any other day. The only BAD day in April will be Saturday, April 12. We are inaugurating a new president that day (YEAH!!!) and it is alumni weekend, so there won't be any admission office programming that day. </p>

<p>So far for regular decision the applicant pool is running way ahead of the same date last year so we are alternately thrilled and worried about how we'll get all the work done. But it is too soon to give firm numbers. It is certainly possible that people are just applying earlier and that it won't necessarily amount to a large increase, but again, you never know till it's all over! </p>

<p>In the last five years our overlaps are probably pretty consistent. Over the last 15 they have changed and now include more Boston College's, Notre Dames and Georgetowns than once upon a time. Our biggest overlaps have been Virginia, Willam and Mary and Wake Forest for a very long time. </p>

<p>Hope that covers what you are after--</p>

<p>TGIF!</p>

<p>UR Admissions</p>